As an American, it's crazy, to me, that a country that fought a war for independence almost entirely on the basis of taxes now has such a tax heavy culture. I believe their effective tax rate in the 1770s was like 2% (Uk was like 6%)

As a Texan I pay:

Income Tax
Sales Tax on most purchases
Property Tax
Gasoline Tax
Local Gov Taxes on items/services (hotels, cell phones , etc)
Etc.


Would our founding fathers look at our country and say it's worth it for the lifestyle we now have, or that we have betrayed their foundational principles.

No. It is not worth it.

George and his boys would have been stacking bodies in DC by now.

Anyone who says it's worth it is someone you're working hard to pay for

no because for all they take it is a drop in the bucket for what they spend.

No question about it , we have betrayed our foundational principles and we should have forced things back in that direction many decades ago. That opportunity is gone and we can't change the past but maybe we can turn things back in that direction.

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As an American, it's crazy, to me, that a country that fought a war for independence almost entirely on the basis of taxes now has such a tax heavy culture. I believe their effective tax rate in the 1770s was like 2% (Uk was like 6%)

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We fought a war due to a lack of representation in the British governing body leveeing the taxes. That is a different point altogether.

And comparisons to 1776 are kind of silly. There were roughly 2.5 Million folks in the US in 1776 who lived hard and ugly lives on average. If someone was going to invade your country, it took them weeks at a minimum to even get near you. World ending devices like nukes were beyond the wildest dreams of scientists. Global trade was at a primitive level, with just a few monopolistic trading companies gouging everyone for profit. None but the wealthiest of society received formal education.

Not saying we don't need to urgently rightsize taxes and spending but "no taxes" is a utopian and unrealistic pipedream.

Of course it's not worth it. The government couldn't give a **** less about your money. But we're still among the lowest effective tax rates in first world countries so what can you do?

It's ****ing THEFT! ALL of it!!!

We basically work half the year for free, so that Vladimir in Bulgaria can get ****** operations, or some women with 5 kids by 4 dads can keep ****ing.

Meanwhile, our roads are ****, our schools are ****, our "retirement" package from the state is ****, and we import third worlders to make everything ****tier

Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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As an American, it's crazy, to me, that a country that fought a war for independence almost entirely on the basis of taxes now has such a tax heavy culture. I believe their effective tax rate in the 1770s was like 2% (Uk was like 6%)

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We fought a war due to a lack of representation in the British governing body leveeing the taxes. That is a different point altogether.

And comparisons to 1776 are kind of silly. There were roughly 2.5 Million folks in the US in 1776 who lived hard and ugly lives on average. If someone was going to invade your country, it took them weeks at a minimum to even get near you. World ending devices like nukes were beyond the wildest dreams of scientists. Global trade was at a primitive level, with just a few monopolistic trading companies gouging everyone for profit. None but the wealthiest of society received formal education.

Not saying we don't need to urgently rightsize taxes and spending but "no taxes" is a utopian and unrealistic pipedream.

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A government that takes from its productive to fund anything more than defense, infrastructure, and most basic emergency common welfare (with appropriate checks and balances) is a parasitic government. And not what was intended in the US. It's not utopian to want to go back to where you keep the majority of the fruits of YOUR labor.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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We basically work half the year for free, so that Vladimir in Bulgaria can get ****** operations, or some women with 5 kids by 4 dads can keep ****ing.

Meanwhile, our roads are ****, our schools are ****, our "retirement" package from the state is ****, and we import third worlders to make everything ****tier

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this is a really succinct answer. saving it for future use

So you are against Trump's massive tariff taxes and deficit spending?

DrEvazanPhD said:

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We basically work half the year for free, so that Vladimir in Bulgaria can get ****** operations, or some women with 5 kids by 4 dads can keep ****ing.

Meanwhile, our roads are ****, our schools are ****, our "retirement" package from the state is ****, and we import third worlders to make everything ****tier

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Lots of victimhood. Try enjoying life a little.

JohnClark929 said:

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So you are against Trump's massive tariff taxes and deficit spending?

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Trump didn't invent deficit spending.

But yes, I'm against it. We need massive cuts to transfer payments.

Depends on which line you live on here:

If you're a net payer responsible for funding the blue line...they're not worth it.

If you're on the receiving end of the the green line and your livelihood is as a result of government giving you money, they're a pretty good deal.

If they actually only spent the taxes on the things that they were supposed to be used for, I could be persuaded.

Examples:
1. Roads (all road infrastructure, including bridges, interstates, local streets, etc.) I drive in DFW every day, and the streets in Dallas in particular are in horrific shape. Pot holes, warped roads creating unplanned speed bumps, holes (literal holes) in bridges and overpasses. Which taxes were supposed to pay for the basic road maintenance?

2. Defense. How about we only pay our defense and quit manufacturing wars in other places?

3. Water and sewage. Oh wait, I get charged that on my monthly water bill....technically not a tax, but a user fee.

That's about it as far as justifiable taxes.

No. EOT.

The founding fathers would want to know why you let the women out of the kitchen.

JohnClark929 said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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We basically work half the year for free, so that Vladimir in Bulgaria can get ****** operations, or some women with 5 kids by 4 dads can keep ****ing.

Meanwhile, our roads are ****, our schools are ****, our "retirement" package from the state is ****, and we import third worlders to make everything ****tier

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Lots of victimhood. Try enjoying life a little.

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Roads are ***** Schools are ***** Crime is through the roof so law enforcement on the whole, and not the brave individuals who are serving, is *****

And the politicians who made all this **** possible - also *****

And I enjoy life - immensely.

No.

Never knew it was optional

Tax is theft

We should not be paying one red cent in taxes.

No. Taxes are not worth it.

Before 1913 I believe the government was funded by tariffs. Would be great to go back to that

JohnClark929 said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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We basically work half the year for free, so that Vladimir in Bulgaria can get ****** operations, or some women with 5 kids by 4 dads can keep ****ing.

Meanwhile, our roads are ****, our schools are ****, our "retirement" package from the state is ****, and we import third worlders to make everything ****tier

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Lots of victimhood. Try enjoying life a little.

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I love my life. Try getting a job.

It's never ending. I read recently the average person works until mid June each year to pay their taxes. So nearly half of everything you make goes to taxes directly or indirectly.

It has been a parasitic relationship between the tax payers and the tax recipients for a long time.

It isn't about 'representation'.

Of course it's about representation. Unfortunately, a large group of the people represented want to fund things that government has no business funding. And before you say it's a bunch of people who are voting funds for themselves realize that a lot of those liberals with purple hair and tattoos have jobs and pay into the system. They just have a flawed idea of what government should do.

If we are talking about net federal income taxes, they really are not paying in anything of consequence. The top 25% of earners pays 87% of net federal income taxes.

Let that sink in. How could representation ever address that when 3/4 are almost completely detached from the consequences of their vote?

Hagen95 said:

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The founding fathers would want to know why you let the women out of the kitchen.

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And they would be correct to ask.

rocky the dog said:

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Not quite accurate. There are plenty of people out there that make money off our taxes.

Tom Fox said:

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If we are talking about net federal income taxes, they really are not paying in anything of consequence. The top 25% of earners pays 87% of net federal income taxes.

Let that sink in. How could representation ever address that when 3/4 are almost completely detached from the consequences of their vote?

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Political donations = voice in government
Voice in government = representation
Wealth = ability to provide political donations
QED

Tell me you need money to pay soldiers, or for medical care for veterans, I'm in. How much do you need?

Tell me you need parts for a fighter jet, sure thing. I'll send a check.

Tell me you are going to repair the highway I drive on regularly. Sure. Where do I send the money?

But I know damn good and well that every penny they are stealing from me is going to pay crack *****s on welfare to have more kids, and foreign aid to nations that burn our flag.

So eff them all!