aggiehawg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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I stated verifiable facts. That you don't like them doesn't make them stupid. If you don't want to be educated, your choice

And I was not aware that the thread starter owned the thread.

Facts do not have sides. Admitting that we made mistakes is not a bad thing.

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Not the point and you know that. Even the Japanese who were interned fully understood why it was done. Was it wrong, yes it was. Does that mean the manner in which POWs stateside was inhumane?

NO. How many of those videos did you watch? Even one?

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One can admit that the U.S. treated enemy POWs more gracious than any other country in the war and also treated POWs better than some servicemen in our own military. And get this…one can still love this country as well. It's really easy to do.

There was a (historically inaccurate) movie about the Battle of the Bulge, and one of the plot points was close to the story you tell

In the movie, a German officer shows a cake they took from an American private. It was wrapped in a newspaper that was only three days old. He then made the point that the American supply train was so massive and efficient, that a lowly enlisted man was getting a care package from his mother in 3 days.

And thus, the Germans had no chance of winning

CanyonAg77 said:

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There was a (historically inaccurate) movie about the Battle of the Bulge, and one of the plot points was close to the story you tell

In the movie, a German officer shows a cake they took from an American private. It was wrapped in a newspaper that was only three days old. He then made the point that the American supply train was so massive and efficient, that a lowly enlisted man was getting a care package from his mother in 3 days.

And thus, the Germans had no chance of winning

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I was just thinking about that scene. But you know it wasn't too far off. The only thing was most stuff was coming over by boat instead of airmail.

I'm pretty sure that entire channel and about ten others almost exactly like it are AI-generated slop. While they may be based ultimately on historical sources in the public domain, they are probably riddled with "hallucinations".

World War II Prisoner of War Camps in Texas

Camp Barkeley (SW of Abilene)
Camp Bowie (Brownwood)
Camp Brady (Brady)
Camp Bullis (NW of San Antonio)
Camp Fannin (Tyler)
Camp Hearne (Hearne)
Camp Hereford (Deaf Smith County)
Camp Hood (Killeen)
Camp Howze (Gainesville)
Camp Hulen (Palacios)
Camp Huntsville (Huntsville)
Camp McLean (McLean)
Camp Maxey (Paris)
Camp Mexia (Mexia)
Camp Swift (Bastrop)
Camp Wallace (Galveston County)
Camp Wharton (Wharton)
Camp White Rock (Dallas)
Camp Wolters (Mineral Wells)
Corpus Christi Naval Air Station (Corpus Christi)
Fort Bliss (El Paso)
Fort Crockett (Galveston)
Fort D. A. Russell (Marfa)
Fort Sam Houston (San Antonio)
McCloskey General Hospital (Temple)

Saw this one about German POWs applying to stay in Texas at a large rate, larger percentage than any other states.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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World War II Prisoner of War Camps in Texas

Camp Barkeley (SW of Abilene)
Camp Bowie (Brownwood)
Camp Brady (Brady)
Camp Bullis (NW of San Antonio)
Camp Fannin (Tyler)
Camp Hearne (Hearne)
Camp Hereford (Deaf Smith County)
Camp Hood (Killeen)
Camp Howze (Gainesville)
Camp Hulen (Palacios)
Camp Huntsville (Huntsville)
Camp McLean (McLean)
Camp Maxey (Paris)
Camp Mexia (Mexia)
Camp Swift (Bastrop)
Camp Wallace (Galveston County)
Camp Wharton (Wharton)
Camp White Rock (Dallas)
Camp Wolters (Mineral Wells)
Corpus Christi Naval Air Station (Corpus Christi)
Fort Bliss (El Paso)
Fort Crockett (Galveston)
Fort D. A. Russell (Marfa)
Fort Sam Houston (San Antonio)
McCloskey General Hospital (Temple)

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I believe those are the permanent camps. There were also temporary camps like those in Lufkin, Texas, including the one across the street from my mother's childhood home.


"Lufkin, Texas, hosted two World War II prisoner of war (POW) camps, one of which was a former Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) site located north of the city on Raguet Avenue and another established at the county fairgrounds.These camps held primarily German prisoners of war who were used as labor for the East Texas timber industry, working in sawmills and forestry to produce pulpwood. A former POW camp entrance wall, with a corresponding historical marker, still stands on Raguet Street in northwest Lufkin."

aggiehawg said:

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Have been going down a deep rabbit hole on this subject since I recently discovered a new youtube channel named WW2 Tales. I remember we have discussed Camp Hearne here before and there are many references to that one but also of many other camps.

The US strictly adhered to the Geneva Conventions, housing, feeding and overall living conditions were superb. They were well treated and vastly surprised by the abundance of food, electricity, prosperity, and human dignity afforded them.

But what seemed to shock them the most was the food. Both quality and quantity. Japanese, Italian, Hungarians and Germans were blown away by candy bars, Coca Cola, fresh milk bread and vegetables, desserts. Religious services, recreational activities, libraries, educational classes, musical and artistic expression not only allowed but encouraged by their "captors."

They saw firsthand how democracy worked, how Americans were fundamentally good and charitable as many POWs worked alongside American civilians on farms, in canneries and other industries to support the war efforts. Better than any propaganda campaign ever devised. Anyway I found it very interesting and a helpful reminder in this fractured time that the US is not the bad guy in the world.

ETA: Aw crap. Won't let me embed. Go to the named youtube channel to view them.

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Fredericksburg camp produced stories like this from German POWs.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Have been going down a deep rabbit hole on this subject since I recently discovered a new youtube channel named WW2 Tales. I remember we have discussed Camp Hearne here before and there are many references to that one but also of many other camps.

The US strictly adhered to the Geneva Conventions, housing, feeding and overall living conditions were superb. They were well treated and vastly surprised by the abundance of food, electricity, prosperity, and human dignity afforded them.

But what seemed to shock them the most was the food. Both quality and quantity. Japanese, Italian, Hungarians and Germans were blown away by candy bars, Coca Cola, fresh milk bread and vegetables, desserts. Religious services, recreational activities, libraries, educational classes, musical and artistic expression not only allowed but encouraged by their "captors."

They saw firsthand how democracy worked, how Americans were fundamentally good and charitable as many POWs worked alongside American civilians on farms, in canneries and other industries to support the war efforts. Better than any propaganda campaign ever devised. Anyway I found it very interesting and a helpful reminder in this fractured time that the US is not the bad guy in the world.

ETA: Aw crap. Won't let me embed. Go to the named youtube channel to view them.

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Fredericksburg camp produced stories like this from German POWs.

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Still a lot of German speakers there I bet.

Camp Barkeley here in Abilene was a POW camp. After the war 3 men who were at Barkeley elected to stay in Abilene. One was a rock mason, one was a glazer and one was a machinist. The rock mason, who I can't recall his name, was a stone mason for Kelly Masonry here. In the early 80's The Church of the Heavenly Rest Episcopal raised their bell tower, steeple. My wife's family was the general contractor on the job. He laid every stone on that job. Would not let anyone else do it. Just him and his mason tender. The glazer and machinist, both named Herman, were also successful here. Glazer either repaired or built new stain glass for many of the churches here in town. He only did stained glass. Machinist had a very successful machine shop here for man years. I was fortunate to know both of them. They have all since passed away.

KingofHazor said:

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The POW camps in America, on the other hand, did allow German POWs passes to leave the camp to work in nearby farms, towns, and homes. My guess is that we did not put our best and brightest officers in command of such camps, nor did we have high expectations for the security of and discipline within the camps.

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It was no different than prisons with trustees that aren't strictly confined to the prison walls 24/7.

My grandma told me about some of the German prisoners that would come to Palacious when she was a little girl. Camp Hulen was a POW camp just outside of Palacious. Most of the prisoners were just normal people when you got down to it. They fought for their country but otherwise were just like anybody else. The German work ethic was utilized by many of the farmers and business owners because it was really cheap, high quality labor.

Honestly she thought that the POW camp was a Hilton compared to what they had gone through on the front in Europe and most were happy to not be shot at or live in trenches. Many stayed after the war and settled in areas around the camps. She never recalls any time that her parents were worried because the POW's were given a bit of freedom or from the ones that helped her dad farm when he could afford to hire one or two for a few days.

Shameless bump.

This is who we were. Is it still who we are?

Bighunter43 said:

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https://www.kvue.com/video/news/history/269-8ec6e820-9277-49de-8a0a-55a5dcbacb78

Camp Swift between Bastrop and Elgin housed more than 10,000 German POWS. Many were loaned out to local farmers to work in agriculture, and even got paid. Some returned after the war to become citizens and I met one in the McDade area back in the late '80s.

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I work for the Keeling Center, just across the road from Camp Swift. Matter of fact, our campus was part of Camp Swift during the war. There's still a bunch of concrete foundations left throughout the area from all the prisoner dorms and storage buildings.

A lot of former prisoners migrated back to the area after the war to work on farms or buy farmland for themselves. Supposedly, within a mile or so of our campus are the graves of 4 German officers that were hung for killing an enlisted prisoner for being too familiar or informing for the Americans.

The Texas prison camps were where they sent German prisoners captured in North Africa. One of the conventions (I don't remember if it was Geneva or Hague) stated that prisoners captured must be held in a similar climate to the one from which they were captured. Most of the German prisoners stated that it was hotter here than it was there.

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One of the conventions (I don't remember if it was Geneva or Hague) stated that prisoners captured must be held in a similar climate to the one from which they were captured.

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I've been told that's why Texas got all the Italians from North Africa. Seems like a weird rule. You would think they should be held in a climate close to their home country.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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One of the conventions (I don't remember if it was Geneva or Hague) stated that prisoners captured must be held in a similar climate to the one from which they were captured.

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I've been told that's why Texas got all the Italians from North Africa. Seems like a weird rule. You would think they should be held in a climate close to their home country.

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Italians were fighting alongside the Germans in North Africa and were captured with the Germans when Rommel's Afrika Corps fell. Over two hundred thousand POWs from just there. Britain was already stressed with the number of American GIs there and there was simply no place else in Europe to hold them.

So the US stepped up to take them using the Liberty supply ships as POW transport back to the states on the deadhead runs after delivering supplies.

But Italians were also sent to POW camps in other states and colder climes, such as Minnesota New York and New Jersey.

Fun fact: After Patton and Montgomery invaded and conquered Italy, a very large percentage of the Italian POWs stateside volunteered to assist the American war efforts by helping in manufacturing jobs. They hated Mussolini and Nazi control of their homeland and wanted to help defeat Hitler.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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One of the conventions (I don't remember if it was Geneva or Hague) stated that prisoners captured must be held in a similar climate to the one from which they were captured.

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I've been told that's why Texas got all the Italians from North Africa. Seems like a weird rule. You would think they should be held in a climate close to their home country.

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What I've read was it was due to clothing.... if captured in N Africa they would have warm weather uniforms and not be prepared for the cold.

That would make sense.

Scruffy said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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One of the conventions (I don't remember if it was Geneva or Hague) stated that prisoners captured must be held in a similar climate to the one from which they were captured.

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I've been told that's why Texas got all the Italians from North Africa. Seems like a weird rule. You would think they should be held in a climate close to their home country.

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What I've read was it was due to clothing.... if captured in N Africa they would have warm weather uniforms and not be prepared for the cold.

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Of interest to the War Department were the passages that guaranteed prisoners' treatment equal to the conditions of the army in charge, and the recommendation by the Geneva Accords that prisoners be taken to a climate similar to that in which they had been captured. Since the climate most similar to that of Tunisia, where the Afrika Korps surrendered in early 1943, was the American South and, in particular, the state of Texas (although dozens of camps sprang up in Louisiana, New Mexico, and surrounding states), construction began in the Lone Star State.

It doesn't do.me any good to.post links because no one reads them

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It doesn't do.me any good to.post links because no one reads them

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I beg to differ. I have read many of the links you've posted in the "On this day in ..." thread.

Grew up hearing a lot about the POW camps in the states. Many Germans liked it so much here, they decided to stay, after the war. Lead to many communities of German ancestry. I think i remember my dad telling me the elementary or middle school he went to in the 60's was built by German POW's.

Considering what has been happening since Kirk was assassinated, the juxtaposition of the treatment of actual enemy soldiers by everyday civilians as while maybe suspicious at first truly became welcoming compared to the hatred and anger over political disputes resulting in violent deaths?

So sad how far we have fallen as a nation of Americans.

aggiehawg said:

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Have been going down a deep rabbit hole on this subject since I recently discovered a new youtube channel named WW2 Tales. I remember we have discussed Camp Hearne here before and there are many references to that one but also of many other camps.

The US strictly adhered to the Geneva Conventions, housing, feeding and overall living conditions were superb. They were well treated and vastly surprised by the abundance of food, electricity, prosperity, and human dignity afforded them.

But what seemed to shock them the most was the food. Both quality and quantity. Japanese, Italian, Hungarians and Germans were blown away by candy bars, Coca Cola, fresh milk bread and vegetables, desserts. Religious services, recreational activities, libraries, educational classes, musical and artistic expression not only allowed but encouraged by their "captors."

They saw firsthand how democracy worked, how Americans were fundamentally good and charitable as many POWs worked alongside American civilians on farms, in canneries and other industries to support the war efforts. Better than any propaganda campaign ever devised. Anyway I found it very interesting and a helpful reminder in this fractured time that the US is not the bad guy in the world.

ETA: Aw crap. Won't let me embed. Go to the named youtube channel to view them.

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Losing your homes, property, businesses, and farms forever. Everything you've worked for your whole life.

But the food was good, so there was that.

https://densho.org/catalyst/sold-damaged-stolen-gone-japanese-american-property-loss-wwii/

Well, decisions had to be made, some good and some with negative consequences.

aggiehawg said:

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Have been going down a deep rabbit hole on this subject since I recently discovered a new youtube channel named WW2 Tales. I remember we have discussed Camp Hearne here before and there are many references to that one but also of many other camps.

The US strictly adhered to the Geneva Conventions, housing, feeding and overall living conditions were superb. They were well treated and vastly surprised by the abundance of food, electricity, prosperity, and human dignity afforded them.

But what seemed to shock them the most was the food. Both quality and quantity. Japanese, Italian, Hungarians and Germans were blown away by candy bars, Coca Cola, fresh milk bread and vegetables, desserts. Religious services, recreational activities, libraries, educational classes, musical and artistic expression not only allowed but encouraged by their "captors."

They saw firsthand how democracy worked, how Americans were fundamentally good and charitable as many POWs worked alongside American civilians on farms, in canneries and other industries to support the war efforts. Better than any propaganda campaign ever devised. Anyway I found it very interesting and a helpful reminder in this fractured time that the US is not the bad guy in the world.

ETA: Aw crap. Won't let me embed. Go to the named youtube channel to view them.

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I listened to that channel and some very similar ones that have appeared. While the stories are probably true in essence, they strike me as including AI embellishments.

One one story about POWs from Germany, the story told in detail of them being deloused after arriving in the US. Someone posted a comment that said that a relative of his was involved in that and they were deloused in Europe before being put on a ship to be brought over here. The commenter's version sounds much more sensible, I think.

Also, regarding the stories of Japanese POWs, how does that match with the many stories of Japanese soldiers refusing to be taken alive?

Camp Hulen at Palacios (no u) was primarily a training base with an airfield for pilot training, and artillery machine gun and small arms training sites. You can still see the boat slips on the east side of turtle bay where the boats for recovery of aircraft crew from planes that went down in the bay were docked.

The old airfield is still an emergency landing site for large airplanes that can't make it to Houston.

Schall 02 said:

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https://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Prisoners-America-Arnold-Krammer/dp/0812885619

By a legendary A&M history professor, may he rest in peace. Fantastic.

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He was a great Prof. One of only a couple I remember by name. Great stories. Really feel lucky to have gotten his class.