BoydCrowder13 said:

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FireAg said:

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Stop buying products from China…

Tariffs become a non issue…

It's pretty simple…

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This is a naive take. In most items, components are sourced from various countries. Same with feedstocks of chemicals. Some are only produced in China. Now that might change in the next decade. But at this point in time, many items have components or chemicals that do not have another option than China.

---

Yeah, I don't think people realize even simple things are made from 100s of parts

It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

jamey said:

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FireAg said:

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Stop buying products from China…

Tariffs become a non issue…

It's pretty simple…

---

It will cost citizens more, hence Trumps lie. Any way you slice it, Trump is lying.

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Which citizens? Them or us?

I think there is a misunderstanding, of the differences between our two markets. They aren't remotely similar, which is the issue we're facing.

AgGrad99 said:

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FireAg said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

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FireAg said:

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Stop buying products from China…

Tariffs become a non issue…

It's pretty simple…

---

I understand your point, and ideally agree...but that's often not possible. They purposefully manipulated markets for decades and are the sole producer for many things now. Many things used in my industry...invented, designed and originally produced in the US...don't even have tooling here anymore.

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Yup…and that's our own damn fault…

We have to bite the bullet at some point, and that's exactly what we are doing…

China WILL cave…folks just have to be patient…

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I don't disagree.

My only concern is the long-term plan.

We can't expect companies to invest enormous capital, without some assurances of long term stability. Otherwise, everything goes back to the way it's been, and all these money is down the drain.

---

It's not down the drain.

Most smart CEOs are prepping right now to build somewhere not China and have the ability long term to build here. Automation or jobs, that's what's being discussed and executed right now across different industries.

Companies that refuse to have the ability to build here will start to have serious competitive disadvantages in a few years.

Strange, the information I'm seeing is Chinese warehouses, airports, trading ports, & transportation have ground to a halt; further, their citizenship is openly criticizing Xi, the 'housing boom' has completely busted, young people are demanding more "liberties" a la Tienemen Square in its infancy, & their unemployment is skyrocketing.

Your comment about China seems to try & paint a different picture than reality, perhaps because you intensely dislike Trump?

FWIW, his tariff approach may be a failure in the long-term, but arguing that China is now more robust than ever is wildly inaccurate; maybe we're getting access to different media sources, but I strongly urge you to do a little digging about the current state of China.

I'm speaking specifically to bringing it back to the US.

I have stuff made in multiple countries, including the US. There are definitely challenges unique to each situation.

But bringing some items back would require an enormous amount of capital, which most companies are going to be leery to commit, with little confidence going forward.

I know that's certainly a Lot of the discussions I have often right now.

Old McDonald said:

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CoachtobeNamed$$$ said:

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Which do you believe is most likely to happen?

A. The American company importing the product from China pays the tariff tax and passes it along to the American consumer who pays a higher price on this tariffed product with no change in buying habits…no change in supply and demand.

B. The American company importing the product from China reduces orders, pays the tariff, and passes the higher price to the consumer…who now demands less of the product thus hurting the Chinese production company. Also, in this scenario, there is a probability of the Chinese production company to lower their price to the importer (thus, absorbing some of the tariff cost).

C. The American importer cuts all orders for the Chinese product due to cost and finds suppliers from elsewhere with reduced or no tariff…..thus offering a comparable product at around their "normal" price.

Think about these options. Now, ask yourself, who really carries the brunt of the cost of tariffs?

---

in all 3 of these scenarios the American consumer pays more and gets nothing in return

---

In all three of these scenarios, America is better off in the long run. Also, I think there will be a change in buying habits in scenario A.

BusterAg said:

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It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

---

Trump said China, the country pays the tariff

That's a lie any way you want to slice it

He's not talking about secondary sourcing or anything else.


China pays the China tariff, full stop.

jamey said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

---

Trump said China, the country pays the tariff

That's a lie any way you want to slice it

He's not talking about secondary sourcing or anything else.


China pays the tariff, full stop.

---

He's factually correct

The reason they've cornered so much of the manufacturing globally, is because they manipulate the markets. Their government controls and subsidizes it. That is quite literally why we're in this situation.

Their financial system is very different than ours.

I'm not arguing for/against tariffs... it he's factually correct, and pointing out something a lot of people don't understand

Chinese suppliers/manufacturers have ground to a halt…

China is paying bigly…we just have to be patient…

jamey said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

---

Trump said China, the country pays the tariff

That's a lie any way you want to slice it

He's not talking about secondary sourcing or anything else.


China pays the China tariff, full stop.

---

It's cute that you think Chinese companies are independent of the Chinese state.

Chinese company = China

AgGrad99 said:

---

jamey said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

---

Trump said China, the country pays the tariff

That's a lie any way you want to slice it

He's not talking about secondary sourcing or anything else.


China pays the tariff, full stop.

---

He's factually correct

The reason they've cornered so much of the manufacturing globally, is because they manipulate the markets. Their government controls and subsidizes it. That is quite literally why we're in this situation.

Their financial system is very different than ours.

I'm not arguing for/against tariffs... it he's factually correct, and pointing out something a lot of people don't understand

---

You're playing games. China will pay a price. This isn't about who it hurts more or any of that. This is paying literal tariffs


That's not paying a tariff. Trump is trying to make it sound like US consumers won't see price upticks because China pays the literal tariff

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

---

Trump said China, the country pays the tariff

That's a lie any way you want to slice it

He's not talking about secondary sourcing or anything else.


China pays the China tariff, full stop.

---

It's cute that you think Chinese companies are independent of the Chinese state.

Chinese company = China

---

It's cute you don't think the importer pays the tariff

Yeah everyone knows China is a communist state run country

I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

jamey said:

---

Trump: What people don’t understand is.. the country eats the tariff, the company eats the tariff and it’s not passed along at all… China is eating the tariffs pic.twitter.com/oC30AQokR0

— Acyn (@Acyn) May 4, 2025

One day politicians won't be able to speak without AI running in the background, calling out their BS as it pours for their lying mouth


I asked grok

Is Trump correct that China pays the 145% tariff?
23 posts
No, Trump is incorrect in claiming that China pays the 145% tariff. Tariffs are taxes imposed by the U.S. government on goods imported from other countries, in this case, China. These tariffs are paid by the U.S. companies or importers who bring the goods into the United States, not by the Chinese government or Chinese companies. The cost is typically passed on to American consumers through higher prices or absorbed by the importers, which can reduce their profit margins. While the tariffs may pressure Chinese exporters by making their goods less competitive in the U.S. market, China itself does not directly pay the tariff.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/rkwTnzkb3HUXzFKSdDDrEKs2L.

---

THIS IS DUMB. Did you even listen to the entire clip?

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT SUBSIDIES???? China is EATING the Tariffs!

Yes, the Chinese government has implemented subsidies and support measures to help Chinese companies mitigate the impact of high U.S. tariffs. These measures are part of a broader strategy to maintain economic stability and support exporters facing increased trade barriers. Specifically:

• Subsidies and Financial Support: The Chinese government has a history of providing subsidies to industries to offset the costs of tariffs and maintain competitiveness. For instance, companies like Baidu and JD.com have announced initiatives, supported by government subsidies, to help exporters shift to domestic markets or explore new trade routes. Baidu has offered subsidies and free AI tools to 1 million businesses, while JD.com pledged 200 billion yuan ($27.22 billion) to buy goods originally intended for export to sell domestically.
• Export and Domestic Market Support: To counter the impact of U.S. tariffs, which have reached 145% on Chinese imports, China has expanded subsidies for consumer trade-in programs, particularly for home appliances, to boost domestic consumption. Additionally, the government has encouraged companies to diversify export markets, with increased trade focus on Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Europe.
• Strategic Exemptions and Retaliation: China has selectively exempted certain U.S. goods (e.g., pharmaceuticals, microchips, jet engines) from its retaliatory 125% tariffs to ease supply chain disruptions for Chinese firms, while also imposing non-tariff measures like export controls on critical minerals to pressure the U.S.
• Historical Context: China's subsidy system is extensive, with nearly all listed companies receiving direct government support in 2022. This includes subsidies for green-tech sectors like electric vehicles and wind turbines, which have helped Chinese firms dominate global markets despite foreign trade barriers. Posts on X also suggest that China subsidizes industries to offset tariffs, with some claiming this enables Chinese companies to maintain competitive pricing in the U.S. market.

jamey said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

It's situational. There are absolutely situations where the producing company will pay for the tariff.

Product A:
Made in China - Cost $5. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $7. Profit of 10% pre-tariff. ((5+2) *1.1)+7 = $14.70
Made in Taiwan - Cost $8. Costs $2 to ship to US. Tariff of $1. Profit of 10% pre-tariff ((8+2)*1.1)+1 = $12.00
Made in US - Cost $20, after profit.

Assume that consumer doesn't care if it comes from Taiwan or China. Who do you think pays for the tariff for goods made in China? Most likely - Consumer pays for $1, China pays for $6.

Its obviously way, way more complicated than that. The main issues are economies of scale, monopolistic pricing power, and trade patterns. But, in an international market with commodity level goods, and disparate tariffs for different countries, the consumer is not likely to pay 100% of the tariff from the country paying the highest tariffs.

I think that Krugman even goes into this a little bit in his Riksbank Prize work.

---

Trump said China, the country pays the tariff

That's a lie any way you want to slice it

He's not talking about secondary sourcing or anything else.


China pays the China tariff, full stop.

---

It's cute that you think Chinese companies are independent of the Chinese state.

Chinese company = China

---

It's cute you don't think the importer pays the tariff

---

It's cute that you don't understand that those are two different points.

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

---

Who pays the tariff?

jamey said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

---

Who pays the tariff?

---

Here or there? He's referring to there.

Do you import/export? Manufacture? I have an intimate understanding of this.

Trying to frame his comments about China, into a comment about US consumers isn't being intellectually honest.

Again...I'm not defending tariffs. I understand the cost gets passed on....here.

There, much more of the cost hits China, rather than the consumers...because they subsidize their industry. It's very different...which is what he's explaining

Houston Lee said:

---

jamey said:

---

Trump: What people don’t understand is.. the country eats the tariff, the company eats the tariff and it’s not passed along at all… China is eating the tariffs pic.twitter.com/oC30AQokR0

— Acyn (@Acyn) May 4, 2025

One day politicians won't be able to speak without AI running in the background, calling out their BS as it pours for their lying mouth


I asked grok

Is Trump correct that China pays the 145% tariff?
23 posts
No, Trump is incorrect in claiming that China pays the 145% tariff. Tariffs are taxes imposed by the U.S. government on goods imported from other countries, in this case, China. These tariffs are paid by the U.S. companies or importers who bring the goods into the United States, not by the Chinese government or Chinese companies. The cost is typically passed on to American consumers through higher prices or absorbed by the importers, which can reduce their profit margins. While the tariffs may pressure Chinese exporters by making their goods less competitive in the U.S. market, China itself does not directly pay the tariff.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/rkwTnzkb3HUXzFKSdDDrEKs2L.

---

THIS IS DUMB. Did you even listen to the entire clip?

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT SUBSIDIES???? China is EATING the Tariffs!

Yes, the Chinese government has implemented subsidies and support measures to help Chinese companies mitigate the impact of high U.S. tariffs. These measures are part of a broader strategy to maintain economic stability and support exporters facing increased trade barriers. Specifically:

• Subsidies and Financial Support: The Chinese government has a history of providing subsidies to industries to offset the costs of tariffs and maintain competitiveness. For instance, companies like Baidu and JD.com have announced initiatives, supported by government subsidies, to help exporters shift to domestic markets or explore new trade routes. Baidu has offered subsidies and free AI tools to 1 million businesses, while JD.com pledged 200 billion yuan ($27.22 billion) to buy goods originally intended for export to sell domestically.
• Export and Domestic Market Support: To counter the impact of U.S. tariffs, which have reached 145% on Chinese imports, China has expanded subsidies for consumer trade-in programs, particularly for home appliances, to boost domestic consumption. Additionally, the government has encouraged companies to diversify export markets, with increased trade focus on Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Europe.
• Strategic Exemptions and Retaliation: China has selectively exempted certain U.S. goods (e.g., pharmaceuticals, microchips, jet engines) from its retaliatory 125% tariffs to ease supply chain disruptions for Chinese firms, while also imposing non-tariff measures like export controls on critical minerals to pressure the U.S.
• Historical Context: China's subsidy system is extensive, with nearly all listed companies receiving direct government support in 2022. This includes subsidies for green-tech sectors like electric vehicles and wind turbines, which have helped Chinese firms dominate global markets despite foreign trade barriers. Posts on X also suggest that China subsidizes industries to offset tariffs, with some claiming this enables Chinese companies to maintain competitive pricing in the U.S. market.

---

Guess it didn't work because they're shutting down shipments instead of subsiding to the same price point for US comsumers

jamey said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

---

Who pays the tariff?

---

This is hilarious. If he answers "Chinese companies", you respond "that's not China. Trump said China".

When we point out that it's all the same, you respond with "who pays the tariff "?

jamey said:

---

Houston Lee said:

---

jamey said:

---

Trump: What people don’t understand is.. the country eats the tariff, the company eats the tariff and it’s not passed along at all… China is eating the tariffs pic.twitter.com/oC30AQokR0

— Acyn (@Acyn) May 4, 2025

One day politicians won't be able to speak without AI running in the background, calling out their BS as it pours for their lying mouth


I asked grok

Is Trump correct that China pays the 145% tariff?
23 posts
No, Trump is incorrect in claiming that China pays the 145% tariff. Tariffs are taxes imposed by the U.S. government on goods imported from other countries, in this case, China. These tariffs are paid by the U.S. companies or importers who bring the goods into the United States, not by the Chinese government or Chinese companies. The cost is typically passed on to American consumers through higher prices or absorbed by the importers, which can reduce their profit margins. While the tariffs may pressure Chinese exporters by making their goods less competitive in the U.S. market, China itself does not directly pay the tariff.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/rkwTnzkb3HUXzFKSdDDrEKs2L.

---

THIS IS DUMB. Did you even listen to the entire clip?

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT SUBSIDIES???? China is EATING the Tariffs!

Yes, the Chinese government has implemented subsidies and support measures to help Chinese companies mitigate the impact of high U.S. tariffs. These measures are part of a broader strategy to maintain economic stability and support exporters facing increased trade barriers. Specifically:

• Subsidies and Financial Support: The Chinese government has a history of providing subsidies to industries to offset the costs of tariffs and maintain competitiveness. For instance, companies like Baidu and JD.com have announced initiatives, supported by government subsidies, to help exporters shift to domestic markets or explore new trade routes. Baidu has offered subsidies and free AI tools to 1 million businesses, while JD.com pledged 200 billion yuan ($27.22 billion) to buy goods originally intended for export to sell domestically.
• Export and Domestic Market Support: To counter the impact of U.S. tariffs, which have reached 145% on Chinese imports, China has expanded subsidies for consumer trade-in programs, particularly for home appliances, to boost domestic consumption. Additionally, the government has encouraged companies to diversify export markets, with increased trade focus on Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Europe.
• Strategic Exemptions and Retaliation: China has selectively exempted certain U.S. goods (e.g., pharmaceuticals, microchips, jet engines) from its retaliatory 125% tariffs to ease supply chain disruptions for Chinese firms, while also imposing non-tariff measures like export controls on critical minerals to pressure the U.S.
• Historical Context: China's subsidy system is extensive, with nearly all listed companies receiving direct government support in 2022. This includes subsidies for green-tech sectors like electric vehicles and wind turbines, which have helped Chinese firms dominate global markets despite foreign trade barriers. Posts on X also suggest that China subsidizes industries to offset tariffs, with some claiming this enables Chinese companies to maintain competitive pricing in the U.S. market.

---

Guess it didn't work because they're shutting down shipments instead of subsiding to the same price point for US comsumers

---

So US consumers are not paying the tariffs because there is no product.

What have you tried to purchase that you could not?

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

---

Who pays the tariff?

---

This is hilarious. If he answers "Chinese companies", you respond "that's not China. Trump said China".

When we point out that it's all the same, you respond with "who pays the tariff "?

---

Chinese company or Chinese government is often the same, yes


This was never a point of contention.

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

Houston Lee said:

---

jamey said:

---

Trump: What people don’t understand is.. the country eats the tariff, the company eats the tariff and it’s not passed along at all… China is eating the tariffs pic.twitter.com/oC30AQokR0

— Acyn (@Acyn) May 4, 2025

One day politicians won't be able to speak without AI running in the background, calling out their BS as it pours for their lying mouth


I asked grok

Is Trump correct that China pays the 145% tariff?
23 posts
No, Trump is incorrect in claiming that China pays the 145% tariff. Tariffs are taxes imposed by the U.S. government on goods imported from other countries, in this case, China. These tariffs are paid by the U.S. companies or importers who bring the goods into the United States, not by the Chinese government or Chinese companies. The cost is typically passed on to American consumers through higher prices or absorbed by the importers, which can reduce their profit margins. While the tariffs may pressure Chinese exporters by making their goods less competitive in the U.S. market, China itself does not directly pay the tariff.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/rkwTnzkb3HUXzFKSdDDrEKs2L.

---

THIS IS DUMB. Did you even listen to the entire clip?

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT SUBSIDIES???? China is EATING the Tariffs!

Yes, the Chinese government has implemented subsidies and support measures to help Chinese companies mitigate the impact of high U.S. tariffs. These measures are part of a broader strategy to maintain economic stability and support exporters facing increased trade barriers. Specifically:

• Subsidies and Financial Support: The Chinese government has a history of providing subsidies to industries to offset the costs of tariffs and maintain competitiveness. For instance, companies like Baidu and JD.com have announced initiatives, supported by government subsidies, to help exporters shift to domestic markets or explore new trade routes. Baidu has offered subsidies and free AI tools to 1 million businesses, while JD.com pledged 200 billion yuan ($27.22 billion) to buy goods originally intended for export to sell domestically.
• Export and Domestic Market Support: To counter the impact of U.S. tariffs, which have reached 145% on Chinese imports, China has expanded subsidies for consumer trade-in programs, particularly for home appliances, to boost domestic consumption. Additionally, the government has encouraged companies to diversify export markets, with increased trade focus on Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Europe.
• Strategic Exemptions and Retaliation: China has selectively exempted certain U.S. goods (e.g., pharmaceuticals, microchips, jet engines) from its retaliatory 125% tariffs to ease supply chain disruptions for Chinese firms, while also imposing non-tariff measures like export controls on critical minerals to pressure the U.S.
• Historical Context: China's subsidy system is extensive, with nearly all listed companies receiving direct government support in 2022. This includes subsidies for green-tech sectors like electric vehicles and wind turbines, which have helped Chinese firms dominate global markets despite foreign trade barriers. Posts on X also suggest that China subsidizes industries to offset tariffs, with some claiming this enables Chinese companies to maintain competitive pricing in the U.S. market.

---

Guess it didn't work because they're shutting down shipments instead of subsiding to the same price point for US comsumers

---

So US consumers are not paying the tariffs because there is no product.

What have you tried to purchase that you could not?

---

Why do you expect to see prices go up already?


So if prices go up as a result of tariffs you agree Trump lied.

I'm good with that

jamey said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

---

Who pays the tariff?

---

This is hilarious. If he answers "Chinese companies", you respond "that's not China. Trump said China".

When we point out that it's all the same, you respond with "who pays the tariff "?

---

Chinese company or Chinese government is often the same, yes


This was never a point of contention.

---

That's not true. When others said the Chinese companies were bearing the burden, you said "Trump said China, not the companies. Full stop".

I don't believe Chinese companies are bearing the full load, no.

But I DGAS. China unleashed a virus that killed millions. I don't care if it was intentional or not. They knew it was out there and didn't tell the world. They continued to allow international travel because they wanted it to spread.

**** them. I'll gladly pay a higher price to destroy them.

I've been lied to for years. We (the right) are supposed to be better than these liberal propaganda tactics. When I see out right lies of this magnitude it makes me question a lot more talking points.

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

jamey said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

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I'm not playing games. Not sure how my comments are interpreted as that.

He's not making it sound like anything other than what he said. He's explaining what a lot of people don't understand. It does not affect us the same, because they don't operate the way we do.

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Who pays the tariff?

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This is hilarious. If he answers "Chinese companies", you respond "that's not China. Trump said China".

When we point out that it's all the same, you respond with "who pays the tariff "?

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Chinese company or Chinese government is often the same, yes


This was never a point of contention.

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That's not true. When others said the Chinese companies were bearing the burden, you said "Trump said China, not the companies. Full stop".

I don't believe Chinese companies are bearing the full load, no.

But I DGAS. China unleashed a virus that killed millions. I don't care if it was intentional or not. They knew it was out there and didn't tell the world. They continued to allow international travel because they wanted it to spread.

**** them. I'll gladly pay a higher price to destroy them.

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I said

jamey said:

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China pays the China tariff, full stop.

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I agree China lied about covid, I even agree with the big picture Trump is trying to accomplish with China and even onshorimg some, certainly not all manufacturing. Particularly manufacturing that's of national security importance

I do not agree with Trump bold face lying to Americans, especially for something some Americans need to know. The poor may want to stock up on things like summer/winter clothing...etc to offset the tariffs that according to Trump won't impact them. That's a lie, it will impact them

My whole point is AI will eventually prevent politicians, news,...etc from such bold faced lies and thats a good thing

I haven't defended Trump. I just pointed out that nothing is independent of the state, including companies.

Trump should be honest.

CoachtobeNamed$$$ said:

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Which do you believe is most likely to happen?

A. The American company importing the product from China pays the tariff tax and passes it along to the American consumer who pays a higher price on this tariffed product with no change in buying habits…no change in supply and demand.

B. The American company importing the product from China reduces orders, pays the tariff, and passes the higher price to the consumer…who now demands less of the product thus hurting the Chinese production company. Also, in this scenario, there is a probability of the Chinese production company to lower their price to the importer (thus, absorbing some of the tariff cost).

C. The American importer cuts all orders for the Chinese product due to cost and finds suppliers from elsewhere with reduced or no tariff…..thus offering a comparable product at around their "normal" price.

Think about these options. Now, ask yourself, who really carries the brunt of the cost of tariffs?

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C, I believe this was already happening with textiles.
Textiles and apparel: U.S. general imports by selected trading partners, 201822
From China as a % of imports.

• 2018 36.9%
• 2022 27.1%

Couldn't find more recent data, however, the sheer number of sources for the remaining 63.1% to 72.9% means there are plenty of alternatives.

CoachtobeNamed$$$ said:

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Old McDonald said:

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CoachtobeNamed$$$ said:

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Which do you believe is most likely to happen?

A. The American company importing the product from China pays the tariff tax and passes it along to the American consumer who pays a higher price on this tariffed product with no change in buying habits…no change in supply and demand.

B. The American company importing the product from China reduces orders, pays the tariff, and passes the higher price to the consumer…who now demands less of the product thus hurting the Chinese production company. Also, in this scenario, there is a probability of the Chinese production company to lower their price to the importer (thus, absorbing some of the tariff cost).

C. The American importer cuts all orders for the Chinese product due to cost and finds suppliers from elsewhere with reduced or no tariff…..thus offering a comparable product at around their "normal" price.

Think about these options. Now, ask yourself, who really carries the brunt of the cost of tariffs?

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in all 3 of these scenarios the American consumer pays more and gets nothing in return

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What? Lolz

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We just placed an order for ~$2MM of furniture which would have gone 100% to China if no tariffs. Chinese manufacturer is desperate and offered to eat most of tariffs and keep pricing within $30k from 6 mths ago but we chose to go with domestic at a very slight premium, timing also a factor. I've got a few more jobs to buy this year that are all trending the same way and most will now go domestic or Taiwan / Vietnam for very small increases, < 3%.

I love how people who have no idea write in here like they have ALL the ideas.

I know for a fact that a Chinese company we buy from was eating tariffs. But, when it got 145% they gave up and agreed to not ship to us for now.

We don't always pay the entire tariff and it all depends on what is being imported.

STOP with blanket statements on how the tariffs work or don't work. It is a mixed bag so let's see how it goes by end of the summer. I gotta feeling China will back down.

jamey said:

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FireAg said:

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Stop buying products from China…

Tariffs become a non issue…

It's pretty simple…

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It will cost citizens more, hence Trumps lie. Any way you slice it, Trump is lying.

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He's not lying this time. He's actually just profoundly stupid. I'm sure it's been explained to him. He just really doesn't understand or care so just reverts back to factory settings.

Red Red Wine said:

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I love how people who have no idea write in here like they have ALL the ideas.

I know for a fact that a Chinese company we buy from was eating tariffs. But, when it got 145% they gave up and agreed to not ship to us for now.

We don't always pay the entire tariff and it all depends on what is being imported.

STOP with blanket statements on how the tariffs work or don't work. It is a mixed bag so let's see how it goes by end of the summer. I gotta feeling China will back down.

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This is correct.

Wait.wait.wait. Bad Trump cuz tariffs don't work? Then why are ALL of these countries charging us tariffs? He's working a deal to get it back in balance. Stop with saying it's better off now with the US getting ripped off.

Red Red Wine said:

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I love how people who have no idea write in here like they have ALL the ideas.

I know for a fact that a Chinese company we buy from was eating tariffs. But, when it got 145% they gave up and agreed to not ship to us for now.

We don't always pay the entire tariff and it all depends on what is being imported.

STOP with blanket statements on how the tariffs work or don't work. It is a mixed bag so let's see how it goes by end of the summer. I gotta feeling China will back down.

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Tell Trump. He says China pays it and it's not passed on at all

That's a lie