BQ_90 said:

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Might look up the late 60s for reference

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This is what I was going to say.

I think we all feel it more because of the instantaneous reaction thanks to social media.

I think it is social media making it all seem worse. Plenty of hate, discord, and people living amongst their own when they immigrated here over prior centuries. It has always been "there".

LMCane said:

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for anyone delusional enough to believe that in 2025 Americans hate each other now MORE than they did when they were literally butchering each other:

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If you took that war away....if it was never declared...the average young men from the north and south were FAR LESS divided than modern leftists and conservatives. Of course once you start commanding hordes of men to start killing each other, it gets VERY heated. But let's pretend war was never declared and you took 20 random young men from 100 miles north of the Mason Dixon, and 20 men from 100 mi south, and put them all in a Tavern together...they would all be almost indistinguishable and would have FAR MORE in common and be far less divided than modern conservatives and leftists. They would not resort to slitting each other's necks over political differences.

Still too simple. The federal govt this century has genuinely been pushing fringe and deranged agendas. Genuinely been enabling crime. And the MSM genuinely running interference for it. You can only blame social media so much for the actions of admins like Obama second term and all of Biden's.

titan said:

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Still too simple. The federal govt this century has genuinely been pushing fringe and deranged agendas. Genuinely been enabling crime. And the MSM genuinely running interference for it. You can only blame social media so much for the actions of admins like Obama second term and all of Biden's.

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Probably true. It's a tool / tactic, not the reason.

The Collective said:

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I think it is social media making it all seem worse. Plenty of hate, discord, and people living amongst their own when they immigrated here over prior centuries. It has always been "there".

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It's not making it SEEM worse imo...it is making it actually worse.

All the leftists I know now block comments, share posts and stories with comments limited, only allowing dialogue from leftist perspectives and blocking the right from any discussion.

They genuinely dwell in this increasingly rabid buit self-reinforcing bubble. I am watching several lifelong friends, who were formerly solid conservative/libertarian Christians, lose their minds in real time. One of them just this morning posted a comparison of Hosrt Ludwig Georg Erich Wessel, a member of the paramilitary wing of the Nazi party, to Charlie Kirck...because, you see, Wessel was murdered by heroic Marxists. but then turned into a glorious martyr by the Nazi givernment...and that is EXACTLY what we are seeing with Charlie Kirck and the Trump administration.

And these are normal looking, successful family people. Not purple haired freaks with septum piercings.

whatthehey78 said:

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has the US been this divided by hate?

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6 years ago was pretty close.

I agree with your point, but not with the notion that the Rebs lamented dead Yanks or the Yanks dead Johnnies, believing otherwise, is whitewashing or romanticizing the Civil War beyond what it was.

Just a note. Be very circumspect in going against BQ78 on Civil War matters. There is not a preconception I wouldn't question about it if he told me it was false unless it was something like ironclad design.

BQ78 said:

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I agree with your point, but not with the notion that the Rebs lamented dead Yanks or the Yanks dead Johnnies, believing otherwise, is whitewashing or romanticizing the Civil War beyond what it was.

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If I ever said or implied this, I apologize. They saw them as hostile foreign invaders, for sure.

Taking away the war though, they were virtually the same young men on the north and south, in general. They certainly weren't nearly as ideologically, theologically and culturally divided.

Iron boats! They would sink, get out of here with that nonsense.

Other than the internet and political events that people that want to be divided seek out, I'm not seeing that much division.

I work with over 500 coworkers daily and have no idea what any of their political affiliations. I workout with a group of 30 or so other men and I can guess at some of their affiliations but it never comes up. I deal with my kids' teachers, coaches and their friends' parents and I have no idea what their politics are. I go to church with several hundred people and some of them talk politics but they are all pretty much on the same side so it doesn't seem divisive.

Where are you guys seeing division in your actual lives?

Posted earlier. When you are out on trips and sales, the division is there de-facto the moment you hear "orange man" and "felon" --- it doesn't manifest or `cause' division unless you are foolish or bold enough (depends on where your value is) to try to defend it. As it is many take a Texas background tacitly and suspect don't bring it up, but some do and you have to just kind of act pre-occupied with what you brought there. Even happens with neighbors --- again, the division is only if you try to counter it. Not if you play Vulcan.

BQ78 said:

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Iron boats! They would sink, get out of here with that nonsense.

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Hahah. You probably know the one Union light monitor that did just that on launch. Basically.

SquirrellyDan said:

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If you take away social media and cell phone videos a lot of this goes away. Honestly, I get around the country quite a bit for work and I have run into almost zero indication of what's going on in the country in terms of division. Ive spent time in Chicago, New York, St. Louis, Denver, and all over Texas this year and never came across anything outside of normal trash and filth in liberal run large cities.

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There is the real world and then there is the internet social media and cable news world which is a multi-billion dollar business magnifying 'us versus them' stuff to the Nth degree. And there are foreign adversaries of the United States even funding some of that pot stirring.

Another way it comes up now is if tariffs do. But that's easier to duck as genuinely don't understand granular about it enough to defend or condemn it so its easier step clear. But alot of the TDS vitriol comes out when tariffs are discussed too, so you learn the stance.

We have one administration and president that is responsibile for all this animosity and hatred. He was the primary reason we are where we are today. The hateful retoric spewed by the man from Chicago and is from the playbook of Bolesheviks.

unmade bed said:

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Other than the internet and political events that people that want to be divided seek out, I'm not seeing that much division.

I work with over 500 coworkers daily and have no idea what any of their political affiliations. I workout with a group of 30 or so other men and I can guess at some of their affiliations but it never comes up. I deal with my kids' teachers, coaches and their friends' parents and I have no idea what their politics are. I go to church with several hundred people and some of them talk politics but they are all pretty much on the same side so it doesn't seem divisive.

Where are you guys seeing division in your actual lives?

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I bet you'd be surprised to learn that there are couples who literally hate each others guts yet actually live in the same house and don't claw each others eyes out every day. I know one such couple who did it for years. In fact, if you saw them out - and they did go out with other couples - you'd never have known it.

The right has nothing in common with your side anymore. The last time we did was probably during the Clinton era. We have irreconcilable differences. It's over.

Charpie said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Might look up the late 60s for reference

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This is what I was going to say.

I think we all feel it more because of the instantaneous reaction thanks to social media.

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Was the 60's THIS divided?

I am pretty sure you could pluck any die hard hippie out of the 60's or 70's and they would be adamantly AGAINST the concept of biological males crushing women in sports and then sharing showers and locker rooms with them, forcing people to get experimental vaccinations or be fired ot imprisoned, chopping the breasts off of confused 13 y/o girls, thinking blacks are too stupid or lazy to get ID's like everyone else etc etc.

I don't know, the fringe truly has become mainstream on the left. EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT SENATOR supports men in women's sports/showers/locker rooms, for instance.

90% of democrats wanted me fired and for my family to suffer for refusing the experimental vaccine. 60% wanted me forced into lockdown. THIRTY PERCENT wanted my children taken away from me.

Millions of them truly view Charlie Kirk as an evil bigot. This is truly unprecedented.

FobTies said:

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I would think we were more divided back when black folks standing in line to vote were shot with water cannons and attacked by police dogs....by democrats of course. About a Decade later Dems were still at it with Biden opposing desegregation. And today, they are still at it saying blacks are too stupid to get a voter ID, and need DEI like a short person needs a stool....white dems think blacks have an intelligence inferiority like a height inferiority.

White leftists are the real racists, "wolves in sheep clothing, posing as the negro's friend and benefactor."
-Malcom X

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Having grown up in the Deep South i love when people bring this up. My uncles and their friends drove to Little Rock to protest the integration of Central HS. They and most of the older people I knew in my small town were staunch rebel flag waving, Baptist church going, black hating Democrats. Guess what, since the 90's they and everyone else in town became staunch rebel flag waving, Baptist church going, black hating Republicans…. Funny how that happened.

I wanted to add, I am by no means accusing anyone here of being a racist but making any assumptions about a party or it's members based on it's platform 50-200 years ago is disingenuous at best. People change, Parties change. If you are older than 50, weren't from a wealthy family and are from the South you might be shocked to know your parents, grandparents, etc probably voted straight ticket Democrat at some point in their lives.

the most cool guy said:

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It wasn't even this divided during the civil war from an ideological standpoint. The divide now isn't over different ways of governing the country. It's between people who want to preserve the country and people who want to literally destroy the country, whether they understand that is what they're voting for or not. There is no reconciling to be had.

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so you are claiming that the Confederate States of America "only wanted a different way of governing the country but not wanted to destroy the country."
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that is insane and so far detached from reality.

what do you think eleven states voting for SECESSION FROM THE UNION means?!?!

yes, it means LITERALLY to destroy the United States.

which is the entire reason hundreds of thousands of Northern men went to war!

There were LITERALLY hippies chanting for Ho Chi Minh to defeat the United States during a war against the Vietnamese!!

the lack of historical knowledge is baffling on here.

not only was there a massive amount of killings in the 1960s of political nature- there were massive protests which led to students being killed on campuses, cities burned down, assassinations, and a lost war.

there were Americans cheering for the Viet Cong and communists to defeat our men in battle in Khe Sanh.

Ironically for the same reason as today -- brainwashed by blatantly lying, unaccountable mainstream media and instructors sowing falsehoods. (More single handed back then -- today they share it with DNC )

LMCane said:

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There were LITERALLY hippies chanting for Ho Chi Minh to defeat the United States during a war against the Vietnamese!!

the lack of historical knowledge is baffling on here.

not only was there a massive amount of killings in the 1960s of political nature- there were massive protests which led to students being killed on campuses, cities burned down, assassinations, and a lost war.

there were Americans cheering for the Viet Cong and communists to defeat our men in battle in Khe Sanh.

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And those hippies were way outside the mainstream. Those Americans were on the edge. That's not the case today. The entire left is delusional. Biden said it is a sin to not allow kids to transition for **** sake. 60% of Democrats believe assassinating Trump would be justified. Get the heck out with that comparison.

LMCane said:

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the most cool guy said:

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It wasn't even this divided during the civil war from an ideological standpoint. The divide now isn't over different ways of governing the country. It's between people who want to preserve the country and people who want to literally destroy the country, whether they understand that is what they're voting for or not. There is no reconciling to be had.

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so you are claiming that the Confederate States of America "only wanted a different way of governing the country but not wanted to destroy the country."
.
that is insane and so far detached from reality.

what do you think eleven states voting for SECESSION FROM THE UNION means?!?!

yes, it means LITERALLY to destroy the United States.

which is the entire reason hundreds of thousands of Northern men went to war!

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No, it's not insane. Stop being a drama queen. I said I was talking about divide from an ideological perspective. Did the southern states try to leave? Yes. But people from the north and south would still have agreed on most fundamental truths such as, for example, (1) prosecuting criminals for committing crimes is a good thing, (2) incentivizing laziness with government handouts is a bad thing, and (3) little boys shouldn't be encouraged to have their dicks chopped off and pretend to be girls, among many more. The ideological divide is greater now, and it's not even debatable.

LMCane said:

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the most cool guy said:

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It wasn't even this divided during the civil war from an ideological standpoint. The divide now isn't over different ways of governing the country. It's between people who want to preserve the country and people who want to literally destroy the country, whether they understand that is what they're voting for or not. There is no reconciling to be had.

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so you are claiming that the Confederate States of America "only wanted a different way of governing the country but not wanted to destroy the country."
.
that is insane and so far detached from reality.

what do you think eleven states voting for SECESSION FROM THE UNION means?!?!

yes, it means LITERALLY to destroy the United States.

which is the entire reason hundreds of thousands of Northern men went to war!

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There is a flaw in this thinking. Our seceding from the British Empire certainly didn't dent them much, their best days were still ahead. Whatever other flaws the CSA had, destroying the Union was no more the goal than destroying the British Empire and monarchy was the goal of the Founders. They just wanted out from under specific rules and limits enough to fight. Moderns can hate the rules they wanted away from, but its still not the same as they would want the USA gone if they had been left able to go, anymore than USA felt that way about the British Empire they had left. (In fact, they would soon resume commerce)

Caveat- That said, if BQ78 says that was a goal of the leadership, than that is another matter.

That is an accurate representation of the Confederacy's aim, the only caveat would be that Sibley's New Mexico Campaign had as a goal to capture and annex California to get its gold. So there was a bit of empire building with that campaign.

Also I have no doubt that if the Confederacy had succeeded eventually they would have looked at Latin America and Cuba as a way to expand slavery.