It is true that Americans don't want affordable housing.

They want nice houses in nice areas with nice amenities.

TA-OP said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Two years in a nearby community college for basic classes, followed by two at a good public university for the degree, and they're good. Or even a trade school if they're more inclined that direction instead of the books.

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This was always the case. Our "boomer" parents dumbed it down to "go to college or you will fail in life."

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Lol, technically a boomer here right on the border of GenX. Never told my kids that or heard it from my parents. I did hear however "if you quit at something you'll be a quitter in life."

The larger message was stick with it once you make a decision and don't run from adversity, whether it's college, trade school, job, marriage, or raising kids.

"I'm pissed off that people don't want to buy my manufactured home flips. I put gosh dang new linoleum in it, why ain't they bitin'?"

txaggie_08 said:

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Maybe that house really isn't worth $400k. Maybe they're lowballing because it's been sitting on the market for an extended period of time.

I've been watching the housing market pretty closely for the past year in our area. I see a lot of sellers that aren't serious in selling. Their houses have sat for months and they reduce the price here and there $5-10k, but the house continues to sit. That's telling them something they're not willing to accept - their house isn't worth what they hoped, regardless of what comps from a year plus ago may show.

The only houses I'm seeing move are those that are in the primo neighborhoods and/or don't require much in renovations.

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We just bought a 300k house for 75k.

If I do nothing to it, and try to sell it for 175k, investors won't buy it, and retail buyers won't buy it.

So I'll spend 12k on windows, $3500 on granite, 4k on appliances, $4500 on floors, $4500 on a/c, $6500 for a roof, and maybe a black garage door for 3k. It will be sold before we finish the remodel for 300k.

Also, the issues with homes sitting isn't a stubborn seller. It's a lack of offers. Properties that have marginal anything, won't get any offers and very few showings. Buyers take weeks to decide what to offer, if they will offer, or if they will look at 20 more houses. Buyers are looking at 10-12 houses a day some days.

I mean, $180k will buy you this beautiful 1,345 square foot single family in Katy ISD.

Why would anyone want more than this? Surely this is what you were dreaming of when you were studying for your Diffy-Q test at 2am in Evans.

https://www.har.com/homedetail/19214-lazy-valley-dr-katy-tx-77449/3505809

hph6203 said:

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"I'm pissed off that people don't want to buy my manufactured home flips. I put gosh dang new linoleum in it, why ain't they bitin'?"

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Those sell like hotcakes. 150k 3/2's are undefeated. Just sold a singlewide in Tyler for 185k, another singlewide in Argyle for 200k. Going to the tax auction in Hill county tomorrow to pick up more lots for some doublewides.

Meanwhile, my 4/2 stick build in West, rotting on the market. Our 3/2 brick with a Weatherford address, but it seemed closer to Azle, took 6 months to sell for 300k. Multiple doublewide remodels in the neighborhood next to ours sold for $225k-$250k with an acre more than ours.

Mobile home buyers do want affordable housing.

I assume people cannot work remotely?

I'm convinced remote work and rural lifestyle is the secret.

If I could figure out the logistics, I'd like to start a network of teaching people to build their own homes on land. Create a group of barn raisers and teach everyone well enough that they can then teach.

You'd be suprised what kind of fellowship you can create with a work project.

If anyone has ideas how to get this off the ground, I'm all ears. I've built a house, renovated a house and built two garages (one fully finished). I have the know-how on building, just need a step in the right direction to get people to believe in the vision to drop the mortgage rat race.

Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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Meaning what? A 25% drop in prices?

jeremy said:

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I assume people cannot work remotely?

I'm convinced remote work and rural lifestyle is the secret.

If I could figure out the logistics, I'd like to start a network of teaching people to build their own homes on land. Create a group of barn raisers and teach everyone well enough that they can then teach.

You'd be suprised what kind of fellowship you can create with a work project.

If anyone has ideas how to get this off the ground, I'm all ears. I've built a house, renovated a house and built two garages (one fully finished). I have the know-how on building, just need a step in the right direction to get people to believe in the vision to drop the mortgage rat race.

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For most people, it is actually cheaper to buy the house. The raw materials are something like 60% of the cost of the house, so you could take 3 years off of your job and build a house with youtube blasting Bob Villa every day, or you could hire a bunch of guys whose highest and best use is to pull wired through the rafters while you bang out another day of code or financials or patients or whatever it is you do.

Now, for people who building their own house is more of a hobby, and the 3 years off the job is a needed sabbatical, there are definitely Facebook groups etc for something like that. If you just want a Tiny House, you can have the entire thing shipped to your driveway in cardboard boxes for around $30k, some assembly required, Ikea instructions included. Check Amazon.

Another institution that you might check out is Habitat for Humanity. This is actually a really good charity that does really good work and has a positive impact on people's lives. And, you get to teach people how to build/maintain their house.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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Except for the super-hot areas, this is going to require deflation. If that happens, housing prices will be the least of people's worry.

If you really think that is our future, I recommend a bunch of bulk ammo purchases.

BusterAg said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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Except for the super-hot areas, this is going to require deflation. If that happens, housing prices will be the least of people's worry.

If you really think that is our future, I recommend a bunch of bulk ammo purchases.

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I looked at a commercial property in downtown Mexia. It was a great price. A nice town at one time. A nice building with potential but quickly discovered after visiting that locked and loaded 24/7 onsite with bulk ammo was the only way that property would have been feasible.

bobbranco said:

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BusterAg said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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Except for the super-hot areas, this is going to require deflation. If that happens, housing prices will be the least of people's worry.

If you really think that is our future, I recommend a bunch of bulk ammo purchases.

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I looked at a commercial property in downtown Mexia. It was a great price. A nice town at one time. A nice building with potential but quickly discovered after visiting that locked and loaded 24/7 onsite with bulk ammo was the only way that property would have been feasible.

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Yeah, Mexia is a cool town. I would say that Mexia is a super-hot real estate market for another reason besides irrational buyers. Hopefully some ICE will eventually cool that market down.

BusterAg said:

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bobbranco said:

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BusterAg said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

---

Except for the super-hot areas, this is going to require deflation. If that happens, housing prices will be the least of people's worry.

If you really think that is our future, I recommend a bunch of bulk ammo purchases.

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I looked at a commercial property in downtown Mexia. It was a great price. A nice town at one time. A nice building with potential but quickly discovered after visiting that locked and loaded 24/7 onsite with bulk ammo was the only way that property would have been feasible.

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Yeah, Mexia is a cool town. I would say that Mexia is a super-hot real estate market for another reason besides irrational buyers. Hopefully some ICE will eventually cool that market down.

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Not an ICE issue.

BusterAg said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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Except for the super-hot areas, this is going to require deflation. If that happens, housing prices will be the least of people's worry.

If you really think that is our future, I recommend a bunch of bulk ammo purchases.

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The only way forward is for housing prices to drop. Logic and the reality of the market dictates this as well. We have the largest supply with the fewest number of buyers in history based on recent analysis and it's going to get worse as the boomers start transferring to nursing homes and assisted living villages.

Most of the buying and selling being done right now is by boomers for boomers. Consider my parents (who are technically Silent Generation by 1 year) just built a new house..against my wishes, but it's not my money or my life. My brother and I will likely get to deal with 2 homes to sell now instead of 1 because the house they moved out of is sitting on the 18th green of a very nice golf course with literally 2 viewings in about 6 months. Nobody is buying.

I already had them drop the price once because after I checked the comps they were WAY overpriced.

This is relevant ... John Stossel on housing prices.

BusterAg said:

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If American's wanted affordable housing that would vote for politicians that don't print money.

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Is there another kind?

BusterAg said:

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I mean, $180k will buy you this beautiful 1,345 square foot single family in Katy ISD.

Why would anyone want more than this? Surely this is what you were dreaming of when you were studying for your Diffy-Q test at 2am in Evans.

https://www.har.com/homedetail/19214-lazy-valley-dr-katy-tx-77449/3505809

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Ahhhhh. Memories being brought back....Differential Equations.

Or, should I say nightmares.

My professor's research was trying to develop an equation to describe the human heartbeat. Quit a few variables in that one, lol. At least I thought that was a cool project. I hated the class, though.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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As in the value of all will drop or the reverse, they become impossible for middle class to buy??

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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And can get housing in the school district they want, with neighbors who look like them for 180k

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Maybe where you live, but not in Houston.

Living in a school district that's good costs big cash here.

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It's still not that good, better off homeschooling unless you get lucky on a good charter school, but those often have a lottery system the waiting list is so long

Or take the private school hit like we do.

EclipseAg said:

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This is relevant ... John Stossel on housing prices.

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Ask John Stossel why the first time home buyer median age has risen from 27 to 38 since he was a kid. That's not homebuyer, it's first time homebuyer, so no it's not the impact of Boomers aging.

Framing that when he was young half the workforce didn't even have a high school degree while 40% of people attain a college degree today as a good thing is wild work. That's people paying 10's of thousands to be filtered into a higher income bracket, which wasn't done in the past.

More people own homes now than they did when he was young, but that doesn't account for the distribution of homeownership. It took until COVID rate reductions for millenials to finally catch up to even remotely where Boomer homeownership rates were when they were young, and it presently still lags. An entire decade behind.


What people SPEND on their home currently is also not the same as what they have to spend to BUY a home currently. When people bought their home 10 years ago and have built a 40% equity position and refinanced into a 2 year window of 2.5% interest rates is not the same as a person trying to buy their first home at 2x prices and double the interest rate. Would be curious if that figure is also inclusive of the ~60% of Boomers who have paid their homes off accounting for around 1/4th of all homeowners.


Dumbest video I've ever seen John Stossel make.

Why are housing costs so bad?

The first two apply to the Texas market:
1. Strong economy
2. No cold winters so older generations move in to retire and older generations dont move out.
3. AirBnB
4. Ease of managing a rental property.
5. Less multigenerational homes.
6. Crap build homes that are ticking time bombs in 10-20 years.
7. Ease of vacation homes. It is so easy to travel that having multiple homes is more feasible.
8. Boomers own alot of housing. They are sitting on their investment and want to grow that portfolio.

Point 7 is especially not recession proof. Point 8 is just 10-20 years away.
Im wandering if multigenerational will make a comeback. Gen Z and Alpha are wired differently then Millenials and Gen x

titan said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

---

Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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As in the value of all will drop or the reverse, they become impossible for middle class to buy??

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They are already impossible for middle class to buy unless said middle class takes risk well above their means.

Across the board. Some areas will be hit less than others. But all will be hit.

Too many here fall into the trap of thinking every new cycle is different than previous. It's not. Hard times are coming.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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titan said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Fireman said:

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Cash flow in the house flipping business can be a ***** sometimes. Hang in there - inflation is your friend and you will come out the other side.

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Lol. No

Housing market is a dead man walking. Just wait.

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As in the value of all will drop or the reverse, they become impossible for middle class to buy??

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Too many here fall into the trap of thinking every new cycle is different than previous. It's not. Hard times are coming.

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BadMoonRisin said:

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I feel bad for people looking for houses nowadays. They are insane. I bought my first house at 25 for $150k. 4 years later sold it for 175k and bought a bigger house for 250k. It's now valued at 550k.

My old house is over double what I paid for it...and its a true starter house. 3 bed 2 bath 1600 sq ft.

My brother moved to a neighborhood near mine a few years ago at the height of covid and paid way more for it than he can likely sell it for now.

Sucks.

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We bought at the absolute high water mark in 2022. At least we got an initerest rate just under 4% I guess.

itsyourboypookie said:

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Also, the issues with homes sitting isn't a stubborn seller. It's a lack of offers. Properties that have marginal anything, won't get any offers and very few showings. Buyers take weeks to decide what to offer, if they will offer, or if they will look at 20 more houses. Buyers are looking at 10-12 houses a day some days.

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Supply curve shifted up, demand down. What normally happens to prices (assuming the seller wants to sell and is not waiting for some market change)?

I think another factor in housing prices is "keeping up with the Joneses." My grandparents built their 3/2 1,300 sq ft house in north Dallas in 1952. Raised 3 kids there. Grandmother stayed in it for 50 years. Everyone today wants bigger, flashier, modern.

hph6203 said:

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"I'm pissed off that people don't want to buy my manufactured home flips. I put gosh dang new linoleum in it, why ain't they bitin'?"

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So, is a pit bull included in the purchase or not?

The boomers passing on could lower housing prices.

Gen z not breeding could lower demand if they quit importing people.

I guess private equity could cut their nose off to spite their face and liquidate for some reason.

Still won't change the fact 60% of housing stock was built before 1980. 35% before 1960. A lot of that housing will need capital injections to be viable housing for the next owner, or something will need to be built to replace it.

And replacement/ remodel costs are through the roof.

Not sure this problem ever gets a long term solution.

I think people would be ok with buying a less than ideal home if it was in good schools with low crime

TheMasterplan said:

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I think people would be ok with buying a less than ideal home if it was in good schools with low crime

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Its kind of irritating that people have to factor that. Crime should just be suppressed. Murderers gotten rid of, anything else to chain gangs. Oddly, that might not assure the school is `good' if you have socialist bent teachers but its a start.

BusterAg said:

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I mean, $180k will buy you this beautiful 1,345 square foot single family in Katy ISD.

Why would anyone want more than this? Surely this is what you were dreaming of when you were studying for your Diffy-Q test at 2am in Evans.

https://www.har.com/homedetail/19214-lazy-valley-dr-katy-tx-77449/3505809

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Cool.

200 sqft bigger than the house I lived in San Antonio going to HS on the NE side of town back in the early to mid 80s. It was a great middle class neighborhood. Dad was a HS teacher and mom didn't work for the first few years we were there.

One of the problems is everyone wants a 2200 sqft house in the BEST neighborhoods now.

Getting an 1100 sqft house (which was plenty big enough) was normal back then...

It's amazing how that extra 1100 sqft make the houses more expensive.

Ag with kids said:

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BusterAg said:

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I mean, $180k will buy you this beautiful 1,345 square foot single family in Katy ISD.

Why would anyone want more than this? Surely this is what you were dreaming of when you were studying for your Diffy-Q test at 2am in Evans.

https://www.har.com/homedetail/19214-lazy-valley-dr-katy-tx-77449/3505809

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Cool.

200 sqft bigger than the house I lived in San Antonio going to HS on the NE side of town back in the early to mid 80s. It was a great middle class neighborhood. Dad was a HS teacher and mom didn't work for the first few years we were there.

One of the problems is everyone wants a 2200 sqft house in the BEST neighborhoods now.

Getting an 1100 sqft house (which was plenty big enough) was normal back then...

It's amazing how that extra 1100 sqft make the houses more expensive.

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Cool - and where are these houses in good schools with low crime?

Also - I'll say that house is actually ok.

TheMasterplan said:

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Ag with kids said:

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BusterAg said:

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I mean, $180k will buy you this beautiful 1,345 square foot single family in Katy ISD.

Why would anyone want more than this? Surely this is what you were dreaming of when you were studying for your Diffy-Q test at 2am in Evans.

https://www.har.com/homedetail/19214-lazy-valley-dr-katy-tx-77449/3505809

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Cool.

200 sqft bigger than the house I lived in San Antonio going to HS on the NE side of town back in the early to mid 80s. It was a great middle class neighborhood. Dad was a HS teacher and mom didn't work for the first few years we were there.

One of the problems is everyone wants a 2200 sqft house in the BEST neighborhoods now.

Getting an 1100 sqft house (which was plenty big enough) was normal back then...

It's amazing how that extra 1100 sqft make the houses more expensive.

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Cool - and where are these houses in good schools with low crime?

Also - I'll say that house is actually ok.

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Well, I lived in Weatherford for 20 years. Kids went to Brock. The amount of house you could buy out there was fantastic for the price. Left in 2017 - sold my home on 5 acres for $150k. It was about 1600 sqft. Raised 9 kids there.

But, I'm sure many people want to live in Aledo and get the 3500 sqft house on 3 acres. Then ***** because it's $650k...

And you're right. That house in Katy looked ok. Was it GREAT? Nah...but then it was good enough to raise some kids and have them go to decent schools...

Of course, maybe Katy has **** tons of crime - I doubt it though...