CowPieAndFries said:

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techno-ag said:

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It beats the alternative, all that fentanyl killing our inner city youth.

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Fentanyl does not come from Venezuela. It comes mainly from China and is smuggled through Mexico. Cocaine, which I here is a hell of a drug, comes from Venezuela.

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The border is a lot harder to cross these days.

Black lives matter. If we can prevent another George Floyd death by blowing up these speedboats, I'm all for it.

PaulsBunions said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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PaulsBunions said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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PaulsBunions said:

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techno-ag said:

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It beats the alternative, all that fentanyl killing our inner city youth.

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The ingredients for illicit fentanyl are made in China and sent to Mexico, where the Mexican cartels manufacture the fent and send it up to the US. It doesn't really come from Venezuela.

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Yea, that's sort of outdated. We focused pretty hard to shutting down the west coast of Mexico. So those precursors come by alternate route.

Why do people resist giving Trump credit for doing an awesome thing?

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Where is the evidence to support this claim?

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It's buried in the Epstein files, you will just have to be patient.

Some folks have sources outside of Google, AI and the like. I don't particularly care if you believe me, but there is justification for blowing these boats out of the water.

Maybe, just maybe, Trump and his admin have more intel than Rachel Maddow and Joe Mika have.

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"We have good reason to blow people up we just can't prove it trust us"

Pretty weak argument for killing 51 people not gonna lie man

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How about we have intelligence sources that we are not willing to burn just so you can feel better about what we are doing. That work for you?

It's all pretty simple. If we were blowing up boats that weren't illegal, then the families of said victims would be speaking up. They're not.

PaulsBunions said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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PaulsBunions said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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PaulsBunions said:

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techno-ag said:

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It beats the alternative, all that fentanyl killing our inner city youth.

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The ingredients for illicit fentanyl are made in China and sent to Mexico, where the Mexican cartels manufacture the fent and send it up to the US. It doesn't really come from Venezuela.

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Yea, that's sort of outdated. We focused pretty hard to shutting down the west coast of Mexico. So those precursors come by alternate route.

Why do people resist giving Trump credit for doing an awesome thing?

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Where is the evidence to support this claim?

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It's buried in the Epstein files, you will just have to be patient.

Some folks have sources outside of Google, AI and the like. I don't particularly care if you believe me, but there is justification for blowing these boats out of the water.

Maybe, just maybe, Trump and his admin have more intel than Rachel Maddow and Joe Mika have.

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"We have good reason to blow people up we just can't prove it trust us"

Pretty weak argument for killing 51 people not gonna lie man

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What access does your security clearance give you? Maybe you could check for us

Why shouldn't they produce evidence? There is no reason not to. It's as simple as showing the drugs through the wreckage or intel that led them to strike.

I'm all for taking out the cartels and asserting our influence in our hemisphere. It's long overdue. That being said, we do have an obligation to our ideals and identity as a country.

There is zero reason not to release evidence unless there's a risk it will compromise future operations, and I can't see how that would be the case in this situation.

Not Americans. Don't care.

This is about reasserting our hegemony over this hemisphere where Russia, China and others have entered our sphere of influence. Putting the fear of God into Venezuela, who by the way, has the largest oil reserves on the planet is critical to our national security. Smoking a few drug boats is a good thing and allows us to move physically closer to the problem which is Maduro and his regime.

wtmartinaggie said:

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Why shouldn't they produce evidence? There is no reason not to. It's as simple as showing the drugs through the wreckage or intel that led them to strike.

I'm all for taking out the cartels and asserting our influence in our hemisphere. It's long overdue. That being said, we do have an obligation to our ideals and identity as a country.

There is zero reason not to release evidence unless there's a risk it will compromise future operations, and I can't see how that would be the case in this situation.

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Seems like there's plenty of evidence. An expensive speed boat is headed north along the coast of Venezuela a failed socialist state and does not respond to orders to stop.

That is a pretty dangerous take. I think it aligns pretty closely with how Putin is treating the Ukrainians.

wtmartinaggie said:

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Why shouldn't they produce evidence? There is no reason not to. It's as simple as showing the drugs through the wreckage or intel that led them to strike.

I'm all for taking out the cartels and asserting our influence in our hemisphere. It's long overdue. That being said, we do have an obligation to our ideals and identity as a country.

There is zero reason not to release evidence unless there's a risk it will compromise future operations, and I can't see how that would be the case in this situation.

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So burning the sources that we have telling us or showing us the drugs being loaded onto the boats wouldn't risk future operations? Letting the cartels know we have their production facilities under constant surveillance won't cause them to make changes in their operations? You answered your own questions. Yes, it would compromise future operations. There have been stories published about drug bundles being found after previous attacks. That is good enough for me.

Sure. And Democrats fight to keep foreign murderers here.

I'm for protecting our borders and keeping the refuse out.

Hill08 said:

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It's all pretty simple. If we were blowing up boats that weren't illegal, then the families of said victims would be speaking up. They're not.

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I read one article about a family speaking out that their killed family member wasn't a drug runner. But I think it turned into "maybe he was a drug runner, but we didn't know anything about it"

This isn't a law enforcement initiative. It's a drug war.

A pretty hyperbolic whataboutism, but okay. I find it hard to justify not providing evidence for expending military resources while killing foreign nationals because the Democrats want "murderers" to stay in America.

Again, not against the strikes themselves or asserting ourselves regionally. There's a mountain of incentive for us to do so. My point is that we should try to manage the situation a bit differently.

I get you're not going to change your mind.

agracer said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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Respect to Rand Paul who is consistent in asking for the Constitution to be followed, for the rule of law to be maintained. In today's United States, it is tantamount to political suicide for a Republican to even question Trump. Paul is one of the only GOPers who does so, some of the time.

Quote:

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"But the drug war … or the crime war has typically been something we do through law enforcement. And so far, they have alleged that these people are drug dealers. No one said their name. No one said what evidence. No one said whether they're armed. And we've had no evidence presented."

"So, at this point, I would call them extrajudicial killings. And this is akin to what China does, to what Iran does with drug dealers. They summarily execute people without presenting evidence to the public. So, it's wrong," Paul added.

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https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5573870-rand-paul-caribbean-boat-strikes/

On the 57 dead figure. Source:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/10/28/us/trump-news-japan#us-military-boat-strikes

This current policy reminds me of the Philippines and Rodrigo Duterte. The war on drugs became a recipe for extrajudicial murders. This kind of thing has played out over and over amongst these strongman regimes.

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Remember when Obama droned US Citizens and democrats were all quiet about it?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

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Remember when Killary wanted to drone Julian Assange?

No public outcries then.

Hillary Clinton on Assange "Can't we just drone this guy" -- report https://t.co/S7tPrl2QCZ pic.twitter.com/qy2EQBa48y

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) October 3, 2016

Let's all say this together: "The Clinton's, Bidens, and Democrats are neither an example to follow nor a justification to do ****ed up things."

wtmartinaggie said:

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Why shouldn't they produce evidence? There is no reason not to. It's as simple as showing the drugs through the wreckage or intel that led them to strike.

I'm all for taking out the cartels and asserting our influence in our hemisphere. It's long overdue. That being said, we do have an obligation to our ideals and identity as a country.

There is zero reason not to release evidence unless there's a risk it will compromise future operations, and I can't see how that would be the case in this situation.

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"There is zero reason except the one I just gave you, si really there is greater than zero reasons not to disclose information"

How about this. We have elected representatives who sit on oversight committees to see actual intelligence reports and look out for your interests for you. That's the way a representative republic works. Your curiosity doesn't outweigh our system of government.

You're right. I've had more than one extended relative die from an OD. One because of fentanyl. We are being targeted and need to fight back.

From what I've seen, these are all fast boats with multiple outboards. Those aren't fishing or open ocean vessels.

techno-ag said:

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It beats the alternative, all that fentanyl killing our inner city youth.

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Fentanyl typically comes from Mexico. South America is all about the cocaine.

I think Congressman Paul's point is that those representatives aren't being told. I don't have some high and mighty view on myself that mandates I know. I just want the checks and balances built into my government to function.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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From what I've seen, these are all fast boats with multiple outboards. Those aren't fishing or open ocean vessels.

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Go look at the Wavy Boats youtube channel with boats going in and out of Boca, there are pleasure and fishing boats headed in and out of there with 4-5 outboards all the time. A good number of them are probably headed to the Bahamas. But to your point, Venezuela is not Boca and these kinds of boats are only used for one thing if they are crossing the ocean heading north from there.

You do realize that you'd be very unhappy if the logic you've applied to support your argument concerning illegal immigration was used while responding to this, right?

shiftyandquick said:

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LOL, you guys think this is about the drugs?

You think blowing up a few boats is going to make any difference?

You are very much optimists. Or apologists for this regime.

"This time we are going to win the war on drugs by blowing up speed boats." How do you guys stop from laughing as you say this?

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No, but driving up the costs really helps reduce consumption.

Trump all but sealed the physical land border by virtually halting illegal border crossing attempts and traffic. That cut way down on mule traffic AND allows border patrol to actually work on interdicting smuggling attempts.
That has forced more attempts to go by water. To move supply up the pacific coast or Caribbean try to hand loads off to "fishing and pleasure boats" going in and out.

This also drives to cargo shipment smuggling, which also is getting increased scrutiny due to crossover from tariff compliance checks.

All this increases the costs and decreases availability over time in the USA, AND devalues building stockpiles of drugs and drug components in the hands of these cartels while reducing their income streams. This is on top of not being able to smuggle people, guns, etc at volume.

When cartels lose revenue, they lose power. They can't pay big bribes. They can't hire as many dumb goons. They can't procure the resouces they need to maintain their operational logistics. Things break down, and that compounds, makes them even less efficient and effective. If they can't bribe all levels of foreign governments compared to what we offer for cooperation, then they become under even more threat at home territory.

These actions in concert won't stop the illegal drug trade but can cut it way back. If they decriminalized a couple of the least socially harmful recreational drug alternatives producible domestically on top of that, it might break the cartels in major ways.

Great point. I think the broader question is how do we destabilize them in a way that doesn't end with them being fragmented and going through a period of time where they are more dangerous as we destroy them. There are a ton of assets, weapons, money, and influence that's tied very closely to some of these governments we need to make sure and address in concert with destabilizing the actual smuggling operation.

What evidence is ever provided to the public for our drone strike campaigns? Cartels are now terror orgs, they can be targeted at will - see the past 10-20 years. The cartels actually deserve to get that label, compared to some loosely assembled militia targets on the other side of the globe, that have way less impact on the American public.

The major difference between these and the Obama/Clinton drone strikes is that they're not blowing up whole building and homes - killing everyone in the area for 1-2 terrorists. These are targets on the water with no other potential civilian casualties in the area.

wtmartinaggie said:

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I think Congressman Paul's point is that those representatives aren't being told. I don't have some high and mighty view on myself that mandates I know. I just want the checks and balances built into my government to function.

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A reasonable response, however I must point out that you didn't frame your previous comments this way.

I think the point is that those strikes, while short term effective, served to put us in a tight spot long term in the relationship building category.

Those nations are an ocean away. These are in our back yard and are way more important to us from a geopolitical standpoints. We need to learn from our mistakes and do what we can to not radicalize more people against us.

Sorry, we can't just sit here and watch the drugs flow in. We need to do all we can. I support these actions.

Was that me framing them or your own bias?

The world, mainly social media, has conditioned us all to do it, it's part of why every discussion about politics in America devolves into an angry gripe-fest. Opinions can live on a sliding scale and don't have to be pinned all the way one way or another.

wtmartinaggie said:

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I think the point is that those strikes, while short term effective, served to put us in a tight spot long term in the relationship building category.

Those nations are an ocean away. These are in our back yard and are way more important to us from a geopolitical standpoints. We need to learn from our mistakes and do what we can to not radicalize more people against us.

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What did you think was going to happen when these cartels and groups got classified as terror orgs? You do that to go after their money more effectively and to have the capability to use extreme force against them.

Our backyard needs to be more heavily protected than what is happening in the ME.

PaulsBunions said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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PaulsBunions said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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PaulsBunions said:

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techno-ag said:

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It beats the alternative, all that fentanyl killing our inner city youth.

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The ingredients for illicit fentanyl are made in China and sent to Mexico, where the Mexican cartels manufacture the fent and send it up to the US. It doesn't really come from Venezuela.

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Yea, that's sort of outdated. We focused pretty hard to shutting down the west coast of Mexico. So those precursors come by alternate route.

Why do people resist giving Trump credit for doing an awesome thing?

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Where is the evidence to support this claim?

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It's buried in the Epstein files, you will just have to be patient.

Some folks have sources outside of Google, AI and the like. I don't particularly care if you believe me, but there is justification for blowing these boats out of the water.

Maybe, just maybe, Trump and his admin have more intel than Rachel Maddow and Joe Mika have.

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"We have good reason to blow people up we just can't prove it trust us"

Pretty weak argument for killing 51 people not gonna lie man

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So we are just blowing up some charter fishing boats who troll for marlin at very high speeds? Maybe entertainment charters where they are pulling parasailers for a beautiful view of the Pacific at 45 mph.

Even if those boats were shipping drugs, how do we know they were going to the US?

txwxman said:

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techno-ag said:

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It beats the alternative, all that fentanyl killing our inner city youth.

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Fentanyl typically comes from Mexico. South America is all about the cocaine.

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Keep up. The land border is sealed. Cartels have shifted to water. See posts above.