Jeeper79 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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I'm a 20+ year public educator who is pro-school vouchers as long as we start allowing public schools to operate similarly to charter and private schools.

If we don't want to, we don't offer special education services. If we want to, we can kick out any kid. If we don't want to, we don't use standardized tests. If we're going to allow some parents to decide if they are happy with their educational choices without state interference, all parents should have that choice. Public schools choose what they teach, not the state.

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If we did that to public schools, we wouldn't need vouchers. It's never going to happen.

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Then vouchers won't fix educational outcomes.

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Yes they will for those who use them because private schools can do all those things.

Public schools cannot be fixed. Too many leftists are involved.

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The biggest problem with public schools isn't leftists. By a wide margin, it's parents that don't care to be involved. Republican education reform absolutely would not fix schools, either. Blaming leftists here is a red herring. Parents and students have to choose for themselves to be better and no political party can do that for them.

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The problem is 100% leftists. We've always had parents who were not involved. You think that is some new phenomenon?

Back before leftists took over: kids could be disciplined, expelled, segregated, kids could be separated in the classroom based on ability, etc... Leftists changed all that. Liberals and leftism ruined public schools!

Leftists use the "parents are not involved" as an excuse for the failure to continue their idiotic policies and ideology.

It's nothing but a babysitting service for 50% of the kids so leftists can grift. Leftists love workfare and the public school system is a main pillar of workfare.

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You're right that it's a babysitting service for half the kids, but that's not fixed by conservative policies. If you think that's not right, what's the conservative solution? And don't say expulsion because that only masks the problem. Those kids still end up stupid. They're just now unaccounted for.

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Just like some people are born ugly, some are born dumb. I believe in the normal curve of IQ. For those who fall below the peak of the curve, I would focus on methods and structure that maximize their potential. I would make traditional school optional for at least 50% of students after 8th or 9th grade. My goal for that 50% would be that they be able to read, write and do basic math at a level where they can function as adults. They would not be socially promoted. I would then identify those who could do some sort of vo-tech and move them there. The rest would be put in some sort of daily detention center until they are 18.

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But, for everyone who is against govt being involved in home schooling, tell me how we prevent a large number of the worst parents "home schooling" their kids with no intent to educate, just to collect the voucher, and amazingly leaving those kids actually worse off than if they went to the generally crappy public schools?

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Then when the parents realize their kids are little ****heads like the teachers have been telling them, they'll get tired of them bring home. They will send them back to public schools at 14 with a 3rd grade education. Now it's in the schools issue to fix that or be labeled as a failure.

I'm pro-voucher but a lot of details need to be worked out before it's implemented. The current bill is nothing more than a political payoff to private schools. Real school choice is not $10k each to 1% of Texas kids. All that does is double the amount paid for those kids.

Private schools are good because parents are involved. Period. I understand that isn't new, but the level it happens at now is much higher.

You can fix public schools if you fix the parents and hold them accountable for their kids. You can fix public schools if the government would quit passing unfunded mandates and quit trying to micromanage teachers and what lessons/books they are allowed to have in their classrooms.

The private school that we currently think of isn't going to accept vouchers outside of one or two fringe cases where they prove they are being inclusive.

What's more likely going to happen is that poorly run charter schools today are going to become poorly run private schools with a 40% pay raise and even less oversight. You're going to see AI as the teacher with a $15/hr babysitter in a one room former big box store.

Abbott got millions in campaign contributions to make sure that vouchers pass. He has used those funds to support voucher friendly candidates and basically primary out the opposition.

Texas is the only red state that does not have some kind of voucher program. Abbott has his eye on the White House and knows that he must get this passed to appeal to conservatives nationwide.

Vouchers will pass. Abbott, backed by billionaires that stand to profit off of the processing of voucher payments (3-5 percent of each voucher) will insure it. Meanwhile, he will continue to starve public schools of funding until he gets his pet project passed. It's unconscionable with all the issues facing our state that his priority 1 is getting vouchers passed.

Dark_Knight said:

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So basically, the idea is nice but these current bills suck. Then why is Abbott pushing so hard?

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A TikTok billionaire named Jeffery Yass from Pennsylvania donated in the neighborhood of $12 million to Abbott's campaign PAC. Yass is affiliated with multiple billionaires, including former Trump Dept of Ed Betsy Vos, who run construction companies that build private schools, manage state-wide ESA (voucher programs), and etc. Voucher schemes are money makers for politically-connected vendors. I don't think money is the primary motivator, however. Money makes the 'moral majority' Christian worldview sustainable to push through privatization of public education.

The irony is the spokesman for these billionaires is a former homosexual porn star named Corey DeAngelis who lives in San Antonio. Redemption is real with the voucher proponents.

Only in Texas would Republicans drop a diss track against a former gay porn star turned school voucher lobbyist. Nice work @ZachMaxwell & @JREakin #txlege https://t.co/KWb8BZeY6U

— Scott Braddock (@scottbraddock) March 22, 2025

FarmerJohn said:

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I live in HISD. Our school district was locked in a vendetta between the black caucus and the Hispanic caucus, with a token Asian and white liberal woman thrown in the mix. They couldn't put aside their blood feud long enough to stop the state from taking over the district. So now a state appointed superintendent is focused on raising the lowest standards at the expense of the best students. And frankly he is right to do so based on our current system.

I also have a boy about to enter kindergarten. If he were to enter HISD, it would be a disaster. So, with a good amount of belt tightening, we will enter private school. It will be a sacrifice but the right decision. As I read this bill, I would be unlikely to get money from vouchers. I guess I'm "rich". But I certainly would see the inflation in private schools from vouchers. If it goes like the other government subsidized education (colleges and universities), I won't be able to keep up and will be financially forced back to public school. At which point I will move.

Therefore, I'm against vouchers. Yes, I care about the education of all children. I just happen to care much more about the education of one child in particular far more than the others.

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While this is a perfect example of why true 100% democracy fails (people are always going to put personal interest over civic duty), i wouldn't feel too guilty. I've talked to many people who are pro-achool vouchers, but against this bill because of the way it will be implemented.

with all things beurocracy, the how is as important as the what.

The Texas House of Representatives Public Education Committee is scheduled to meet at 8 a.m. Tuesday, April 1 -- and this is absolutely no joke.

The committee will meet to consider SB 2, the Senate's education savings account bill and companion to HB 3, which was considered and left pending in a prior public hearing.

This is basically a fast track for pushing "school choice" through.

If the committee votes out some version of the Senate's ESA bill, they can move it to the House floor. The Senate won't have to take it back through the committee process, since it's an SB that already passed the Senate. The Senate can simply vote to concur.

Make your opposition known to every House member in the strongest and quickest way you possibly can! Ask them to vote "NO" on SB 2.

(This message is from a homeschool advocate group, Texans for Homeschool Freedom, so not my words, but it has my concurrence)

10andBOUNCE said:

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I think some are missing the fact that we have two bills that are in play at this point and need to be outright rejected for the failure that they are, as stated by some above.

It's fine to have an overall philosophy on if you support vouchers at the macro level, but just because vouchers in general are something you like doesn't mean you should approve whatever bill is trying to "advance" the mission. Focus on these bills at this time and place.

As stated before, this is NEW funding that will be in play. There is no funding that follows the student. There is no attempt to make school transfers any more widely accepted. It's essentially just another pile of money to help subsidize private school costs for a very select few amount of families. Is this what you want?

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If we were on FB I'd give this a "heart".

Dark_Knight said:

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So basically, the idea is nice but these current bills suck. Then why is Abbott pushing so hard?

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I personally don't like the idea period BUT yes, these bills are HORRIBLE. Abbott accepted a $12M donation to push school choice through. It's the hill he's chosen to die on.

Sq 17 said:

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Over_ed said:

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But, for everyone who is against govt being involved in home schooling, tell me how we prevent a large number of the worst parents "home schooling" their kids with no intent to educate, just to collect the voucher, and amazingly leaving those kids actually worse off than if they went to the generally crappy public schools?

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This will be one of the consequences of vouchers. Students will stop attending high school around the age of 16 the parents will get a windfall ( a couple years of voucher money ) and the economy will get a new underclass of workers to replace the illegals that are being deported

Look to Florida they are reworking child labor laws of course that political development is not getting much attention here on f16

Voucher recipients will be discriminated against not based on their race but The students that are already enrolled at the private schools will be favored over the new applicants
Most if not all good private schools are full and have waiting lists there are not a large number of desks that could be filled if the cost of private schools were offset by a school voucher from the govt

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Your first paragraph makes zero sense. I hate these bills but your assumptions about what would happen with homeschoolers is all kinds of wrong.

The sad thing is that it sounds like it's going to fail AND hurt the overall mission of school choice.

TXAG 05 said:

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What about people who don't have kids? Are we stuck paying for your brat to not learn anything vouchers or not?

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Yes. But, now you'll pay twice.

PGAG said:

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The voucher push is not and has never been about improving student outcomes. It is essentially a huge windfall for private schools and parents of students in private schools.

If you want to improve public schools, you must attract better people to work in them. You do that by improving working conditions and pay drastically. Private schools get to pick who walks through their doors.

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Did you know that on average, public school teachers make more than private school teachers? Pay isn't the problem.

FCBlitz said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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I'm a 20+ year public educator who is pro-school vouchers as long as we start allowing public schools to operate similarly to charter and private schools.

If we don't want to, we don't offer special education services. If we want to, we can kick out any kid. If we don't want to, we don't use standardized tests. If we're going to allow some parents to decide if they are happy with their educational choices without state interference, all parents should have that choice. Public schools choose what they teach, not the state.

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If we did that to public schools, we wouldn't need vouchers. It's never going to happen.

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Then vouchers won't fix educational outcomes.

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Of course they would. That fact is inarguable.

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So then the system I proposed will work as well. If private schools can choose what they do within their buildings, it would seem that public schools could benefit from that as well.

Let the parents of those public school students decide if it's working as well.

Howdy, it is me! said:

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The Texas House of Representatives Public Education Committee is scheduled to meet at 8 a.m. Tuesday, April 1 -- and this is absolutely no joke.

The committee will meet to consider SB 2, the Senate's education savings account bill and companion to HB 3, which was considered and left pending in a prior public hearing.

This is basically a fast track for pushing "school choice" through.

If the committee votes out some version of the Senate's ESA bill, they can move it to the House floor. The Senate won't have to take it back through the committee process, since it's an SB that already passed the Senate. The Senate can simply vote to concur.

Make your opposition known to every House member in the strongest and quickest way you possibly can! Ask them to vote "NO" on SB 2.

(This message is from a homeschool advocate group, Texans for Homeschool Freedom, so not my words, but it has my concurrence)

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Why do homeschoolers care one way or the other?

Working conditions is a huge part of it.

Logos Stick said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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I'm a 20+ year public educator who is pro-school vouchers as long as we start allowing public schools to operate similarly to charter and private schools.

If we don't want to, we don't offer special education services. If we want to, we can kick out any kid. If we don't want to, we don't use standardized tests. If we're going to allow some parents to decide if they are happy with their educational choices without state interference, all parents should have that choice. Public schools choose what they teach, not the state.

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If we did that to public schools, we wouldn't need vouchers. It's never going to happen.

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Then vouchers won't fix educational outcomes.

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Yes they will for those who use them because private schools can do all those things.

Public schools cannot be fixed. Too many leftists are involved.

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The biggest problem with public schools isn't leftists. By a wide margin, it's parents that don't care to be involved. Republican education reform absolutely would not fix schools, either. Blaming leftists here is a red herring. Parents and students have to choose for themselves to be better and no political party can do that for them.

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The problem is 100% leftists. We've always had parents who were not involved. You think that is some new phenomenon?

Back before leftists took over: kids could be disciplined, expelled, segregated, kids could be separated in the classroom based on ability, etc... Leftists changed all that. Liberals and leftism ruined public schools!

Leftists use the "parents are not involved" as an excuse for the failure to continue their idiotic policies and ideology.

Its nothing but a babysitting service for 50% of the kids so leftists can grift. Leftists love workfare and the public school system is a main pillar of workfare.

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The last time leftists controlled Texas was 1976. You can't blame leftist policies for how Texas education has ended up. That being said, a Republican president signed the No Child Left Behind Bill into law.

What Texas education needs are drastically smaller class sizes, more individualized supports towards interventions for students, and more individualized supports to help better meet SPED students where they are at. Doing away with STAAR, mandating more outside time in younger grades, and less screen time.

This all coming from an educator whose worked in Texas education since 2017.

Jeeper79 said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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The Texas House of Representatives Public Education Committee is scheduled to meet at 8 a.m. Tuesday, April 1 -- and this is absolutely no joke.

The committee will meet to consider SB 2, the Senate's education savings account bill and companion to HB 3, which was considered and left pending in a prior public hearing.

This is basically a fast track for pushing "school choice" through.

If the committee votes out some version of the Senate's ESA bill, they can move it to the House floor. The Senate won't have to take it back through the committee process, since it's an SB that already passed the Senate. The Senate can simply vote to concur.

Make your opposition known to every House member in the strongest and quickest way you possibly can! Ask them to vote "NO" on SB 2.

(This message is from a homeschool advocate group, Texans for Homeschool Freedom, so not my words, but it has my concurrence)

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Why do homeschoolers care one way or the other?

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Because Texas is one of the most free states when it comes to homeschooling and as soon as the government gets its foot in the door, things will change. You can't take government money without government regulation. If homeschoolers submit to an assessment, they are essentially turning over control, saying they are no longer adequately able to assess the success or failure of their child. These bills also regulate curriculum.

ETA: homeschoolers don't parent with the government; it's one of the main reasons families homeschool in the first place. I'm sure the same could be said about those who attend private school. Of course, that will change with the implementation of vouchers.

I think you're going to see a lot of fraud. People claiming to be home schooling, when they aren't really homeschooling. But if you're a family making $50k a year, and the government is basically offering $10k a year per kid to homeschool, why wouldn't you?
I think you'll see new 'fake' private schools pop up too.

As a private school dad, I don't want the government in my kids education. I think this is a step to get in. They're going to start by giving the private schools public dollars, then when they start to see fraud or waste they're going to start demanding oversight into private education.

I'd save a ton of money if this thing passes, and I'd rather it not. I don't think private institutions should get public dollars without oversight, and I don't want government oversight in my kids education.

If they have this much money to throw around, and they're actually serious about lowering property taxes, start giving cities and counties a bigger chunk of the sales tax so they can build roads that are worth something. Or spend some money to figure out how to get the TWDB and TCEQ to operate efficiently enough that major water projects don't cost cities millions extra in inflation dollars because plans are stuck in review for months and years longer than they should be.

PGAG said:

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The voucher push is not and has never been about improving student outcomes. It is essentially a huge windfall for private schools and parents of students in private schools.

If you want to improve public schools, you must attract better people to work in them. You do that by improving working conditions and pay drastically. Private schools get to pick who walks through their doors.

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aggiegolfer2012 said:

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I think you're going to see a lot of fraud. People claiming to be home schooling, when they aren't really homeschooling. But if you're a family making $50k a year, and the government is basically offering $10k a year per kid to homeschool, why wouldn't you?
I think you'll see new 'fake' private schools pop up too.

As a private school dad, I don't want the government in my kids education. I think this is a step to get in. They're going to start by giving the private schools public dollars, then when they start to see fraud or waste they're going to start demanding oversight into private education.

I'd save a ton of money if this thing passes, and I'd rather it not. I don't think private institutions should get public dollars without oversight, and I don't want government oversight in my kids education.

If they have this much money to throw around, and they're actually serious about lowering property taxes, start giving cities and counties a bigger chunk of the sales tax so they can build roads that are worth something. Or spend some money to figure out how to get the TWDB and TCEQ to operate efficiently enough that major water projects don't cost cities millions extra in inflation dollars because plans are stuck in review for months and years longer than they should be.

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You seem to be misinformed. These homeschool situations you are proposing cannot happen.

First of all, it's only $1 or $2k that homeschool families will receive per child. Second, the parents will never actually have the money in their possession. The money goes straight from the comptroller to the vendor. Same as the private school families.

I agree with everything else you said.

aggiegolfer2012 said:

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I think you're going to see a lot of fraud. People claiming to be home schooling, when they aren't really homeschooling. But if you're a family making $50k a year, and the government is basically offering $10k a year per kid to homeschool, why wouldn't you?
I think you'll see new 'fake' private schools pop up too.

As a private school dad, I don't want the government in my kids education. I think this is a step to get in. They're going to start by giving the private schools public dollars, then when they start to see fraud or waste they're going to start demanding oversight into private education.

I'd save a ton of money if this thing passes, and I'd rather it not. I don't think private institutions should get public dollars without oversight, and I don't want government oversight in my kids education.

If they have this much money to throw around, and they're actually serious about lowering property taxes, start giving cities and counties a bigger chunk of the sales tax so they can build roads that are worth something. Or spend some money to figure out how to get the TWDB and TCEQ to operate efficiently enough that major water projects don't cost cities millions extra in inflation dollars because plans are stuck in review for months and years longer than they should be.

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Last I checked, homeschoolers are only getting $1k or $2k. Not $10k like private schoolers.

They must've changed something in the more recent bill. I haven't paid much attention since the election because I just assumed they were going to pass whatever they wanted.

If nothing else, I hope some of this shows people to pay attention during elections. A lot of folks that voted for the 'school choice' candidates Abbott was backing during the election aren't happy with what school choice means anymore.

The craziest thing about all of this to me is Abbott continues to point the finger of blame for poor performing public schools that he has been in charge of for years! His first act was to appoint a commissioner of education with the vast experience as a school board member in Dallas ISD. Arguably the worst performing school district in the state.

The tea is the ******* child of the department of education, it's a bureaucratic quagmire staffed by idiots whose job it is to make things complicated.

It should be disbanded and regional offices should perform the functions that are needed from a state level., which isn't a great deal. Local isd's shoukd determine a lot of things.

Notice how none of the opponents of school choice spend time talking about the best ways for children to learn.

And the proponents of school choice have offered what solution? 84% of funds will go to students already in private education.

And teachers have some sort of Stockholm syndrome, battered spouse trauma.

The system abuses them and disrespects them, but they defend it and are scared to leave it.

sam callahan said:

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Notice how none of the opponents of school choice spend time talking about the best ways for children to learn.

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What are your opinions?

Proponents are pushing for a system that will proliferate choices, drive competition, and reward results. Things that will definitely improve education.

Your 84% figure is some biased projection, not a dynamic predictor of reality.

My opinion is that a one size fits all system becomes a race to the lowest common denominator. That freedom and choice drive innovation. That we have more tools and resources available than ever before and we are stuck in an old model. That instead of designing a system on poor expectations, we should throw off the chains and shoot for spectacular. That we shouldn't fear excellence. Let the high achievers pull everyone up instead of letting the worst case examples pull everyone down.

A great segway into a valid point. Funding may or may not be the issue with increasing student outcomes. But a continued lack of funding will definitely hamper those efforts. Choking out funding of local districts and teachers won't result in better outcomes. Both things need to be tackled at the same time.

sam callahan said:

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Proponents are pushing for a system that will proliferate choices, drive competition, and reward results. Things that will definitely improve education.

Your 84% figure is some biased projection, not a dynamic predictor of reality.

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Sounds like increased teacher pay.

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The last time leftists controlled Texas was 1976. You can't blame leftist policies for how Texas education has ended up.

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Wrong! Texas is not autonomous! Federal law controls major policy/practice at public schools. Schools also get about 15% of total funding from the Feds which means they must comply or lose funding.

Here are some of those laws, which have been broadly interpreted to ruin public schools:

ESSA (2015): Sets requirements for standardized testing in reading and math (grades 3-8 and once in high school), mandates accountability plans, and tracks subgroup performance (e.g., racial minorities, English learners). States design the specifics, but federal approval is needed.

IDEA (1975, reauthorized 2004): Guarantees free appropriate public education for students with disabilities, dictating policies like individualized education programs (IEPs). States must comply or lose federal special-ed funds.

Civil Rights Laws: Title VI (1964 Civil Rights Act) bans racial discrimination, Title IX (1972) ensures gender equity, and Section 504 (1973 Rehabilitation Act) protects students with disabilities. These override local policies when violations occur, enforced via federal lawsuits or funding cuts.

NCLB (2002-2015): Before ESSA, it imposed stricter testing and "adequate yearly progress" goals. Its legacy lingers in accountability frameworks.


Title IX also controls:

Mandates Equal Opportunity:
Schools must ensure that students of all genders (originally focused on male/female, now interpreted more broadly) have equal access to educational programs, including academics, extracurriculars, and athletics. For example, if a school offers boys' football, it must provide comparable opportunities for girlslike volleyball or soccermeasured by funding, facilities, and participation rates. This doesn't mean identical programs, but equitable ones.

Sexual Harassment and Assault:
Title IX requires schools to address sex-based discrimination, which courts have interpreted to include sexual harassment, assault, and gender-based violence. Schools must have policies to investigate and resolve complaints (e.g., a Title IX coordinator), or they risk federal penalties. A landmark 1999 Supreme Court case, Davis v. Monroe County Board of Education, held schools liable if they're "deliberately indifferent" to known harassment.

Gender Identity and Transgender Rights:
As of March 31, 2025, Title IX's scope includes protections for transgender students, following the 2020 Supreme Court ruling in Bostock v. Clayton County (extending sex discrimination to gender identity under Title VII, influencing Title IX interpretations). The Biden administration's 2021 rules explicitly protect transgender students' access to bathrooms, sports, and pronouns consistent with their gender identity. Schools defying thislike some in red statesface legal battles or funding threats, though enforcement varies with political winds.

Enforcement Mechanism:
The U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights (OCR) oversees Title IX compliance. If a school violates it (e.g., mishandling a harassment case), OCR can investigate, negotiate fixes, orrarelycut federal funds. In practice, lawsuits from students or advocacy groups often drive enforcement, as with the 2023 settlements forcing schools to improve sexual assault policies.

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That being said, a Republican president signed the No Child Left Behind Bill into law.

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W was not a conservative by any measure. He doubled the national debt, passed NCLB (co authored by Ted Kennedy) and passed Medicare D. He would have signed amnesty for illegals had they passed it. W was solid left of center!

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What Texas education needs are drastically smaller class sizes, more individualized supports towards interventions for students, and more individualized supports to help better meet SPED students where they are at. Doing away with STAAR, mandating more outside time in younger grades, and less screen time.

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None of what you suggested - a bunch of leftist pap - would help.

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This all coming from an educator whose worked in Texas education since 2017.

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Not surprised.

I welcome you to provide differing statistics. I'd be happy to review.