Davanji84 said:

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I don't have direct access to their policy and training material so I can't cite specific references.

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Of course you dont, but you will post on F16 like you are on the force.

Davanji84 said:

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As you stated in your post above, my sincere hope is that all parties caught in those ripples find peace. I also pray that cooler heads prevail across this country and both sides use far better judgment moving forward. These types of deaths are completely preventable.

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You hope paid agitators affiliated with ANTFA find peace? You are blind, this has been going on since April, wake up.

Davanji84 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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He certainly had not placed himself in an "L" position to that vehicle at the critical moment where the woman panicked and tried to flee the situation.

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She was not panicked in the video as she watched the officer. She appeared more determined to me. Her mouth was not agape. Her eyes were not darting nervously around as if she was trying to assess her situation. She did not exhibit any of the body language of fright or panic, which is common when people are in fear.

You go through enough trials, easy to read both witnesses and jury if applicable.

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I believe the panic occurred when the other officer walked rapidly up to the driver side door and demanded that she remove herself from the vehicle. The situation was rapidly escalating and that's when she decided it was time to flee.

Not basing my thoughts on any experience other than what it appeared I was seeing in the videos. I do agree she appeared very collected when the shooting officer initially walked by the driver side door.

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I dont think any of this is contested. She was about to face consequences for blocking traffic and impeding law enforcement. Of course she wants to flee and face zero consequences, like everyone else who breaks the law. She was about as smug as one can be just 45 seconds prior.

If she turns off the vehicle and complies, she is likely out of jail within 24 hours (without bail, knowing how Minneapolis is) AND gets her tik tok clout that she so desperately craved.

That's not what she chose to do. She reversed the car and then gunned it forward, with a LEO in front of her vehicle with a gun pointed at her. Poor choice.

Told a defense attorney once, who was getting sassy with me while I was on the witness stand. It's not what you know, its what you can prove. Prove I was the one who did what your client said I did. Or this whole back and forth is wasting tax payers time. Judge wasn't happy the jurors were chuckling.

aggiehawg said:

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That's fine. I'm older than you and have had different life experiences and quite far different training having attended a Socratic method law school. Observational skills, remove emotion, watch the witness as every body has some tells that contradict their words. Eye aversion, looking up or looking down before answering a question, licking their lips, swallowing deeply for instance. Know what else is a sign of lying? Too much embellishment with details that really are not relevant to answering a question. (Not directed at you as I was actually thinking about how I could tell Comey was lying through his teeth during Congressional sworn testimony.)

But allow me one final thought between you and I. Based on the videos we have seen thus far, I would have zero problem writing a closing argument to a jury, to get this officer acquitted should he be charged and actually went to trial. (Which I doubt will happen.) Now you could maybe chalk that up to being a good trial attorney but the secret here is that both the facts and the law are on the side of the officer. That's just the way it is.

Have a pleasant evening. I'm going to have a dirty vodka martini myself.

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Enjoy and thanks very much. Same to you.

I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

AJ02 said:

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I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

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Ummm...

He didn't just "stand there".

She gunned it and he had a second or 2 to make a decision.

flown-the-coop said:

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Libs simultaneously think Mengele was pure evil but cheer abortion and genetic modification of embryos, discard of embryos deemed non viable.

They live a lie. And seem to have to particular issue with that. In fact, many demand you believe their lies or you a nazi racist fascist.

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In vitro fertilization = Josef Mengele. I'm learnding so much.

94chem said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Libs simultaneously think Mengele was pure evil but cheer abortion and genetic modification of embryos, discard of embryos deemed non viable.

They live a lie. And seem to have to particular issue with that. In fact, many demand you believe their lies or you a nazi racist fascist.

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In vitro fertilization = Josef Mengele. I'm learnding so much.

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Well, *****..

The Somalians set up a Learnding Center in addition to the Learing Center.

aggiehawg said:

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Any senseless death is a tragedy because it didn't have to happen. But people have free will to make choices.

Some of those choices turn out to be unwise ones as her actions were here. Prayers for her children as well as for the officer and his family as they piece their lives back together. May they find some peace.

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Well said.

94chem said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Libs simultaneously think Mengele was pure evil but cheer abortion and genetic modification of embryos, discard of embryos deemed non viable.

They live a lie. And seem to have to particular issue with that. In fact, many demand you believe their lies or you a nazi racist fascist.

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In vitro fertilization = Josef Mengele. I'm learnding so much.

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Modification of embryos and selective termination based on genetic testing =/= in vitro.

My little test tube baby turns 16 on Wednesday. We are very blessed. But some of the stuff libs push goes way beyond assisting couples having a baby.

Ag with kids said:

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AJ02 said:

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I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

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Ummm...

He didn't just "stand there".

She gunned it and he had a second or 2 to make a decision.

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You misunderstood the point I was making. I was saying the officer was valid for using deadly force, and shouldn't have just stood there and let her run him down, like the leftists seem to think he should've done.

Ag with kids said:

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94chem said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Libs simultaneously think Mengele was pure evil but cheer abortion and genetic modification of embryos, discard of embryos deemed non viable.

They live a lie. And seem to have to particular issue with that. In fact, many demand you believe their lies or you a nazi racist fascist.

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In vitro fertilization = Josef Mengele. I'm learnding so much.

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Well, *****..

The Somalians set up a Learnding Center in addition to the Learing Center.

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https://share.google/xCU6GBu2fI86whFWX

AJ02 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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AJ02 said:

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I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

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Ummm...

He didn't just "stand there".

She gunned it and he had a second or 2 to make a decision.

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You misunderstood the point I was making. I was saying the officer was valid for using deadly force, and shouldn't have just stood there and let her run him down, like the leftists seem to think he should've done.

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Ah...

Mea culpa

AJ02 said:

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I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

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Take a step to the left when she goes in reverse like any normal human would do. If you're just going by the book he violated their own policy and procedure. There's really no argument its clearly stated in black and white. Of course there's always a human element.

Geminiv said:

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AJ02 said:

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I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

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Take a step to the left when she goes in reverse like any normal human would do. If you're just going by the book he violated their own policy and procedure. There's really no argument its clearly stated in black and white. Of course there's always a human element.

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If officer takes a step left he would have been aligned with the Honda logo on her grill.

And you need to watch again at normal speed. Average person types 40 to 60 WPM. The entirety of the walking from middle front of Honda to being struck and discharging weapon is about 2 to 3 seconds… or the time it takes the average person to right "good shoot".

Geminiv said:

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AJ02 said:

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I don't think she intended to run over a cop. I do think she got in over her head, was focusing on the cop at her door, and probably didn't even notice the one in front of her car when she floored it.

That said, doesn't mean the cop in front of her car should've just stood there and let her run him down either.

She and her wife kept escalating the situation, so I have zero sympathy for anyone other than the dog in the backseat and the officer who now has to deal with these psychopath leftists trying to destroy his life.

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Take a step to the left when she goes in reverse like any normal human would do. If you're just going by the book he violated their own policy and procedure. There's really no argument its clearly stated in black and white. Of course there's always a human element.

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Link us the actual internal policy of that specific agency

THIS was a tragedy. There are many more like it that go basically unreported or just ignored by the media and tens of millions of usefull idiots. They are ultimate hypocrites.



What happened in MN should be nothing more than a lesson to your children to not be absolute effing idiots.

Hill08 said:

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I keep hearing the death of this idiot is a tragedy. Why? She tried to kill a federal agent. I actually am happy people like this leave this earth. IMO, if you attempt to murder someone, your time is up.

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AGREED

the only way this stops is when the terrorists realize there are consequences to their actions.

ask Hamas.

Hill08 said:

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I keep hearing the death of this idiot is a tragedy. Why? She tried to kill a federal agent. I actually am happy people like this leave this earth. IMO, if you attempt to murder someone, your time is up.

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Even giving the benefit of the doubt, at best, this was a panicked, mentally unstable woman who may have not been ready for the real life implications and consequences of the online battles she had been fighting. Her psycho "partner" clearly thought it was a game and could not wait to send video to friends and social media showing how "brave" and heroic" they were. It is possible she is just a dumb woman who panicked and thought she could high tail it out of there without hurting anyone, or that the officer would get out of the way.

But even if giving her MAX benefit of the doubt...it still isn't even close to any kind of "tragedy" and was a 100% justified shooting.

Also, folks who think this was a tragedy, need to go watch the shooting of Daniel Shaver. That is the worst one (that we know about) in any of our lifetimes. And no one cared, bc he was just a normal white dude and there were no political points to be scored.

Quote:

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Also, folks who think this was a tragedy, need to go watch the shooting of Daniel Shaver. That is the worst one (that we know about) in any of our lifetimes. And no one cared, bc he was just a normal white dude and there were no political points to be scored.

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Glad you brought up Shaver as that was about as bad of a shoot as it gets for law enforcement. The second worse was Officer Michael Noor's shooting of the Aussie-American woman in Minneapolis several years back. Noor served about 5 years before being released on a technicality. (Prosecution screwed up.)

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Also, folks who think this was a tragedy, need to go watch the shooting of Daniel Shaver. That is the worst one (that we know about) in any of our lifetimes. And no one cared, bc he was just a normal white dude and there were no political points to be scored.

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Glad you brought up Shaver as that was about as bad of a shoot as it gets for law enforcement. The second worse was Officer Michael Mohammad Noor's shooting of the Aussie-American woman in Minneapolis several years back. Noor served about 5 years before being released on a technicality. (Prosecution screwed up.)

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I had to go look this up. He was a Muslim and immigrant from... you guessed it... SOMALIA!

I had to research as I was not familiar. To tease your spidey senses, was this a precursor to the George Floyd craziness? Seems like they were on the lookout for payback over Noor's conviction here. See how the ACLU presents this at the time:

https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/what-officer-noors-conviction-says-about-racism

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What Officer Noor's Conviction Says About Racism in America

May 3, 2019
On Tuesday, April 30, a Minnesota jury convicted police officer Mohamed Noor of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter for shooting and killing Justine Damond, a white Australian woman.

---snip---
Damond had called 9-1-1 to report a possible sexual assault near her apartment and then approached Noor's squad car when he and his partner responded to the call. Noor killed Damond, and he deserved to be found guilty. His decision to shoot and kill an unarmed person without warning, apparently because her presence next to his squad car surprised him, is indefensible. But if the races of Noor and Damond had been reversed, Noor might well have gotten away with murder.

The racial aspect of this case speaks volumes about criminal justice and criminal injustice in America today. Noor, who is Black, Muslim, and a Somali immigrant, is believed to be the only police officer in Minnesota ever to have been convicted for killing someone while on duty.

At a crucial moment in the trial, Noor testified that he reacted to Damond as "the threat." Prosecutors responded byasking him, "The whole blonde hair, pink t-shirt is a threat to you?" This line of questioning was in part about the legal standard required to convict. Under Graham v. Connor, a police officer can use force including lethal force if a reasonable officer on the scene would consider the level of force to be "objectively reasonable," not whether the use of force was actually necessary in light of the various tactics and alternatives available to the officer at the time. Because this standard is so elastic, it is often very difficult to show that an officer violated it.

But the way the question was framed also evokes a long history of racist fears and tropes of Black male aggression against white women. In art, popular culture, and news coverage, from Birth of a Nation to Gone with the Wind to countless episodes of COPS, white women have long been portrayed as innocent victims and symbols of so-called "white purity" who need to be saved from racistly presupposed savagery of angry, violent Black men.

These racist ideas are not limited to the movie theater and TV screen. They have also infected our politics.

---snip---

Naming these racist tropes, it's difficult to believe that the prosecutors, when preparing their questions, didn't realize they were invoking them. Their "blonde hair, pink t-shirt" question is particularly inflammatory, as it depends on the assumption that Justine Damond's blonde hair signified a lack of dangerousness. Indeed, Damond blonde, blue eyed, white is the ideal victim by which prosecutors could take advantage of racist tropes to secure a conviction of Noor.

This case is the exception, and it spotlights the rule: Most victims of police violence have racism working against them, not in their favor.

---snip---

Unfortunately, if Noor's prosecution tells us anything, it's not that police are finally being held accountable for egregious acts of violence, but that white lives continue to be valued more than Black lives by law enforcement and in the legal system. It shouldn't be necessary for prosecutors to rely on the white innocence trope to convict a police officer of murder.

Part of the problem here is the subjectivity at the heart of the legal standards used to judge police use of force. The Graham v. Connor reasonableness judgment can be and often is applied in a racially inflected way. An officer's fear of a Black man is far more likely to be deemed "reasonable" than an officer's fear of a white woman like Justine Damond.

---snip---
The short answer: systemic and institutional racism. While we may express relief that a police officer was held accountable for wrongly taking a life, we cannot overlook the structural and implicit racism that was at play in this case, and that we know is at play in so many others across our nation.

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zephyr88 said:

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samurai_science said:

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zephyr88 said:

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She didn't try to kill him, she was trying to get away. However, she did get a heaping helping of FAFO. Unfortunately for her, the ICE man in front of her SUV had PTSD from a previous time he stood in front of a car. It's a ****ed up deal both ways.

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You dont know that, and neither could the officer. It's not ****ed up at all, one paid agitator is dead and the DHS employee is not.

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The polarization of this issue is insane. The goal tending on both sides is comical.

Yah, the crazy lezbo was an antagonist. She had no business being in the middle of the road, and ultimately she clearly ended up in a different situation than where she started, but she didn't stomp on the accelerator. Yah, she bumped the ICE man, but it was hardly a death blow. Why was he standing in front of the car anyhow - didn't he learn anything last time when he was seriously injured and dragged? And damn, quick-draw too. Almost like he had a debt to pay. Yah, its a ****ed up deal.

I'm glad the administration is supporting ICE. The protests and continued rhetoric from the left isn't helping. They're probably gonna paint this woman all over billboards like Floyd as if she was a martyr for the cause.

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The fact that you can twist yourself into such a contorted pretzel with your view of this is actually impressive on your flexibility.

Not so much for your ability to see and think, but hey, take a win where you can Mr. Gumby.