A&M - Diploma Mill?

8,612 Views | 162 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by cecil77
FlyRod
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CampSkunk said:

Again, capitalism. Most of those majors have smaller enrollment, and who is to say that someone graduating in Dance can't get a good job? I know two - one is actually a professional dancer, and the other owns a dance studio, and judging from the tuition I pay for my grands to learn ballet, I would judge she is doing just fine. And a lot of the diploma mill complainers were talking about the 25,000 engineering students thing. If engineering graduates can't get good jobs, then my guess is that we'll see fewer degrees awarded. But that's not what's happening.


Precisely. Let the market decide, not ideology.
Teslag
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infinity ag said:

Eliminatus said:

infinity ag said:

Flower Child said:

There are over 200 colleges/universities in Texas, with everyone fighting to get into maybe 5 of them.

Texas needs more of its universities to become great. We don't need to keep expanding A&M until College Station can accommodate hundreds of thousands of students.


The name "TAMU - College Station" has cache. Respect. Impact.
It is not the same if you say you are from TAMU - Galveston.

Just a couple of days ago, I dissuaded my friend from picking TAMU Galveston and Kingsville for his daughter on the CommonApp. I said go to A&M CS or go elsewhere. That is how it is.

And yet the degree will say, Texas A&M. Period. The only ones who give grief over the satellite schools are CS attendees. It's one of the dumber dick measuring contests out there.

Looking back in hindsight, I actually think I would have liked starting in Galveston over CS then transfer over.


So nowhere in the degree does it say Galveston or Kingsville?

What about the UT system? I am sure Austin people don't want to be clubbed with UTD or UTArl


A diploma and transcript from A&M Galveston will reference college station as the campus. They also get Aggie rings.
GeorgiAg
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Rapier108 said:

A&M provides a huge number of good degrees that lead to well paying jobs.

Its a diploma mill for worthless degrees that should not even be offered. All they do is churn out the next generation of social justice warriors who are saddled with massive debt and no chance to get a good paying job with their degree. Instead they turn into antifa and wait for the next Democrat to pay off their loans.

Just from one look through the list of current degrees. No problem with some of these topics have a few classes on the subject as college is about learning new things, but A&M shouldn't be having them as majors. None of the "Studies" should be taught at all.

Anthropology
Classics
Dance Science
General Studies
Journalism (so as long as it is basically MSDNC level)
Modern Languages (French, German, or Russian) (a minor, sure, but not a major)
Music Performance
Performance & Visual Studies
Philosophy
Spanish (Again, minor sure, but not a major)
Theatre
University Studies - Global Arts, Planning, Design & Construction (Plenty of similar degrees offered.)
University Studies - Oceans & One Health
University Studies - Race, Gender, & Ethnicity
University Studies - Society, Ethics, & Law
University Studies - Tourism & Coastal Community Development
Women's & Gender Studies

Dance Science/Performance & Visual Studies is a very important degree that pumps out many high wage earners.

MAROON
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6 of the top 10 are land grant universities established under the Morrill Act.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
cecil77
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Texas population grew by 20% the last 13 years, so that's a bunch of it.

torrid
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Rapier108 said:

A&M provides a huge number of good degrees that lead to well paying jobs.

Its a diploma mill for worthless degrees that should not even be offered. All they do is churn out the next generation of social justice warriors who are saddled with massive debt and no chance to get a good paying job with their degree. Instead they turn into antifa and wait for the next Democrat to pay off their loans.

Just from one look through the list of current degrees. No problem with some of these topics have a few classes on the subject as college is about learning new things, but A&M shouldn't be having them as majors. None of the "Studies" should be taught at all.

Anthropology
Classics
Dance Science
General Studies
Journalism (so as long as it is basically MSDNC level)
Modern Languages (French, German, or Russian) (a minor, sure, but not a major)
Music Performance
Performance & Visual Studies
Philosophy
Spanish (Again, minor sure, but not a major)
Theatre
University Studies - Global Arts, Planning, Design & Construction (Plenty of similar degrees offered.)
University Studies - Oceans & One Health
University Studies - Race, Gender, & Ethnicity
University Studies - Society, Ethics, & Law
University Studies - Tourism & Coastal Community Development
Women's & Gender Studies

Not necessarily disagreeing, but how many people are enrolled in these programs? I bet not many.
GeorgiAg
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If my son or daughter had any of these as a major, I'd pull their funding.

I will say that my ex was an Anthropology major at SMU and graduated with it. She went on to law school. I guess that's ok if it's your plan, but she was a moron with money, so she probably would have been better served with some other major.
torrid
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Teslag said:

infinity ag said:

Eliminatus said:

infinity ag said:

Flower Child said:

There are over 200 colleges/universities in Texas, with everyone fighting to get into maybe 5 of them.

Texas needs more of its universities to become great. We don't need to keep expanding A&M until College Station can accommodate hundreds of thousands of students.


The name "TAMU - College Station" has cache. Respect. Impact.
It is not the same if you say you are from TAMU - Galveston.

Just a couple of days ago, I dissuaded my friend from picking TAMU Galveston and Kingsville for his daughter on the CommonApp. I said go to A&M CS or go elsewhere. That is how it is.

And yet the degree will say, Texas A&M. Period. The only ones who give grief over the satellite schools are CS attendees. It's one of the dumber dick measuring contests out there.

Looking back in hindsight, I actually think I would have liked starting in Galveston over CS then transfer over.


So nowhere in the degree does it say Galveston or Kingsville?

What about the UT system? I am sure Austin people don't want to be clubbed with UTD or UTArl


A diploma and transcript from A&M Galveston will reference college station as the campus. They also get Aggie rings.

I don't think people go to A&M-Galveston looking for a free ride while getting a diploma that says "A&M". The branch campus is purposely on the coast to serve the marine-related majors. If anything, they go to the College Station campus for a couple of years for prerequisites before transferring to the Galveston campus. I knew a couple people who did that, but decades ago.
agracer
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The fact that people attending blindergarden get an Aggie Ring tells me it's a diploma mill.
Wildmen03
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YouBet said:

Yesterday said:

CDUB98 said:

Quote:

University Studies is more of a placeholder for the overwhelming majority of students in it as is General Studies.

I'm fine with it as a placeholder, but a respected institution should never have something like that as a degree, and before you post it, yes, I include the Ivy League in that statement.

All it says is that someone doesn't know how to make a decision, or isn't intelligent enough to get into one of the other colleges on campus.*



*Exceptions apply, of course.


As a proud University Studies major I will say that the degree is more of a "let's graduate you already." The degree does require two minors. Mine were History and Sports Management. At the time I had no idea what I wanted to do and just wanted to graduate. This was the fastest route to do so. I feel it has a need considering many students just need to graduate and hit the workforce doing anything.

My degree, so far, has played zero role in my career but I'm also a business owner. So take that for what it's worth.

Interesting. I was a General Studies major my Freshman and Sophomore year. Back then you were forced to pick a major at the end of your Sophomore year as GS was only allowed for first two years.

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with my life at 51.

I think that's how it was when I was there. You couldn't be general studies when you had over 60 hours,
Teslag
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agracer said:

The fact that people attending blindergarden get an Aggie Ring tells me it's a diploma mill.


Transfer students that eventually get 90 hours of credit (including transfer work) have always got Aggie rings. That's not new.
TexasAggie81
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Average Joe said:

The state population has increased dramatically over time. State schools should increase proportionally. Last I checked we were doing just that.


The state population is approximately 32.57 million. The Texas state demographer's office has not yet set a specific population estimate for 2050 in recent reports, but projections from 2015 estimated the population could reach 54.4 million by 2050, while other projections placed the total around 44.4 million for the year 2050.
TexasAggie81
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GeorgiAg said:

Rapier108 said:

A&M provides a huge number of good degrees that lead to well paying jobs.

Its a diploma mill for worthless degrees that should not even be offered. All they do is churn out the next generation of social justice warriors who are saddled with massive debt and no chance to get a good paying job with their degree. Instead they turn into antifa and wait for the next Democrat to pay off their loans.

Just from one look through the list of current degrees. No problem with some of these topics have a few classes on the subject as college is about learning new things, but A&M shouldn't be having them as majors. None of the "Studies" should be taught at all.

Anthropology
Classics
Dance Science
General Studies
Journalism (so as long as it is basically MSDNC level)
Modern Languages (French, German, or Russian) (a minor, sure, but not a major)
Music Performance
Performance & Visual Studies
Philosophy
Spanish (Again, minor sure, but not a major)
Theatre
University Studies - Global Arts, Planning, Design & Construction (Plenty of similar degrees offered.)
University Studies - Oceans & One Health
University Studies - Race, Gender, & Ethnicity
University Studies - Society, Ethics, & Law
University Studies - Tourism & Coastal Community Development
Women's & Gender Studies

Dance Science/Performance & Visual Studies is a very important degree that pumps out many high wage earners.




Does she pay taxes on tips?
CampSkunk
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agracer said:

The fact that people attending blindergarden get an Aggie Ring tells me it's a diploma mill.

Then you are telling yourself telling yourself falsely - my boys and their wives took as many classes in high school and junior college as they could, because it was about a third of the cost. First year English, History, and Biology isn't any more challenging at A&M than they are in junior college. Added bonus - in junior college they usually speak English.
Aggie97
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agracer said:

The fact that people attending blindergarden get an Aggie Ring tells me it's a diploma mill.

You do know kids that transfer in still have to get 90 hours before ordering their ring. They also have to have 60 of those 90 hours being on campus. If they don't get the 60 hours before graduation they have to wait until they graduate to order. This does not make them less of an Aggie.
Aggie97
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Wildmen03 said:

YouBet said:

Yesterday said:

CDUB98 said:

Quote:

University Studies is more of a placeholder for the overwhelming majority of students in it as is General Studies.

I'm fine with it as a placeholder, but a respected institution should never have something like that as a degree, and before you post it, yes, I include the Ivy League in that statement.

All it says is that someone doesn't know how to make a decision, or isn't intelligent enough to get into one of the other colleges on campus.*



*Exceptions apply, of course.


As a proud University Studies major I will say that the degree is more of a "let's graduate you already." The degree does require two minors. Mine were History and Sports Management. At the time I had no idea what I wanted to do and just wanted to graduate. This was the fastest route to do so. I feel it has a need considering many students just need to graduate and hit the workforce doing anything.

My degree, so far, has played zero role in my career but I'm also a business owner. So take that for what it's worth.

Interesting. I was a General Studies major my Freshman and Sophomore year. Back then you were forced to pick a major at the end of your Sophomore year as GS was only allowed for first two years.

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with my life at 51.

I think that's how it was when I was there. You couldn't be general studies when you had over 60 hours,

General Studies is fairly new. It has been around less than 25 years. It was added for athletes for the most part. Before General Studies was allowed most athletes were Ag Development Majors. I remember on the show Sidelines back earlier in the 2000's showing football players arranging flowers in one of their Ag Development classes.
Ryan the Temp
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Teslag said:

Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Nah it's backed up by salaries and job demand. Most arts majors are trash.

I'll think of you when I'm cashing my royalty checks.


Are large royalties checks the standard for music majors? Because large paychecks are the standard for engineers.

I make anywhere from $75-150 an hour playing trombone, and royalties across media vary. I could get $2.50 for one piece and $150 for another. Arranging and composition commissions pay pretty well depending on what goes into the project.
Teslag
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Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Nah it's backed up by salaries and job demand. Most arts majors are trash.

I'll think of you when I'm cashing my royalty checks.


Are large royalties checks the standard for music majors? Because large paychecks are the standard for engineers.

I make anywhere from $75-150 an hour playing trombone, and royalties across media vary. I could get $2.50 for one piece and $150 for another. Arranging and composition commissions pay pretty well depending on what goes into the project.


That wasn't the question. Is that the standard for music majors? Is a degree in music neccessary to be paid for music and royalties?
Average Joe
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Teslag said:

Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Nah it's backed up by salaries and job demand. Most arts majors are trash.

I'll think of you when I'm cashing my royalty checks.


Are large royalties checks the standard for music majors? Because large paychecks are the standard for engineers.

I make anywhere from $75-150 an hour playing trombone, and royalties across media vary. I could get $2.50 for one piece and $150 for another. Arranging and composition commissions pay pretty well depending on what goes into the project.


That wasn't the question. Is that the standard for music majors? Is a degree in music neccessary to be paid for music and royalties?


Big checks aren't the standard for engineers, either. I know plenty that don't even have engineering jobs anymore.

Besides, not everyone cares to make engineering salaries. If that's your standard for what classes are taught at A&M then we wouldn't have above 15k students. If that's what you want then there are plenty of private institutions for you to choose from.

I have a tech management degree from the college of education (that has since moved to the college of engineering). I make more than several engineers I know while working in cyber security. On top of that, I make almost as much with my 3D printing side business that I learned completely from YouTube videos. So, get your crappy engineering degree out of my university because it's bringing down the average.
91AggieLawyer
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Rapier108 said:

A&M provides a huge number of good degrees that lead to well paying jobs.

Its a diploma mill for worthless degrees that should not even be offered. All they do is churn out the next generation of social justice warriors who are saddled with massive debt and no chance to get a good paying job with their degree. Instead they turn into antifa and wait for the next Democrat to pay off their loans.

Just from one look through the list of current degrees. No problem with some of these topics have a few classes on the subject as college is about learning new things, but A&M shouldn't be having them as majors. None of the "Studies" should be taught at all.

Anthropology
Classics
Dance Science
General Studies
Journalism (so as long as it is basically MSDNC level)
Modern Languages (French, German, or Russian) (a minor, sure, but not a major)
Music Performance
Performance & Visual Studies
Philosophy
Spanish (Again, minor sure, but not a major)
Theatre
University Studies - Global Arts, Planning, Design & Construction (Plenty of similar degrees offered.)
University Studies - Oceans & One Health
University Studies - Race, Gender, & Ethnicity
University Studies - Society, Ethics, & Law
University Studies - Tourism & Coastal Community Development
Women's & Gender Studies


You're right for some of these, but you're simply wrong for several. The languages and music and maybe one or two others. I think you have an incomplete understanding of what one can do with and/or what one learns with those degrees.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd almost certainly go with a music undergrad, albeit maybe not performance. Thus, I may have had to come to A&M for a masters rather than undergrad (no such program back then), but I know (and perform with) a lot of people with music degrees. They have a lifelong skill or set of skills that most people, even with business or engineering degrees don't have. For a music degree, you take lessons EVERY semester. For a two hour lesson, the MINIMUM practice time EACH DAY is two hours. I think most performance majors in any instrument or voice will tell you two hours is nowhere near enough to cover what needs to be done or to make a grade higher than a C. More like 4. Then, you play in ensembles EVERY semester. Its a 2-3 hour class once a week and prep for it is easily an hour or two each day. Heaven forbid you come unprepared. That doesn't speak to your other classes and each of these that I've talked about are like a fifth of your total load each semester. In other words, we're talking 3 credit hours max, and you're talking about 5 hours a day prep.

Did YOU spend 5 hours a day studying/preparing for a 3 hour class when you were an undergrad? I didn't even come close to that kind of time until I went to law school. When I go play with folks, I can pick up fairly quickly: are these high school level players? Are they college musicians, perhaps JuCo (like I am, incidentally)? Or, are they degreed music pros? Frankly, it isn't that hard. It isn't that the HS guys are bad players, but we can do so much more with those that have some college music experience.

Languages are beyond useful. The kinds of offers I would have gotten out of school in '91 had I majored in Russian and had significant foreign relations/affairs classwork, even as an undergrad, would have rivaled business and even computer science grads a decade later. How do I know? Because I know people that did just that.

I will concede that in many cases it is a good idea to either double major, get a dual degree, or pursue a separate masters program in some of these fields. A friend from HS did a history undergrad at UTA along with enough Spanish for either a double major or separate degree (I don't know for sure; don't know if he just did the coursework or got the actual diploma). After a year working, I think, for a library, he went back for a Latin American History grad degree and went into exactly what he wanted -- although I don't recall what that was. Is this track for everyone? Maybe not, and market whims might affect all this. But how is that different from what's going on in Computer Science right now? How many BS Comp Sci grads are finding work in their field, and specifically in jobs north of first level tech support?

When I got out of A&M in '91 with an Econ BA, the job market for people with my degree wasn't great. A Gender Studies degree is totally stupid because it is a degree based on idiotic politically based nonsense. You can't say that about music, languages, etc. So you can't just say, "STEM, Business, or Bust..." Also, people continue to ***** about History, English, etc. departments being controlled by leftists. Then stop telling people these degrees are worthless! Maybe if we can get more smart people to go into these fields, even if they wind up in Academia, we can turn the departments around.
Teslag
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Quote:

Big checks aren't the standard for engineers, either.


Relative to most other majors, they are.
Teslag
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Quote:

Besides, not everyone cares to make engineering salaries. If that's your standard for what classes are taught at A&M then we wouldn't have above 15k students.


Well of course not. We also can offer degrees in finance, accounting, certain STEMs, professional tracks, etc that provide worth.
Ryan the Temp
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Teslag said:

Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:

Nah it's backed up by salaries and job demand. Most arts majors are trash.

I'll think of you when I'm cashing my royalty checks.


Are large royalties checks the standard for music majors? Because large paychecks are the standard for engineers.

I make anywhere from $75-150 an hour playing trombone, and royalties across media vary. I could get $2.50 for one piece and $150 for another. Arranging and composition commissions pay pretty well depending on what goes into the project.


That wasn't the question. Is that the standard for music majors? Is a degree in music neccessary to be paid for music and royalties?

"Music majors" covers a LOT of ground, and I would argue most people who receive music degrees never do any work that generates royalties. It's when you get into performance, composition, production, and business where royalties are. Royalties depend entirely on what your portfolio looks like, and most professional musicians understand that diversifying one's income stream is important. In my case, I perform, arrange, compose, and publish. None of those things REQUIRE a music degree, but a music degree goes a very long way toward being competent and successful doing those things. Even really successful "self-taught" artists who don't have music degrees have people with music degrees involved in what they do, which is typically a large component of their commercial success.

I think you'd be surprised how many music degrees contribute to things you experience in life. For example, if you watch the latest Superman film, there are more than 100 people with music degrees in the credits.
Teslag
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Quote:

For example, if you watch the latest Superman film, there are more than 100 people with music degrees in the credits.


No, I didn't watch that woke trash.
Teslag
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Quote:

I would argue most people who receive music degrees never do any work that generates royalties.


Thanks, now I know receiving royalites is an irrelavent reason to get a music degree or justify the existance of an entire department.
cecil77
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A university education should not be just vocational.

A university education should be as much about who you are as what you do.

The world need artists, philosophers, anthropologists, linguists, etc. This from a guy whose degrees are in NUEN.

I do tend to agree with the various "studies" majors, leave to the community colleges.
Ryan the Temp
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Quote:

For a music degree, you take lessons EVERY semester. For a two hour lesson, the MINIMUM practice time EACH DAY is two hours. I think most performance majors in any instrument or voice will tell you two hours is nowhere near enough to cover what needs to be done or to make a grade higher than a C. More like 4. Then, you play in ensembles EVERY semester. Its a 2-3 hour class once a week and prep for it is easily an hour or two each day. Heaven forbid you come unprepared. That doesn't speak to your other classes and each of these that I've talked about are like a fifth of your total load each semester. In other words, we're talking 3 credit hours max, and you're talking about 5 hours a day prep.

A music performance degree is brutal. I doubled in performance and composition, which was even worse. STEM majors taking 12 hours a semester means they are taking 3-4 courses total. Music majors taking 12 hours are taking 5-6 courses because those applied lessons, studio, and ensembles are only one credit hour each. I had to practice a minimum of 8-10 hours per week to prepare for a single one-hour lesson, then you add the time necessary to prepare for studio class and practice ensemble rep, then do coursework for music theory, aural skills, music history, and state core classes, and there often aren't enough hours in the day. I can't count the number of times I was still in the practice rooms at midnight or 1:00 AM.

Being a music major teaches you a strong work ethic and how to effectively manage your time and resources because without those skills, it is almost impossible to succeed, whether you're at a state school like I went to or Julliard (where you can pay $300K to get academically hazed).
Teslag
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Quote:

The world need artists, philosophers, anthropologists, linguists, etc.


There are plenty of BS waste of time schools where one can do this. It's doesn't need to be at our elite universities where real education matters.
Ryan the Temp
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Teslag said:


Quote:

I would argue most people who receive music degrees never do any work that generates royalties.


Thanks, now I know receiving royalites is an irrelavent reason to get a music degree or justify the existance of an entire department.

Please point to where I said receiving royalties is a reason someone should choose to get a music degree.
agracer
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The ones not even transferring but spending all their time at the satellite college get a ring as well.
Teslag
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agracer said:

The ones not even transferring but spending all their time at the satellite college get a ring as well.


At blinn?
agracer
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Did they transfer in and complete their degree at A&M. Then that's fine.

But right now, you can attend all 4 years at the satellite (like Blinn) and you still get an Aggie Ring.

And I 100% agree taking classes at the JUCO then transferring is the way to go. Much cheaper.
agracer
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Aggie97 said:

agracer said:

The fact that people attending blindergarden get an Aggie Ring tells me it's a diploma mill.

You do know kids that transfer in still have to get 90 hours before ordering their ring. They also have to have 60 of those 90 hours being on campus. If they don't get the 60 hours before graduation they have to wait until they graduate to order. This does not make them less of an Aggie.

Then why does a family relative, who never set foot on the A&M campus to attend classes have an Aggie Ring?

EDIT: I see online that you must attend 45 hours at the A&M Campus to get your ring. I never heard of this relative ever actually setting foot on the A&M campus but instead spend all his time at the Blinn Satellite (maybe that counts, I don't know).
Teslag
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Ryan the Temp said:

Teslag said:


Quote:

I would argue most people who receive music degrees never do any work that generates royalties.


Thanks, now I know receiving royalites is an irrelavent reason to get a music degree or justify the existance of an entire department.

Please point to where I said receiving royalties is a reason someone should choose to get a music degree.


I never made that argument. I said the value of the degree was justified by salaries and job demand. Then you used your royalties as a counter. I then inquired as to whether that was the standard for the major. Since it's not standard it has no bearing on the salary and job demand.
Teslag
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agracer said:

Did they transfer in and complete their degree at A&M. Then that's fine.

But right now, you can attend all 4 years at the satellite (like Blinn) and you still get an Aggie Ring.

And I 100% agree taking classes at the JUCO then transferring is the way to go. Much cheaper.


Where do you see that in the eligibility?

https://www.aggienetwork.com/ring/eligibility/
 
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