Pennsylvania v Mimms
Graham Vs Connor
Tennessee Vs Garner

Like it or not the SCOTUS, across many different court make ups, going on generations of different challenges, has given law enforcement extremely wide lattitude in getting their job done.

LeonardSkinner said:

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From a local source,
https://jaxtoday.org/2025/07/21/civil-rights-groups-condemn-violent-jacksonville-arrest/

"In a news conference Monday evening, Sheriff T.K. Waters said the department is reviewing whether any of the officers violated Sheriff's Office policies. He said one of the officers, identified as D. Bowers, has been stripped of his law enforcement duties until the department's review is done.

The State Attorney's Office has determined that none of the officers violated criminal law, Waters said."

"McNeil has no record of prior arrests in Jacksonville. He was jailed for one day, then was found guilty during a court hearing of resisting an officer without violence and driving with a suspended license. Charges of marijuana possession, driving without headlights in the rain and driving without a seat belt were dismissed, his court file shows."

I'm sure the reporter just had a couple of typos, and fully intended to write 40 years, $500k, and incarceration in Georgia.

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So that makes him...lucky? Every county has its own justice system. The 14th amendment applies to hanging chads more than it does to the average driver.

SunTunnel said:

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TexAgs thoughts on this one? Sorry if it's a double post.

A man in Jacksonville, FL was stoppedapparently for not having headlights on, though it was daytime.
The driver calmly asked what law he had broken.
Instead of providing an explanation or deescalating, the officer quickly escalated, smashed the window, and began striking him.
The officer never clearly stated the legal reason for the stop prior to the violence.

What is it with some cops that they go straight to violence over something as minor as a traffic stop? I get that policing is stressfulbut that doesn't justify acting like you're above the law. This man was calm, simply asking what law he broke, and got punched in the face for it.

Unions often shield bad officers, and even when they get fired, many just get rehired in another department. How is that okay?

This feels completely over the top. Broad daylight, no sign it was raining, and he was stopped for "not having headlights on." Watch it yourself and tell me this wasn't excessive. I believe the cops now have said he was reaching for a knife, but I didn't see any such thing happen. Yep, can apply the 24 (or is it 48) hour rule if you like…

https://metro.co.uk/2025/07/21/officer-smashes-car-window-punches-driver-stopped-not-headlights-23712420/

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I'm sure this is not the entire, complete story. Why is it that some people post things without providing proper context?

LeonardSkinner said:

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From a local source,
https://jaxtoday.org/2025/07/21/civil-rights-groups-condemn-violent-jacksonville-arrest/

"In a news conference Monday evening, Sheriff T.K. Waters said the department is reviewing whether any of the officers violated Sheriff's Office policies. He said one of the officers, identified as D. Bowers, has been stripped of his law enforcement duties until the department's review is done.

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LOL. He punched the driver twice as seen on the vid. This has been under investigation and review for 5 months!

Regardless of what you think about the driver's action, the cop should be gone! The sheriff is just protecting his employee with no regard for the facts.


Also from that article. They filed a false report too:

Quote:

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The arrest report does not indicate that any force was used on McNeil, although its author states that McNeil "complained that his tooth was chipped.

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I don't know what that makes him. It's more that it makes you wrong, in this instance.

I'm not sure it has been under investigation for five months. Elsewhere in that same article, Sheriff Waters notes that the complainant didn't bring this up until recently, long after the incident actually occurred.

He suspended a deputy, pending the investigation. No halfway decent supervisor is going to fire someone right away. And, again, I'm aware of more than a few instances where Sheriff Waters goes from firing a deputy to arresting that deputy to a press conference announcing it within hours.

First: Minor situation that was made infinitely worse.

Second: I'd hate to be a cop these days.

Last: I don't give the police any reason to drag my ass out of a car unless it's on fire and I am unconscious. They have a gun and a badge. I have an attorney. Say as little to the officer as possible, follow officer's instructions, fight whatever citation is received in court. No reason for things to escalate to this level...none.

Perhaps you are right.

Logos Stick said:

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LeonardSkinner said:

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From a local source,
https://jaxtoday.org/2025/07/21/civil-rights-groups-condemn-violent-jacksonville-arrest/

"In a news conference Monday evening, Sheriff T.K. Waters said the department is reviewing whether any of the officers violated Sheriff's Office policies. He said one of the officers, identified as D. Bowers, has been stripped of his law enforcement duties until the department's review is done.

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LOL. He punched the driver twice as seen on the vid. This has been under investigation and review for 5 months!

Regardless of what you think about the driver's action, the cop should be gone! The sheriff is just protecting his employee with no regard for the facts.


Also from that article. They filed a false report too:

Quote:

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The arrest report does not indicate that any force was used on McNeil, although its author states that McNeil "complained that his tooth was chipped.

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Funny. The arrest report is linked in the article. And it clearly says "Physical force was applied to the suspect…"

More typos.

It also says this:

The suspect was reaching for the floorboard of the vehicle where a large knife was sitting.

I watched the vid and that is a false statement by the LEO.


The LEO is going to be fired and the department is going to be sued, imo.

Logos Stick said:

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LeonardSkinner said:

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From a local source,
https://jaxtoday.org/2025/07/21/civil-rights-groups-condemn-violent-jacksonville-arrest/

"In a news conference Monday evening, Sheriff T.K. Waters said the department is reviewing whether any of the officers violated Sheriff's Office policies. He said one of the officers, identified as D. Bowers, has been stripped of his law enforcement duties until the department's review is done.

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LOL. He punched the driver twice as seen on the vid. This has been under investigation and review for 5 months!

Regardless of what you think about the driver's action, the cop should be gone! The sheriff is just protecting his employee with no regard for the facts.


Also from that article. They filed a false report too:

Quote:

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The arrest report does not indicate that any force was used on McNeil, although its author states that McNeil "complained that his tooth was chipped.

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Who knows what threats they made to the prisoner about reporting the punch. Filing that false report should make the entire case go away immediately, with all fees, lost wages, and compensation for the injury going to the prisoner.

I don't condone the driver's license violation, but there should be zero tolerance for lying LEO.

Unfortunately, even though HS debate team member could easily get the officers' testimony thrown out, the judge may simply do what he wants if the prisoner has even a competent public defender. Huge conflict of interest for the judge to even know if the defense attorney is being paid or not.

McNeil shopped around and got Ben Crump. Of course the JSO is going to get sued. I'm of the opinion that this fact has little to do with the actual truth and merit of the case.

Here is the full video, not just what the media wants people to see.

LOL, this is hilarious. The cop pulled him over for headlights not being on. Notice the headlights on the backup police vehicle that shows up to assist. They are not on:

Rapier108 said:

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Here is the full video, not just what the media wants people to see.

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The citizen could have responded better, but at no point did he present any credible threat to law enforcement or the public. Further, the pretense for the stop in broad daylight, when he undoubtedly was one of countless drivers not using headlights, reflects very poorly on the officers.

I have a disabled son who has a speech impediment and limited mobility. I also have an older Kia, in which the doors and windows don't work great. He would not have survived the punch that man was given, and because of his CP, he would fail a field sobriety test. His ethnicity is non-majority. If physical abuse is the penalty for minor verbal non-compliance, this is really messed up. Putting the current over/under on ex-wives for the guy who threw the punch at 1.5.

Logos Stick said:

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LOL, this is hilarious. The cop pulled him over for headlights not being on. Notice the headlights on the backup police vehicle that shows up to assist:

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So embarrassing. The sheriff has a thankless job managing that many people with average intelligence and questionable ethics.

94chem said:

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Logos Stick said:

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LOL, this is hilarious. The cop pulled him over for headlights not being on. Notice the headlights on the backup police vehicle that shows up to assist:

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So embarrassing. The sheriff has a thankless job managing that many people with average intelligence and questionable ethics.

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It was a total bull**** stop.

It was 100% a DWB stop. And shameless in how lazy he was to come up with a reason

That said, the citizen has to realize he's not winning that argument on the side of the road. The cop showed you his colors with the bull**** stop; you aren't going to reason your way out of it because he already knows his reason for the stop is fabricated

DannyDuberstein said:

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It was 100% a DWB stop. And shameless in how lazy he was to come up with a reason

That said, the citizen has to realize he's not winning that argument on the side of the road. The cop showed you his colors with the bull**** stop; you aren't going to reason your way out of it because he already knows his reason for the stop is fabricated

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My adopted children are from Asia and eastern Europe. But I have a friend who adopted from Africa. When they became teenagers, she had distinct conversations with them about motor vehicle conduct. They live in Nebraska. Level-headed Christian people, but they know how things work and don't pretend to be oblivious to it.

Florida statute 316.217 (1)(b)
Paraphrasedlights are required to be on during rain, smoke, or fog.
February 19th, it was raining pretty much all day; I checked the local news and you can see precipitation on the passenger side windows.

Call it a pretext if you want, but it was a legitimate reason to be pulled over, even if McNeil didn't want to hear it. So when he slams the door shut and starts doing all that "it's not raining," or "you didn't tell me the reason," or "show me the law" stuff, it's all a moot argument.

Honestly, I thought Bowers sounded bored and exasperated when talking at McNeil, not angry or aggressive. Bowers barely reacted when McNeil opened the door, which is typically something you never want a driver to do.

Once he decided to arrest McNeil, then the die is cast. McNeil trying to negotiate with the other deputy was pointless.

Bowers asked for license, registration, and insurance. McNeil, knowing that he has a suspended license, shut the door and locked himself in. Driving with the suspended license might get him arrested and searched, so they'd find the marijuana in his pocket. Potential weapon on the floorboard is just icing on the cake.

The truth of the matter is that while Bowers may have done one thing wrong, McNeil did everything wrong. Arguing otherwise is just buying into the race baiting.

And, for what it's worth, 316.217(4) lists conditions in which law enforcement vehicles are not required to have their headlights on. I don't have the JSO manual handy, but it may be that they followed procedure.

Martin Cash said:

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BCO07 said:

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Couple of things after reading this and watching the video

1. If the rolls were reversed and the guy punched the cop they would have killed him. In this case, the officer MAY get fired. Abuse of power by police should come with mandatory prison time

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That's a bit of reach, don't you think? MURDER doesn't even come with mandatory prison time.

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I don't think so give the incredible disparity of power in that situation. You are literally helpless. If a cop feels like beating the hell out of you your options are to sit back and take it or die with relatively minimal repercussions for the cop. Even if they get canned they just get a job at another department. There is no other situation in life that I can think of that's similar

You are working too hard to justify the cops behavior, including trying to excuse them for not having their lights on which is the ****ing law! Are they also allowed to not have their headlights on at night because of some law you are desperately trying to parse?! Laws for thee but not for me. Give me a break!

I hope the cop is fired and the department loses the lawsuit for excessive force and falsifying their report. They deserve it. Just because we've seen way too many instances of POCs acting out and deserving to have their rear ends beat, this was not one of those cases.

I'm done with this thread until the final outcome. Based on the rhetoric from this sheriff, I expect the cop to skate.

There was nothing legitimate about the reason to pull over. I have a habit to stop reading a post once I hit the first heaping pile of bull****, so no comment on the rest

What I can't stand are **** cops like this that give the race baiters any kind of leg at all to stand on. It was a horse**** stop. It's ok to admit that.

Logos Stick said:

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You are working too hard to justify the cops behavior, including trying to excuse them for not having their lights on which is the ****ing law! Are they also allowed to not have their headlights on at night because of some law you are desperately trying to parse?! Laws for thee but not for me. Give me a break!

I hope the cop is fired and the department loses the lawsuit for excessive force and falsifying their report. They deserve it. Just because we've seen way too many instances of POCs acting out and deserving to have their rear ends beat, this was not one of those cases.

I'm done with this thread until the final outcome. Based on the rhetoric from this sheriff, I expect the cop to skate.

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Chill, bro.

I pointed out that there is an exception to the headlight requirement, within the same statute. A police vehicle could have its lights off while on a stakeout or something. Or maybe the sheriff said they didn't have to. Kind of a dumb "gotcha" if that's what you're focusing on.

Waters is not my sheriff, he's from the county next door. But since I'm a Lechler punt away from the county line, I'm there often. From what I've seen, he's done well.

So it comes down to who I trust and believe more: T K Waters or Ben Crump. Not really a hard question.

I see a bunch of dry pavement, dry cops, dry hair, and dry arrestee even after rolling around on the ground in such inclement conditions.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I see a bunch of dry pavement, dry cops, dry hair, and dry arrestee even after rolling around on the ground in such inclement conditions.

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Three minute mark in Rapier's bodycam video. McNeil's car is wet.
And a local news weather report from that day; https://www.news4jax.com/weather/2025/02/19/wednesday-morning-commuters-slated-to-encounter-heavy-rain-heres-what-to-know/

And the post on cop's car was bone dry when he got out. It was a few sprinkles at most, not "inclement weather"

BTW, that's a forecast that you posted. You know the weather guys aren't always right, right? Those radars aren't worth the pixels they are posted on. If you can't be honest and admit it's clear the weather in those video is clearly not "turn your lights on inclement weather", there's no point to this.

Okay, chief. Obviously, we're not going to come to any kind of agreement about this, so I'm just going to let it go. Since I do live here, I'm sure I'll hear about whatever the resolution is. If we haven't moved on to the next cause du jour, I'll let you know what happens.

Yeah. Not saying the cop was justified but there's got to be a lot more going on here imo.

Prosecutors cleared the officer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq68z8e0v50o

Quote:

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A Florida police officer who was suspended after punching a driver in the face during a traffic stop will not face criminal charges for his actions, prosecutors say.

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The article says that he stopped at a house that was under surveillance for drug activity. It is possible that is bs, but I'm assuming it's true. He stopped at the house, so they came up with a reason to pull him over to see what he had. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just adding context to the story.

Meh, I wouldn't even have fired the cop. Just don't care anymore. Beat him up if you need to, doesn't bother me. I have absolutely zero empathy for these whiny beaches that think they can sit there all day and argue with officers and not comply. I would implement a three ask rule "sir, please step out of the vehicle." And if he still hasn't after the third, I force him out and arrest him. That's it. Argue in court, not on the road. Cops have the hardest job in America and I don't care what happens to criminal losers who simply want to make their jobs harder. "bUt hE pUNcHeD hIM!!!!!!" lol. Much more of a slight push than a punch, but there has been a TON of estrogen on this thread so far, so not surprised. I have been pulled over countless times and given many tickets. Some I thought were unjust, some were pathetic, but I never got beat up or arrested. Not a single time. Many I defeated in court. It isn't hard to not be a criminal loser. This guy should have tried that. And none of this would have happened.

Yeah, still making the news around here. But honestly, there's nothing "new" about it. If you are on the officers' side, you'll say "See? He was cleared."
If you're on the driver's side, you'll say "See? Of course they cleared him."

And nobody actually feels any different than they did before.