flown-the-coop said:

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Guy was indicted and though this guy certainly appears to be a shady cat I think there is some debate on whether what he did actually broke the law.

I vaguely recall the scandal but not the politics involved. Why not have DOJ just drop the case? Who knows. But if he was indicted in June of 2025 it's a Biden DOJ case from the start.

Trump seems to be in a pardoning mood. If I was Pelosi, Comey, Biden family, etc I would be seeking one before Trump gets stingy. Lots of crooks out there on the left that need to meet justice.

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There is no debate that what he did broke the law. He unquestionably engaged in bid rigging and got caught because he promised a competitor a piece of the pie and then failed to deliver thinking that they would not turn on him because they were just as guilty.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Guy was indicted and though this guy certainly appears to be a shady cat I think there is some debate on whether what he did actually broke the law.

I vaguely recall the scandal but not the politics involved. Why not have DOJ just drop the case? Who knows. But if he was indicted in June of 2025 it's a Biden DOJ case from the start.

Trump seems to be in a pardoning mood. If I was Pelosi, Comey, Biden family, etc I would be seeking one before Trump gets stingy. Lots of crooks out there on the left that need to meet justice.

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There is no debate that what he did broke the law. He unquestionably engaged in bid rigging and got caught because he promised a competitor a piece of the pie and then failed to deliver thinking that they would not turn on him because they were just as guilty.

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When was he convicted? I only read indicted.

flown-the-coop said:

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Here's your link. Not a big fan of giving CNN free clicks.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/01/politics/david-gentile-trump-pardon

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So we're supposed to behind these, what amount to, opinions because a nameless White House official and the Press Secretary said so? What you're using to justify pardoning a conman is just the party line of the guy who pardoned him. That's self-justification and circular reasoning at it's finest.

flown-the-coop said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Guy was indicted and though this guy certainly appears to be a shady cat I think there is some debate on whether what he did actually broke the law.

I vaguely recall the scandal but not the politics involved. Why not have DOJ just drop the case? Who knows. But if he was indicted in June of 2025 it's a Biden DOJ case from the start.

Trump seems to be in a pardoning mood. If I was Pelosi, Comey, Biden family, etc I would be seeking one before Trump gets stingy. Lots of crooks out there on the left that need to meet justice.

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There is no debate that what he did broke the law. He unquestionably engaged in bid rigging and got caught because he promised a competitor a piece of the pie and then failed to deliver thinking that they would not turn on him because they were just as guilty.

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When was he convicted? I only read indicted.

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Just because you haven't been convicted doesn't mean you haven't broken the law.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Here's your link. Not a big fan of giving CNN free clicks.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/01/politics/david-gentile-trump-pardon

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So we're supposed to behind these, what amount to, opinions because a nameless White House official and the Press Secretary said so? What you're using to justify pardoning a conman is just the party line of the guy who pardoned him. That's self-justification and circular reasoning at it's finest.

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Nameless White House officials have resulted in Trump being impeached, so it seems like a solid news source is it not?

I don't particularly care who you believe or whether you support the pardons or not. But there are often two sides to a story and only one was being presented. You can disregard, but shouting it down in the way you are trying is Biden era censoring.

You can try, but its not going to dissuade me from providing the broader context.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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When was he convicted? I only read indicted.

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Just because you haven't been indicted convicted doesn't mean you haven't broken the law.

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I mean we can keep going on this. Point remains he is not a convicted criminal. Additionally, he was never allowed to present his case in court because... ironically... of the pardon.

You are shooting more bricks than a Buzz Williams free throw contest.

Point remains, he undoubtedly broke the law, and you trying to pretend like there is some kind of debate about it is just goal tending. When Trump said he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue, shoot someone, and not lose any supporters, you're the kind of person he was talking about.

Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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Cuellar needs to publicly renounce the democrat party and become a Republican

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NO NO NO

Why do you want RINOS???


He has a good stance on immigration it appears (which is why Biden went after him).

The Rest? He is a LIB.

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So.....like Trump.

redcrayon said:

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Scientific said:

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I haven't seen one word around here on the pardon of the ex Honduran president--known and convicted of drug trafficking and creating narco state.

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Start a thread!

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I've never started a thread for one. And for what? To read all the what about isms, or the moving goal post on this? I've vaguely seen who flown the coop is when I occasionally venture onto here. It's serious copism to watch people like him call the leader of what they deem a "**** hole" Latin American country clean, because the Biden admin was in office. He called it a witch hunt.

I don't frequent F16, and the subject of pardons came up in this thread. I don't know a single Honduran who thought Hernandez deserved a pardon or wasn't guilty. The mud on this guy would make pigs jealous. Hernandez's brother was in custody and sentenced on allegations stretching back to 2017 or so. This pardon sent some serious shock waves down there.

It's seriously inexcusable. There's no way you can justify it. We released a Narco politician in less than 2 years when he was supposed to be on a 45 year sentence.

Scientific said:

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It's seriously inexcusable. There's no way you can justify it. We released a Narco politician in less than 2 years when he was supposed to be on a 45 year sentence.

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HA!

This confirms that you don't venture here, often.

Yes, it can be justified, if Trump did it. I mean, to a solid few posters, that is.

And I do believe that dude's pardon has been talked about on other pardon threads, but I don't give a **** enough to verify. Trump is a fiscal liberal, but his immigration stance and penchant for peace (for his name to be on something good) are solid.

one safe place said:

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I wish a president could not undo the outcome of the judicial system via pardons, commutations, etc.

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It's a final check on a run-away justice system.

I think that the pardons of all the J6ers were very well deserved. Those people got railroaded by a political process that had nothing to do with justice.

Scientific said:

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redcrayon said:

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Scientific said:

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I haven't seen one word around here on the pardon of the ex Honduran president--known and convicted of drug trafficking and creating narco state.

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Start a thread!

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I've never started a thread for one. And for what? To read all the what about isms, or the moving goal post on this? I've vaguely seen who flown the coop is when I occasionally venture onto here. It's serious copism to watch people like him call the leader of what they deem a "**** hole" Latin American country clean, because the Biden admin was in office. He called it a witch hunt.

I don't frequent F16, and the subject of pardons came up in this thread. I don't know a single Honduran who thought Hernandez deserved a pardon or wasn't guilty. The mud on this guy would make pigs jealous. Hernandez's brother was in custody and sentenced on allegations stretching back to 2017 or so. This pardon sent some serious shock waves down there.

It's seriously inexcusable. There's no way you can justify it. We released a Narco politician in less than 2 years when he was supposed to be on a 45 year sentence.

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Copism - I am not a cop, nor a modern art specialist nor a Swedish file sharer. Maybe you were thinking of something else.

You don't know a single Honduran, I will certainly give you that. The accusations against Hernandez were absolutely politically motivated and the "evidence" against him was largely based on testimony of his political enemies or estranged former allies.

So we have a Central American country where leaders are indeed generally corrupt where the Biden regime wanted to take out another right leaning politician in an effort to bring more commies into the fold. I think most would say we shouldn't have Merrick Garland and the never corrupt SDNY involving themselves in who runs other countries.

Acting like this guy was El Chapo or Manuel Noriega is a legit stretch of the pretzel.

The question one should be asking is why Hernandez was singled-out when Biden and friends opened the borders to drugs for 4 years. They did NOTHING in many areas to fight drugs coming into the Country. Why did they railroad this guy?

People absolutely refuse to think for themselves and instead worship at the altar of Rachel Maddow and Joe Mika.

flown-the-coop said:

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Scientific said:

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I've vaguely seen who flown the coop is when I occasionally venture onto here. It's serious copism to watch people like him call the leader of what they deem a "**** hole" Latin American country clean, because the Biden admin was in office. He called it a witch hunt.

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Copism - I am not a cop, nor a modern art specialist nor a Swedish file sharer. Maybe you were thinking of something else.

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LOL


"Copism" = "Cope - ism"

Nothing to do with cops, but "coping".

BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Scientific said:

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I've vaguely seen who flown the coop is when I occasionally venture onto here. It's serious copism to watch people like him call the leader of what they deem a "**** hole" Latin American country clean, because the Biden admin was in office. He called it a witch hunt.

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Copism - I am not a cop, nor a modern art specialist nor a Swedish file sharer. Maybe you were thinking of something else.

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LOL


"Copism" = "Cope - ism"

Nothing to do with cops, but "coping".

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BigRobSA dictionary?

It would be copium which is still slang.

I thought you were the vocabulary police? How could you get this so wrong?

flown-the-coop said:

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BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Scientific said:

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I've vaguely seen who flown the coop is when I occasionally venture onto here. It's serious copism to watch people like him call the leader of what they deem a "**** hole" Latin American country clean, because the Biden admin was in office. He called it a witch hunt.

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Copism - I am not a cop, nor a modern art specialist nor a Swedish file sharer. Maybe you were thinking of something else.

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LOL


"Copism" = "Cope - ism"

Nothing to do with cops, but "coping".

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BigRobSA dictionary?

It would be copium which is still slang.

I thought you were the vocabulary police? How could you get this so wrong?

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I didn't get it wrong, he did, but even a dumb half-breed could figure it out. Yes, normally it's "copium".

BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Scientific said:

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I've vaguely seen who flown the coop is when I occasionally venture onto here. It's serious copism to watch people like him call the leader of what they deem a "**** hole" Latin American country clean, because the Biden admin was in office. He called it a witch hunt.

---

Copism - I am not a cop, nor a modern art specialist nor a Swedish file sharer. Maybe you were thinking of something else.

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LOL


"Copism" = "Cope - ism"

Nothing to do with cops, but "coping".

---

BigRobSA dictionary?

It would be copium which is still slang.

I thought you were the vocabulary police? How could you get this so wrong?

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I didn't get it wrong, he did, but even a dumb half-breed could figure it out. Yes, normally it's "copium".

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Well, since they got their assessment of Hernandez completely wrong then it doesn't surprise me they also got their vocabulary all *******ized.

BTW - To clarify I don't think Hernandez is squeaky clean or some sort of innocent saint. But the question I proposed above should be answered.

Why did an administration that turned a blind eye to all sorts of crimes but particularly drug-related crimes, who opened our borders wide to S America and the rest of the world, go after this guy?

Could it be... wait for it... that Hernandez was stronger on stopping the transiting through Honduras and worked with the Trump 1.0 admin?

His religious conservatism? His stance on same-sex marriage? Certainly none of that made him a target of the Biden admin.

Nah, has to be Trump sold him bitcoin and gave him a pardon.

Like someone else said. You don't know dick about me. I am not the kind of poster for you to virtue signal when I havent made a reputation of myself on this sub.

I'm much more connected to Central America, than you probably are. I've stepped foot in Tegucigalpa, San Salvador, San Jose, and Panama City more than once each. My heart has adopted Panama, and my first trip out of A&M was backpacking from Panama City to Guatemala. Take all that for what's it's worth. I live in Houston, I have many Honduran friends.

Not one of them thinks Hernandez isn't guilty.

Scientific said:

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Like someone else said. You don't know dick about me. I am not the kind of poster for you to virtue signal when I havent made a reputation of myself on this sub.

I'm much more connected to Central America, than you probably are. I've stepped foot in Tegucigalpa, San Salvador, San Jose, and Panama City more than once each. My heart has adopted Panama, and my first trip out of A&M was backpacking from Panama City to Guatemala. Take all that for what's it's worth. I live in Houston, I have many Honduran friends.

Not one of them thinks Hernandez isn't guilty.

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Because you all read the same reddit and BlueSky posts.

Like someone else said. You don't know dick about me.

Not sure you even know what virtue signaling is.

Your post college backpacking has little to know reference here. I once ate at a Russian restaurant and worked with a couple, its not what makes me informed on the subject of Russia-Ukraine.

I used to have responsibility for covering the S America operations for a very large multi-national business. Also not what informs me on the subject of migration and drug trafficking.

Nor am I informed by anecdotals from my "buddies" in Houston.

I stand by what I posted on Hernandez. You choosing to attack me versus addressing the question I proposed on why Hernandez and not others were targeted by the Biden admin is quite telling.

I am much less perplexed about Hernandez than I am about Cuellar. But you do you.

I don't like President Trump's of Henry Cuellar because he appears shady, but I understand that he thinks Cuellar had been punished by a weaponized Department of Justice under former president Joe Biden for speaking out against the administration's border policy.

An absolutely reasonable take. We don't get many of those around here.

Correction said:

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Trump commuted David Gentile's 7-year sentence for running a billion dollar Ponzi scheme after serving just 12 days.

NEW: The commutation Trump issued to David Gentile wipes away all further fines & restitution.

Gentile had been sentenced to 7 years for his role in a $1.6B scheme that defrauded thousands of investors.

Prosecutors had been seeking $15.5M in forfeiture.https://t.co/5cjY1dQTZt pic.twitter.com/nlKGlWHjcH

— Kenneth P. Vogel (@kenvogel) December 3, 2025

Tough luck, defrauded investors.

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Nobody should ever get a pardon who hasn't provided full restitution, with interest, to each and every one of their victims.

Boss I lived in Nicaragua during Hernandez's term and he was a vile and evil crap stain of an individual. His administration and cronies empowered the Los Cachiros group in Honduras and they were basically like a B movie roving criminal gang with no impunity who terrorized whole swaths of a country. I have used to have to go to HN for work quite a bit and know the country well.

There is corruption and then there is corruption with subjugation and that is what Hernandez not only allowed and profited from, but encouraged and facilitated.

This pardon speaks volumes on the lack of decency and compunction Trump has. Shame on him. And I voted for the blow hard yankee. Better than the alternative, but proving to be a lot of what his detractors claimed of him.

RGV AG said:

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Boss I lived in Nicaragua during Hernandez's term and he was a vile and evil crap stain of an individual. His administration and cronies empowered the Los Cachiros group in Honduras and they were basically like a B movie roving criminal gang with no impunity who terrorized whole swaths of a country. I have used to have to go to HN for work quite a bit and know the country well.

There is corruption and then there is corruption with subjugation and that is what Hernandez not only allowed and profited from, but encouraged and facilitated.

This pardon speaks volumes on the lack of decency and compunction Trump has. Shame on him. And I voted for the blow hard yankee. Better than the alternative, but proving to be a lot of what his detractors claimed of him.

---

The good thing about TDS is it always shows the bias. There were a lot of people who voted against Kamala and not for Trump. Appreciate the vote, but the support for the admin would mean more.

One anecdotal take doesn't overcome the pressing interocular question.

Why did the BIDEN admin go after this guy through SDNY meanwhile letting terrorists, cartel, human traffickers, child sex traffickers, Chinese spies and cat eating Haitians flow freely across the board?

But this guy gets the Nuremberg treatment from Garland. Just a question, I am sure there is a plain simply answer that no one wants to provide.

It was almost an open secret that Hernandez's brother, a congressman, was calling some violent hits on opposition. The DOJ piled up loads of evidence on Tony Hernandez. You'd have to be super naive to believe one didn't have free reign as he did, while his brother was president.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-honduran-congressman-tony-hern-ndez-sentenced-life-prison-and-ordered-forfeit

I was in Honduras and El Salvador in 2021 for weeks when both were murder capitals of LatAm. The sentiment around Bukele and Hernandez was night and day. Not that I think Bukele is squeaky clean himself, but the morale around both couldn't be more different at that time. That was right before ES had it's purge on crime.

Tony Hernandez was arrested in Miami 2018. The DOJ was coming after these two since Trump's first term. Should Tony get a pardon while we're at it? The infamous migrant caravans out of Honduras were during Juan Orlando's presidency, so I'm really confused how anyone defends a crooked politician that didn't lift a finger on the migration issue that directly affected the same border policy being discussed......copium.

Up until 2019 the bulkhead country in Central America was Nicaragua. Wets coming up by land would have to go around Nicaragua and the preferred method was the Moskito coast and some on the pacific side departing from CR. Honduras was in deep with the CDG and Zetas and the Mara's there were being paid by Los Cachiros. There was tons of human trafficking during this guys administration, especially towards the end.

Honduras became a heaven for a lot of the top level Mara guys as well as main DTO guys and I am pretty sure the Venezuelans had a big presence. All of this was well known and HN journalists that touched on exposure were killed PDQ.

Look at a map and find San Andres Island Colombia. Lots of wets and dope would transit from San Andres to the Trujillo and Puerto Limpira area. They were supplied with fuel out of the Corn Islands and Pearl Lagoon. And the Honduran navy ran cover.

Hernandez was no friend to the US during his term. Honestly I can see no conceivable reason for Trump to pardon him. Just like FJB was totally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and prolly hundreds of thousands of rapes, Trump is now responsible for cutting loose a vile character with thousands of liters of blood on his hands.

It hurts me to see this happen as I so despise the left, but if this is the glorious right then I want no part of it.

flown-the-coop said:

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The good thing about TDS is it always shows the bias. There were a lot of people who voted against Kamala and not for Trump. Appreciate the vote, but the support for the admin would mean more.

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It's business as usual on Forum 16: If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.

Saying someone is showing evidenced bias is not attacking them. And you have to consider bias when trying to understand the message.

The post didn't stop at criticizing WHAT Trump did with that pardon. It criticized WHO he thinks Trump is.

Whether you voted for him or not, it's just unnecessary but people do it all the time. Much of it is based on personality dislike, which is also what makes others like Trump so much.

I also question anytime someone says "I voted for Trump, but this X action is a bridge too far for me, no sir, that's it. Dude is dead to me now." In the last year people have said this on tariffs, Jan 6 pardons, Iran strikes, tariffs, OBBB, more pardons, tariffs, drug boat droning, drug boat droning with kill em all, more pardons, DOGE, tariffs.

Over and over again. If you literally turn on Trump because he has not provided sufficient explanation to you of his reasoning by your expected date, then you really never supported him.

Make sense?

"If you turn on him because of (insert reason) you never really supported him", is probably one of the most cult like quotes I have seen on this site. And that obviously says alot.

RGV AG said:

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Boss I lived in Nicaragua during Hernandez's term and he was a vile and evil crap stain of an individual. His administration and cronies empowered the Los Cachiros group in Honduras and they were basically like a B movie roving criminal gang with no impunity who terrorized whole swaths of a country. I have used to have to go to HN for work quite a bit and know the country well.

There is corruption and then there is corruption with subjugation and that is what Hernandez not only allowed and profited from, but encouraged and facilitated.

This pardon speaks volumes on the lack of decency and compunction Trump has. Shame on him. And I voted for the blow hard yankee. Better than the alternative, but proving to be a lot of what his detractors claimed of him.

---

RGV AG said:

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Hernandez was no friend to the US during his term. Honestly I can see no conceivable reason for Trump to pardon him. Just like FJB was totally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and prolly hundreds of thousands of rapes, Trump is now responsible for cutting loose a vile character with thousands of liters of blood on his hands.

It hurts me to see this happen as I so despise the left, but if this is the glorious right then I want no part of it.

---

Says a lot about how you poorly understood what I wrote.

It's a concept called loyalty. When you support someone and voted for them and believe they are best to lead the Country, you don't turn on them on one singular xyz thing.

What it is not is saying you cannot be critical of that person. But when your propensity is high to jump to the very worst criticism, pile on the bandwagon on everything, then i think it's apt to question whether someone really supported that person.

In mo way does that resemble a cult. But you attack the person when logic is not on your side. Typical.

I understood exactly what you said, and you just reaffirmed it. You bring up loyalty. That is a big reason many people talk about cult behavior with trump. Loyalty to a specific leader over loyalty to the constitution, freedom and American itself is cult behavior.

Sorry, cannot be responsible for someone else's lack of plain understanding. Enjoy your evening.

ETFan said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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You're right, I am. Forgive me, it's been a day and my mind, as dull as it is is operating on extra blunt right now.

Carry on. I'll go get some coffee now.

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Don't mess up the blunt by narcanning it with caffeine. Enjoy your mellow mood.

In fact, a day of TexAg-ing has me jonesing for some good, good myself.

I will be back with deeper thoughts.

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The one thing we could all sit around and enjoy, without arguing I'd imagine. Put on some sturgill, start a fire in the pit. Sheeeeet. Know what I'm doing when I get home.

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I just had to come back and add to this.

We all argue like crazy and agree occasionally (love those times), but I know that we'd all have a blast if we all got together and got our "good, good" on sitting around a fire pit with some good music playing.

The discussions would be epic.

flown-the-coop said:

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Sorry, cannot be responsible for someone else's lack of plain understanding. Enjoy your evening.

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What if it was on a conveyor, would it take off?!