rab79 said:

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gdawg said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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sam callahan said:

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Add 4-H to the list

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4-h might be more woke than scouts

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Hopefully they haven't ruined FFA.

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Have you ever heard of FHA? It doesn't exist anymore but it runs FFA now.

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Nope. And I'm guessing it's not the federal housing administration?

I'm curious - doesn't some of it depend upon the charter organization? So, for example, if a church decides that they want an all-boy troop and if girls want to participate, they need to go to a troop chartered by another organization, they can do so, correct? If that is true, then I would think that the troop can be run exactly however the charter organization wants to run it and BSA changes don't really expose the troop to a lot of changes, except for possibly summer camps. Am I missing something?

maverick2076 said:

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My daughter did Girl Scouts for about a year. Between the constant sales of **** and the COVID fearmongering she had enough. When they announced they were going to do a virtual camp out she asked to quit and I was happy to let her.

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That sounds like something close to hell itself!

At minimum…BSA has a brand problem. Even if you have pockets of great troops, that doesn't fix the national brand. Get rid of leadership above and fix the brand.

CampSkunk said:

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I'm curious - doesn't some of it depend upon the charter organization? So, for example, if a church decides that they want an all-boy troop and if girls want to participate, they need to go to a troop chartered by another organization, they can do so, correct? If that is true, then I would think that the troop can be run exactly however the charter organization wants to run it and BSA changes don't really expose the troop to a lot of changes, except for possibly summer camps. Am I missing something?

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The Chartering Organization decides what type of unit they want to charter and can dictate what standards the registered leaders must meet. The unit is, in fact, a part of the Charter Organization's youth program.

So yes, your example is correct.

Thank you. Then I don't understand the kerfuffle. If someone wants to be in a troop that was just like the troops from 20 years ago, they just need to carefully shop the charter organizations and find one that matches their values.

CampSkunk said:

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Thank you. Then I don't understand the kerfuffle. If someone wants to be in a troop that was just like the troops from 20 years ago, they just need to carefully shop the charter organizations and find one that matches their values.

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Are you allowed to shop troops in Boy Scouts?

When my oldest daughter wanted to be in Girl Scouts 20 years ago, she was only allowed to join the one troop assigned to her school. She could not join any other troop in the area nor could I start another troop.

(I researched this because fiirst troop's leader and her leadership were not acceptable.)

I just became the Den Leader for Lion Cubs (Kindergarten) but I am an Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor Member in the Order of the Arrow, and have previously served on the District Level support the OA. In my teenage years I worked camp staff and we had girls on staff (explorers) and a good number of moms were involved as well. From my perspective going back to the 80s there have always been females in boy scouts in some capacity. They were just never allowed to earn rank.

Our charter organization is a Catholic Church that has a school as well. Almost all the boys are from the school but it isn't required. The boys are free to choose what Pack or Troop they want to join. We go to the one at our school which isn't the closest one to where we live.

In the end it comes down to the parents and what they want their boys to get our of scouting. You can more achievement based, service based, outdoors based or some combination. Having adults that try and live their lives by the Scout Oath and Law serve as mentors to the young boys (and girls) can only be a positive.

amercer said:

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My daughter did BSA because she was interested in climbing mountains in Alaska, not selling cookies. She got to do a ton of great trips and campouts, and leaned that she's a pretty shot with a .22

Also her girls only troop ran circles around a lot of the boys troops we crossed paths with.

My son is still in BSA, and I got roped into organizing the High Adventure trip this year. Going to take a good crew of boys down to Sea Base.

I live one of the bluest places in America, but the adults helping out with the troop are all very normal people who want their kids to get outside and learn something. BSA has lost members, but it's mostly due to the sex abuse scandals/lawsuits, not anything "woke" creeping in.

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They lost the entire LDS church due to woke creeping in. That was a huge loss.

Quote:

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Trail Life and Heritage Girls are worthy organizations as well. I would never denigrate them to try and get someone to join Scouts, so it really irks me when people try to put down Scouts to generate interest in them.

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I don't see people doing that. The interest is generated when people are looking for a more traditional organization that is more closely aligned with what Boy Scouts used to be. If "putting down Scouts" is pointing out how it's changed, then prepare to be irked because the criticisms are valid.

It's American Heritage Girls BTW.

Quote:

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Are you allowed to shop troops in Boy Scouts?

When my oldest daughter wanted to be in Girl Scouts 20 years ago, she was only allowed to join the one troop assigned to her school. She could not join any other troop in the area nor could I start another troop.

(I researched this because fiirst troop's leader and her leadership were not acceptable.)

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Yes . . . although availability obviously varies greatly depending on where you live.

North Dallas is saturated with Troops. You have the mega corps like Troop 82 and straggling little groups and some in between. There are 12 different troops all within a few miles of where I live.

redcrayon said:

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amercer said:

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My daughter did BSA because she was interested in climbing mountains in Alaska, not selling cookies. She got to do a ton of great trips and campouts, and leaned that she's a pretty shot with a .22

Also her girls only troop ran circles around a lot of the boys troops we crossed paths with.

My son is still in BSA, and I got roped into organizing the High Adventure trip this year. Going to take a good crew of boys down to Sea Base.

I live one of the bluest places in America, but the adults helping out with the troop are all very normal people who want their kids to get outside and learn something. BSA has lost members, but it's mostly due to the sex abuse scandals/lawsuits, not anything "woke" creeping in.

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They lost the entire LDS church due to woke creeping in. That was a huge loss.

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The LDS Church was already planning to leave the BSA for their own program that would be the same around the world instead of different in each country. The changes made in BSA had little to do with it. They still allow their members to participate if they wish to.

ts5641 said:

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Bob Knights Liver said:

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Based on my experiences with BSA in the 80s and 90s and my experiences with it over the past 15 years, this seems like misplaced anger. BSA units can choose to be boys only, girls only, or mixed. If a particular unit is doing db things, that's more on the leaders being dbags than the program. Maybe others here have had different experiences though.

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That shouldn't be allowed though. That's the whole point. It's BOY Scouts of America. Girls have their own. Just let the boys have Boy Scouts.

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DevilD77 said:

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Where to start?

First a little bit about me. I've been a registered Scoutmaster since 1982. In 1973, I was the Crew Leader for the first co-ed trek to go through Philmont. I am a Vigil member of the Order of the Arrow and a recipient of the Silver Beaver award for outstanding service at the Council level. I am also very active with our local Cub Packs.

First off let me address the exit of the Mormon Church from Scouting. This had been planned years before any membership changes were made by the BSA, now Scouting America. The Mormons wanted a program that would be the same for all of their members throughout the world, not different in every country. Had the Scouts stayed the same, the Mormon Church would have still left. As it is, they still allow their youth to participate in Scouts if they desire to.

Second. Anyone who knows anything about both the Scouting America program and the Girl Scout program understands they are nothing alike. While the GUSA does have an outdoor program, it is not a major part of most units whose leaders have no interest in it. They ae predominately arts, crafts, and cookie sales. When my wife was a leader, we had to reach out to every Troop in the district just to get enough interest for one back packing crew. Most of the girls who join Scouting America want the full outdoor program experience that is not offered by the GUSA.

Third. Boys can still be boys. My Troop is part of the co-ed pilot program so we have both boys and girls. They are in separate patrols. If the boys want to go off and do stupid boy things like I did when I was a Scout, they are more then able to go do so. The same for the girls. But when they are together, they learn how they are supposed to behave around and respect the opposite sex.

As for the Citizenship In Society merit badge, when done properly, it leads the Scout through a series of self explorations about how they react to and interact with people who come from a different background then themselves. It is not WOKE in the least bit. I thought it would be when they first announced it, but I was wrong.

The aim of Scouting America is to prepare the next generation of American leaders to lead, be resourceful, and self sufficient. Why should we restrict that only to our young boys?

I know, I know! Long winded pontification but it is something I am passionate about. I've seen the results over the years. I've had the pleasure of presenting more than 50 Eagle badges to my Scouts and seen them start to contribute to society. They've gone on to serve in all branches of the military. One is even a big whig with the US Navy Band. One of my Eagles is a director at the Mayo Clinic. Several are current LEOs. A couple are lawyers. None have every run afoul of the law.

Trail Life and Heritage Girls are worthy organizations as well. I would never denigrate them to try and get someone to join Scouts, so it really irks me when people try to put down Scouts to generate interest in them.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox.

BEAT THE CLASS OF '77 HELL OUT OF MISSISSIPPI STATE!

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As an Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor member, and father of two boys, and I'll summarize this for you.

"Everyone calm down, so what the water is getting just a little bit warmer, its not like it is going to boil us alive!?"

Your desire to reach for the past is blinding you to the reality of today. What you should be saying but aren't:

"The aim of Boy Scouts of America was to prepare the next generation of American men to lead, be resourceful, and self sufficient. Why shouldn't there be an organization dedicated to raising men?"

Just another organization that will eventually expect young boys to behave like girls, just like public school does.

HumbleAg04 said:

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DevilD77 said:

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Where to start?

First a little bit about me. I've been a registered Scoutmaster since 1982. In 1973, I was the Crew Leader for the first co-ed trek to go through Philmont. I am a Vigil member of the Order of the Arrow and a recipient of the Silver Beaver award for outstanding service at the Council level. I am also very active with our local Cub Packs.

First off let me address the exit of the Mormon Church from Scouting. This had been planned years before any membership changes were made by the BSA, now Scouting America. The Mormons wanted a program that would be the same for all of their members throughout the world, not different in every country. Had the Scouts stayed the same, the Mormon Church would have still left. As it is, they still allow their youth to participate in Scouts if they desire to.

Second. Anyone who knows anything about both the Scouting America program and the Girl Scout program understands they are nothing alike. While the GUSA does have an outdoor program, it is not a major part of most units whose leaders have no interest in it. They ae predominately arts, crafts, and cookie sales. When my wife was a leader, we had to reach out to every Troop in the district just to get enough interest for one back packing crew. Most of the girls who join Scouting America want the full outdoor program experience that is not offered by the GUSA.

Third. Boys can still be boys. My Troop is part of the co-ed pilot program so we have both boys and girls. They are in separate patrols. If the boys want to go off and do stupid boy things like I did when I was a Scout, they are more then able to go do so. The same for the girls. But when they are together, they learn how they are supposed to behave around and respect the opposite sex.

As for the Citizenship In Society merit badge, when done properly, it leads the Scout through a series of self explorations about how they react to and interact with people who come from a different background then themselves. It is not WOKE in the least bit. I thought it would be when they first announced it, but I was wrong.

The aim of Scouting America is to prepare the next generation of American leaders to lead, be resourceful, and self sufficient. Why should we restrict that only to our young boys?

I know, I know! Long winded pontification but it is something I am passionate about. I've seen the results over the years. I've had the pleasure of presenting more than 50 Eagle badges to my Scouts and seen them start to contribute to society. They've gone on to serve in all branches of the military. One is even a big whig with the US Navy Band. One of my Eagles is a director at the Mayo Clinic. Several are current LEOs. A couple are lawyers. None have every run afoul of the law.

Trail Life and Heritage Girls are worthy organizations as well. I would never denigrate them to try and get someone to join Scouts, so it really irks me when people try to put down Scouts to generate interest in them.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox.

BEAT THE CLASS OF '77 HELL OUT OF MISSISSIPPI STATE!

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As an Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor member, and father of two boys, and I'll summarize this for you.

"Everyone calm down, so what the water is getting just a little bit warmer, its not like it is going to boil us alive!?"

Your desire to reach for the past is blinding you to the reality of today. What you should be saying but aren't:

"The aim of Boy Scouts of America was to prepare the next generation of American men to lead, be resourceful, and self sufficient. Why shouldn't there be an organization dedicated to raising men?"

Just another organization that will eventually expect young boys to behave like girls, just like public school does.

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I will respectfully disagree with your conclusion. The boys can still be boys (and they act like it). If you are so concerned about the organization, get back involved. Any unit is only as good as it's adult volunteers.