so should I be buying a new home in Florida now

or renting a nice home in Florida?

FIDO*98* said:

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Property tax is immoral and goes against a fundamental principle this country was founded on

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You vote for people who raise, lower, implement or eliminate taxes. Taxation with representation.

Which fundamental principle is being violated?

LMCane said:

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so should I be buying a new home in Florida now

or renting a nice home in Florida?

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I would be going to Tennessee or Idaho.

Your insurance costs in Florida if you are near coast will be absurd. I live on the Texas coast. I know.

flown-the-coop said:

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We should make billionaires and corporations pay all taxes. So if a business makes something then sales it they pay the taxes.

That way you can eliminate property taxes and sales taxes!

DeSantis really seems to be floating on an island these days if these are his grand ideas. Maybe Hank Johnson is right about Florida.

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Trillionaires need to be taxed too. Looking at you Elon.

Ron D speaking my language.

GeorgiAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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We should make billionaires and corporations pay all taxes. So if a business makes something then sales it they pay the taxes.

That way you can eliminate property taxes and sales taxes!

DeSantis really seems to be floating on an island these days if these are his grand ideas. Maybe Hank Johnson is right about Florida.

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Trillionaires need to be taxed too. Looking at you Elon.

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Nah, trillionaires cannot exist. All wealth over $1 trillion must be ceded to the government.

caleblyn said:

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I am 1000% for...

• Paying property taxes. Too may people think that being free means that you shouldn't pay anything!
• Paying property taxes allows you to vote on local taxes. Remove Homestead! If you own a home the USA, you pay taxes. If you do not pay taxes, you do not have a vote to increase or decrease taxes!

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Does it? If i have a home in 2 places, do i get to vote in both?

The crucial difference is that a sales tax involves choices, property tax doesn't.

People choose how much money they spend, at least to some extent.

Property taxes are inviolate.

Maybe Abbott should be auditing the counties like DeSantis is doing. All we're doing is funding someone else's lifestyle because of wasteful kickbacks by County Commissioners.

Quote:

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Over the last five years, the taxpayers of Broward County have watched as the county government has increased burdens on property owners to the annual tune of over $450 million dollars in additional ad valorem tax collections. This has been part of a spending spree that has seen Broward County's annual operating budget expand by over $1.2 billion, during a time when the county's population has grown by less than 5%.

This yearand for every year to come, unless it cuts spendingthe City of Gainesville will spend at least $90 million more than it did four years ago. This increase in spending is now levied in part on Gainesville property owners, who are expected to pay 85% more in property taxes than what they paid in 2020. This is due to both a rate increase and to rising property values that should be, but have not been, offset by a corresponding cut in taxes. As a result, Gainesville's taxpayers are carrying an additional $90 million burden each year.

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flown-the-coop said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Property tax is immoral and goes against a fundamental principle this country was founded on

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You vote for people who raise, lower, implement or eliminate taxes. Taxation with representation.

Which fundamental principle is being violated?

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Property ownership. If you live in Texas, you do not own property.

FIDO*98* said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Property tax is immoral and goes against a fundamental principle this country was founded on

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You vote for people who raise, lower, implement or eliminate taxes. Taxation with representation.

Which fundamental principle is being violated?

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Property ownership. If you live in Texas, you do not own property.

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This. ALL rights devolve from the right to OWN something. Truly own it in all respects.

I absolutely support auditing counties (they usually are audited many times by big name firms who love getting paid those government rates - you may notice an inherent conflict there) and all large programs should be specifically audited.

It's a pipe dream but it shouldn't be. The insane resistance to DOGE is still playing out.

But accountability for spending taxpayer money is not just lacking, it's been nonexistent for decades. We may need small Nepal like coups in cities and states.

caleblyn said:

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I am 1000% for...

• Paying property taxes. Too may people think that being free means that you shouldn't pay anything!
• Paying property taxes allows you to vote on local taxes. Remove Homestead! If you own a home the USA, you pay taxes. If you do not pay taxes, you do not have a vote to increase or decrease taxes!

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I'm not sure you understand homestead?

People with homestead still pay property tax.
Oldies (like me) with homestead and 65+ tax cap still pay property taxes.

Moreover, if you rent, you still pay property taxes - in a pass through your landlord.


Exactly what are you for????

Hogties said:

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I agree with these concepts. Texans are so enamored with saying there is no income tax that we have become oblivious to the terrible effects of very high property taxes.

Property taxes are wealth taxes
They tax unearned gains
They mean you never own your home
They can tax retirees out of their homes
You pay no matter how much you earn that year
They are increase unpredictably and upon the whim of a small local board incentivized to ever increase revenue

Yes governments must tax the people to pay for government services and yes if property taxes are eliminated taxes will go up elsewhere (preferably sales tax in my opinion).

Property taxes are the absolute worst form of taxation.

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Pretty much nailed the big points. Great post.

Bust your ass in younger years to raise your family in a nice home. Spend your later years dumping a significant portion of your retirement (that you also busted your ass for) to pay the property taxes every year.

At least with consumption based taxes I can throttle down my spending on non essentials. With property tax I have absolutely zero control.

We should not be forced to pay property taxes on a primary residence in the state we are residents of.

A lot easier to deduct property taxes from your taxable income for those that itemize than sales taxes.

American Hardwood said:

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CDUB98 said:

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He had better have a plan to substitute that revenue or reduce spending equally, or that state is screwed.

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Uh, it's right there on the sign on the podium. Sales tax.

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Reading is hard.

If sales tax revenue fluctuates. Borrow the money. Then raise sales taxes the next year to pay off the loan.

OR - how but setting a budget with 10% surplus built in to handle fluctuations in spending across the state.

It ain't that hard if people really wanted to get out from under govt control of YOUR PROPERTY.

Texas has property tax abatement for economic development. In my area, new warehouses, solar farms, etc are paying No property taxes. No school tax or county/ city tax.

Abolish all property tax Abatements. The Tx Legislature Created the tax abatements for political donations.

Martin Cash said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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Jack my sales tax up to offset property tax. Property Tax is theft.

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But sales tax isn't? Hmmmm

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If you dont want to pay sales tax, just dont buy anything. Not a hard concept. The state will come take your house if you dont pay your property taxes, aka theft.

GeorgiAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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We should make billionaires and corporations pay all taxes. So if a business makes something then sales it they pay the taxes.

That way you can eliminate property taxes and sales taxes!

DeSantis really seems to be floating on an island these days if these are his grand ideas. Maybe Hank Johnson is right about Florida.

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Trillionaires need to be taxed too. Looking at you Elon.

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You think they aren't?

ChemAg15 said:

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Martin Cash said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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Jack my sales tax up to offset property tax. Property Tax is theft.

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But sales tax isn't? Hmmmm

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If you dont want to pay sales tax, just dont buy anything. Not a hard concept. The state will come take your house if you dont pay your property taxes, aka theft.

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Yup. Buty some land plant crops, harvest rain, live off the grid. Voila, tax free existence as it should be.

GeorgiAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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We should make billionaires and corporations pay all taxes. So if a business makes something then sales it they pay the taxes.

That way you can eliminate property taxes and sales taxes!

DeSantis really seems to be floating on an island these days if these are his grand ideas. Maybe Hank Johnson is right about Florida.

---

Trillionaires need to be taxed too. Looking at you Elon.

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Literally the highest tax payer in the history of the US.

If you're looking at Elon, you need glasses.

Hogties said:

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I agree with these concepts. Texans are so enamored with saying there is no income tax that we have become oblivious to the terrible effects of very high property taxes.

Property taxes are wealth taxes
They tax unearned gains
They mean you never own your home
They can tax retirees out of their homes
You pay no matter how much you earn that year
They are increase unpredictably and upon the whim of a small local board incentivized to ever increase revenue

Yes governments must tax the people to pay for government services and yes if property taxes are eliminated taxes will go up elsewhere (preferably sales tax in my opinion).

Property taxes are the absolute worst form of taxation.

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I generally agree with you, but, again generally, retirees can stay in their homes. They will put a lien on the house, and after you die, take it. Admittedly, I'm not sure how it works with a surviving spouse, but I suspect the same.

So taking it from heirs, which is a lot better than kicking 90 yr-olds to the street, imo.

You should be able to pay off a home and own it. The fact that Texas is a state where we are renting our property from the government forever is shameful and it's not who we are. We don't need to find other ways to make up that revenue we need to cut government spending. Yes there will be less services but that is fine. People with freedom should be self sufficient

Many Texans have become so used to the idea of high property taxes that it's hard to actually see how insidious they are. So let's look at an example of another property tax, a property tax on another piece of property that you might own, your vehicles.

In Louisiana, if you move to the state from out of state, you have to get your vehicles, licensed and registered in the state of Louisiana. Makes sense, right? Except Louisiana will tax your vehicles upon entry into the state, even if you own them outright. And these taxes are ridiculously high.

For example, if you own two brand new fancy trucks that you purchased for cash for $70,000 in the state of Texas in 2024 and paid tax title and license in Texas on those trucks you own them outright, right? Incorrect.

If you move to Louisiana the next year because you took a job there, Louisiana will require you to pay taxes on those trucks all over again simply for the privilege of having a Louisiana license plate.

So what does this mean in terms of cost and taxes? In Texas in 2024 if you bought those trucks for 70,000$ each you would've paid about $9000 in taxes. But thank God you own them out right! You'll never have to go through that expense again. Wrong.

To get those two trucks titled in Louisiana it would cost you $12,000 just to get two license plates for those two trucks because Louisiana makes you pay taxes on that property coming into the state. It doesn't matter that you've already paid the taxes in Texas. It doesn't matter that you own the trucks outright. You cannot drive those trucks unless you pay $12,000 for the privilege of licensing them in Louisiana.

Oh, and Louisiana only takes cash up front for this expense. Now imagine you have 3 kids and have stretched your budget to buy everyone a car. One of those cars may have to be sold to pay the 20,000$+ cost of getting Louisiana license plates. Insane and morally wrong.

That's the effect of property taxes on property that you already own. It's a horrible taxation system.

Quote:

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If you dont want to pay sales tax, just dont buy anything. Not a hard concept.

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if you don't want to pay property tax, just don't own any property. not a hard concept.

(but equally as dumb)

Over_ed said:

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So taking it from heirs, which is a lot better than kicking 90 yr-olds to the street, imo.

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That's like saying a cup of piss is better than a bowl of crap.

Sales tax is the most fair option. You get to control what you pay.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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They'll just end up paying a different tax.

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I'm all for a consumption tax. If you want to spend, go ahead, but there will be taxes. If you save, you shouldn't still have money stolen.

ChemAg15 said:

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Martin Cash said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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Jack my sales tax up to offset property tax. Property Tax is theft.

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But sales tax isn't? Hmmmm

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If you dont want to pay sales tax, just dont buy anything. Not a hard concept. The state will come take your house if you dont pay your property taxes, aka theft.

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Not a hard concept, but an impossible and stupid one.

-
I generally agree with you, but, again generally, retirees can stay in their homes. They will put a lien on the house, and after you die, take it. Admittedly, I'm not sure how it works with a surviving spouse, but I suspect the same.

So taking it from heirs, which is a lot better than kicking 90 yr-olds to the street, imo.

And won't that cause terrible distress to elderly homeowners who have worked their whole lives and stayed in an older home for 30 years so they and leave a nest egg inheritance to their children and grandchildren?

Maybe local tax authorities should put a bumper sticker on their car that says "I'm spending your grandchildren's inheritance"

There's no way around property taxes being a wealth tax on unrealized gains.

Finally, someone that is saying no more status quo, to say we cant replace property tax is lazy and intellectualy dishonest.

Red Red Wine said:

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If sales tax revenue fluctuates. Borrow the money. Then raise sales taxes the next year to pay off the loan.

OR - how but setting a budget with 10% surplus built in to handle fluctuations in spending across the state.

It ain't that hard if people really wanted to get out from under govt control of YOUR PROPERTY.

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Yeah, I'm not opposed to these ideas. I'm just saying that from the governmental POV they absolutely do not want to give up the consistent, steady stream of income from property taxes that almost ALWAYS rise either through tax rates or valuations.

These are bureaucracy's and the law of bureaucracy states that they will do almost anything to not go extinct. They are basically living organisms that will do anything to survive and switching them over to a stream of income that is less consistent and more nebulous than property taxes will be resisted.

They should do what the voters want, obviously, but we know how that goes with government.

Ran across this video yesterday. Guy makes a fair case against property taxes. There are some legal interpretations which I'd love to hear some of resident legal eagles breakdown.

Hogties said:

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-
I generally agree with you, but, again generally, retirees can stay in their homes. They will put a lien on the house, and after you die, take it. Admittedly, I'm not sure how it works with a surviving spouse, but I suspect the same.

So taking it from heirs, which is a lot better than kicking 90 yr-olds to the street, imo.

And won't that cause terrible distress to elderly homeowners who have worked their whole lives and stayed in an older home for 30 years so they and leave a nest egg inheritance to their children and grandchildren?

Maybe local tax authorities should put a bumper sticker on their car that says "I'm spending your grandchildren's inheritance"

There's no way around property taxes being a wealth tax on unrealized gains.

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When I purchased our current house, the local CAD sent me a letter asking me to tell them what I paid for it. I looked at their valuation. I looked at what I paid. I decided that information was none of their f'n business.