flown-the-coop said:

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Logos Stick said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Logos Stick said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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What would you do if you were president, op?

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I would require idiots to try to learn what CPI YoY is.

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Are you one of those that thought we were going to fix our deficit and debt without difficulties and sacrifice? You sound like it.

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So on the one hand, we pass a tax cut, and on the other we give back by paying tariffs. If that sounds dumb, it's because it is.

You've gone from national security, to building up manufacturing, to paying off the debt and reducing the deficit. Tariffs are magic! They do it all.

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We are collecting tariffs not paying them.

Tariffs are magic and Trump has been a wizard at wielding the
.

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Yes, collecting them from US consumers.

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Yep, been debunked over and over and over. But if you hate Trump, you hate anything he does. And you can never admit he was right, particularly on tariffs.

Check your info on who pays the tariffs.

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Not debunked at all.

So explain how we collect them and from whom? If a company simply lowers its prices to eat the tariffs, we aren't collecting anything. So Canada is sending us a check?

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No, tariffs are collected at import. Cash only, no checks or IOUs.

Do you really not understand how tariffs work? Eating the tariff means some paid the tariff and did not pass that cost along. Not that it's not collected paid.

And we have collected over $100 billion thus far and projected to collect $300 billion total by end of this fiscal year in September.

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And that cost is passed on to the sellers at the very least. So if not the consumers, the US companies are paying the taxes, which means lower profits which means lower wages for workers, and lower dividends and cap gains, which hurts everyone invested in the market.

I bet you also believe that corporate taxes are not passed on to consumers, right?!

BigRobSA said:

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Tariffs and other liberal fiscal policy.

Cut taxes
Gut spending
Deregulate

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Read the room in Congress. Tell me your plan. The clock is ticking.

Logos Stick said:

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Canada, China and the rest of the world are paying off our national debt.

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I call BS. Congress will just increase spending.

"He apologized during sex. Twice, for the same thrust."

9dag said:

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Urban Ag said:

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What do we really need from Canada?

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Potash

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And nickel.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tariffs and other liberal fiscal policy.

Cut taxes
Gut spending
Deregulate

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Read the room in Congress. Tell me your plan. The clock is ticking.

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So because it'll be hard, sans leadership at the top, we should exacerbate via MORE liberalism?

Bold move, Cotton

The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

BigRobSA said:

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Tariffs and other liberal fiscal policy.

Cut taxes
Gut spending
Deregulate

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Amen

GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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Even if Trump convinced people he wasn't going to change them, because they aren't coming from a Congressionally approved law or trade deal, the next President could gut them. If we really want to use tariffs to bring back manufacturing, we need Congress to approve the tariffs so businesses have more faith they can rely on them for protection. Maybe our founding fathers knew something when they gave this power to Congress and not the President in the US Constitution.

PS. Yes I know Congress could always change them in the future but that is a lot less likely than having a single person, the US President, setting tariff rates.

GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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Trump isnt even that relevant to bringing manufacturing back due to Trumps tariffs. The cost of tooling up, facilities...etc will be a ROI far beyond Trump 3.5 remaining years.

Its the next POTUS and POTUS after that, that need to retain tariffs that would really move the needle but thats far from a garuntee

Ag_of_08 said:

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We do pay the tarrifs. I don't know why yall refuse to accept basic reality...

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Show me in the inflation numbers

GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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If manufacturing comes back on shore, it will be because of AI and robotics, not because of these tariffs. That means very few jobs will be created.

Kansas Kid said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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Even if Trump convinced people he wasn't going to change them, because they aren't coming from a Congressionally approved law or trade deal, the next President could gut them. If we really want to use tariffs to bring back manufacturing, we need Congress to approve the tariffs so businesses have more faith they can rely on them for protection. Maybe our founding fathers knew something when they gave this power to Congress and not the President in the US Constitution.

PS. Yes I know Congress could always change them in the future but that is a lot less likely than having a single person, the US President, setting tariff rates.

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Good point and they should do that while they have the house and senate. And I am all for tariffs on countries that tariff us and for key industries I don't know all the details but Trump has been winning on everything so far so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Urban Ag said:

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What do we really need from Canada?

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Real answers I'm aware of:

1. Potash. We have some (NM), but will need to import it from either Russia or Canada if you like food grown on a modern industrialized scale.

2. Heavy crude to blend with light shale oil. Will likely have to come from either Canada or Venezuela.

3. SPF / whitewood lumber - already getting appearance grade stuff from Scandinavia. SYP is great but not for everything. And yes, we could just use SYP if we absolutely had to, my house from 1890 confirms this.

Urban Ag said:

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What do we really need from Canada?

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Quote:

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1. Potash. We have some (NM), but will need to import it from either Russia or Canada if you like food grown on a modern industrialized scale.

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Just realized that's what was going on with the manmade mountains of white stuff that I saw on a trip to Carlsbad Caverns a few years ago. So NM is actually good for something besides tourism? Who would have thunk it

GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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precisely. which in practice means trump's tariffs accomplish nothing but raise prices and stifle the market.

BigRobSA said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tariffs and other liberal fiscal policy.

Cut taxes
Gut spending
Deregulate

---

Read the room in Congress. Tell me your plan. The clock is ticking.

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So because it'll be hard, sans leadership at the top, we should exacerbate via MORE liberalism?

Bold move, Cotton

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Keep moving those goalposts.

jamey said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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Trump isnt even that relevant to bringing manufacturing back due to Trumps tariffs. The cost of tooling up, facilities...etc will be a ROI far beyond Trump 3.5 remaining years.

Its the next POTUS and POTUS after that, that need to retain tariffs that would really move the needle but thats far from a garuntee

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So much of this Trump is very unlikely to be president in 4 years Id be surprised every modern manufacturing could add a shift or a production line in 3 years
Shortage of tooling and workers is kind of a problem

Old McDonald said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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precisely. which in practice means trump's tariffs accomplish nothing but raise prices and stifle the market.

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Biden voters communing over their understanding of tariffs and Trump.

I always like the comments that "Trump changes them all the time" provides insight into how limited the understanding is of complex negotiations.

People should relax and wait for things to play out. And the markets and people who opine on them are making money off the rhetoric that Trump is a TACO.

Useful lemmings are useful I suppose.

I'm waiting... I'm taking Valtrex for my TDS. There may be a flare up down the road, but Trump has been nails thus far...

Logos Stick said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Logos Stick said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Logos Stick said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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What would you do if you were president, op?

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I would require idiots to try to learn what CPI YoY is.

---

Are you one of those that thought we were going to fix our deficit and debt without difficulties and sacrifice? You sound like it.

---

So on the one hand, we pass a tax cut, and on the other we give back by paying tariffs. If that sounds dumb, it's because it is.

You've gone from national security, to building up manufacturing, to paying off the debt and reducing the deficit. Tariffs are magic! They do it all.

---

We are collecting tariffs not paying them.

Tariffs are magic and Trump has been a wizard at wielding the
.

---

Yes, collecting them from US consumers.

---

Yep, been debunked over and over and over. But if you hate Trump, you hate anything he does. And you can never admit he was right, particularly on tariffs.

Check your info on who pays the tariffs.

---

Not debunked at all.

So explain how we collect them and from whom? If a company simply lowers its prices to eat the tariffs, we aren't collecting anything. So Canada is sending us a check?

---

No, tariffs are collected at import. Cash only, no checks or IOUs.

Do you really not understand how tariffs work? Eating the tariff means some paid the tariff and did not pass that cost along. Not that it's not collected paid.

And we have collected over $100 billion thus far and projected to collect $300 billion total by end of this fiscal year in September.

---

And that cost is passed on to the sellers at the very least. So if not the consumers, the US companies are paying the taxes, which means lower profits which means lower wages for workers, and lower dividends and cap gains, which hurts everyone invested in the market.

I bet you also believe that corporate taxes are not passed on to consumers, right?!

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Corporate taxes are passed on to consumers many times as people accept it more like a sales tax. And to an extent, people will accept a small tariff the same way.

But the tariffs Trump is levying are intended not as a tax but to drive fairer trade with the US. When you understand this, you understand the end game and its benefits.

It's been shown time and again that when the supplying countries rely on the consumer country for their economic success, the consumer country has pretty much unlimited pricing power over the supplier country.

The US is the biggest consumer country probably in the history of the universe, enjoy it, it's the position you want to be in. But we have allowed other countries to reach their hands up our skirt free of charge. That time is over.

So, it becomes rather irrelevant who pays the tariffs but for the time being we will be collecting hundreds of billions back from the supplier countries until they decide to quit reaching up the skirt.

US companies are NOT suffering from the tariffs, neither are the US consumers. Not at all. Nor will they.

I don't think these tariffs are even meant to spur domestic manufacturing directly . They are meant to change behaviors of other countries policies wrt trade (and some other things) via restructuring trade deals which perhaps will longer term spur domestic economic activity. Maybe wouldn't be needed if we had negotiated better trade deals in the past . It's about deal making.

i'm very familiar with trump's masterful and genius use of tariffs:

step 1: trump announces a blanket tariff
"hell yeah this will bring back jobs, trump keeps winning"

step 2: trump pauses the tariff soon after it goes into effect
"hell yeah art of the deal, trump keeps winning"

step 3. see step 1

Aggie1205 said:

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Why is he upset about the rates affecting our dairy farmers when he was the one who negotiated them in the first place?

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So Trump sets tariffs rates that Canadian government charges their citizens. He must be the freaking President of Canada too!

Funky Winkerbean said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tariffs and other liberal fiscal policy.

Cut taxes
Gut spending
Deregulate

---

Read the room in Congress. Tell me your plan. The clock is ticking.

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Will they hear this second hand?

Muh taxes are good.

It's telling how many of you can't answer a direct question.

GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

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Major companies announce billions in new U.S. manufacturing investments
Apple - $500 billion U.S. investment
TSMC - $165 billion in U.S. chip manufacturing
Nividia - First ever U.S.- based chip and supercomputer manufacturing
Johnson & Johnson - $55 billion in domestic Pharma facilities
Eli Lilly - Four new U.S. Pharma plants
G.E. Aerospace - $1 billion supply chain expansion
Hyundai - $21 billion investment through 2028
Chobani I $21 billion dairy facility in New York
Cra-Z-Art - 50% production boost
Honda - Civic Hybrid Production shifts to Indiana

Ultimately, I think most of these will go away once Trump extracts minor concessions, but it's shocking how many "Republicans" genuinely believe a freakin sales tax is somehow going to fix most of what's wrong with our country.

Because that's the only problem this administration is working on, right?

Sq 17 said:

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jamey said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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The problem is the tariffs aren't going to encourage manufacturing here because Trump has waffles on them so much.

No business in its right mind would count on the tariffs staying at what they are because Trump changes them all the time.

---

Trump isnt even that relevant to bringing manufacturing back due to Trumps tariffs. The cost of tooling up, facilities...etc will be a ROI far beyond Trump 3.5 remaining years.

Its the next POTUS and POTUS after that, that need to retain tariffs that would really move the needle but thats far from a garuntee

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So much of this Trump is very unlikely to be president in 4 years Id be surprised every modern manufacturing could add a shift or a production line in 3 years
Shortage of tooling and workers is kind of a problem

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Agreed. If there is something we already make here, an added shift could work using the same facility and tooling. I do think the employee base would be very
thin



But widgets we don't make at all. I dont see anyone putting up the capital for that on a 3.5 year POTUS and his tariffs that could be gone in 4 years

AI and robotics could factor in eventually but thats not really a tariff thing.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tariffs and other liberal fiscal policy.

Cut taxes
Gut spending
Deregulate

---

Read the room in Congress. Tell me your plan. The clock is ticking.

---

So because it'll be hard, sans leadership at the top, we should exacerbate via MORE liberalism?

Bold move, Cotton

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Keep moving those goalposts.

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No movement at all. Cut taxes, gut spending and deregulate. If there was even an ounce of leadership at the top, while still being hard, it would be doable.

Since there isn't, it's still a hard...but warranted...struggle.

Tariffs are lunacy. As is all liberalism.