The System said:

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3 billionaires, a paid off Governor, a paid off looney Lt Gov, and spineless republicans completed their attack on the public school system. They were too afraid to actually put it on the ballot and let the people decide. Quite pathetic.

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I thought the people voted for their reps who ran on choice?!

The System said:

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3 billionaires, a paid off Governor, a paid off looney Lt Gov, and spineless republicans completed their attack on the public school system. They were too afraid to actually put it on the ballot and let the people decide. Quite pathetic.

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LOL. The school system sucks ***.

yeah. my property taxes will go up more

Ihatefallscounty said:

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This thing infuriates me, Abbott and Patrick since the beginning of their tenure, reduced the amount of tax dollars given to schools and legislated that into place, like 5-7 years ago. So then he created animosity at the local level when school districts raised taxes to fund the districts. Finally he prevented them from doing so to squeeze public education to allow vouchers to happen, essentially controlling the funding completely to push his voucher agenda. This has been an egregious government interference and party politics allowed it to happen.

This is a millionaire tax break, and a way for his buddy Jeff Yass to make money off kids.

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How is this a millionaires tax break? The bills that I saw were means tested.

Abbott and Patrick are the ones who care about Texas students and taxpayers.

Hth

Tom Fox said:

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Ihatefallscounty said:

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This thing infuriates me, Abbott and Patrick since the beginning of their tenure, reduced the amount of tax dollars given to schools and legislated that into place, like 5-7 years ago. So then he created animosity at the local level when school districts raised taxes to fund the districts. Finally he prevented them from doing so to squeeze public education to allow vouchers to happen, essentially controlling the funding completely to push his voucher agenda. This has been an egregious government interference and party politics allowed it to happen.

This is a millionaire tax break, and a way for his buddy Jeff Yass to make money off kids.

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How is this a millionaires tax break? The bills that I saw were means tested.

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You have half arguing it benefits the poors unfairly and the other claiming its a tax break for the rich.

It is a middle class entitlement. That is who will benefit from this.

Tom Fox said:

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It is a middle class entitlement. That is who will benefit from this.

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I think it's the kids who will benefit, but whatever.

Kids benefit from SNAP and Medicaid, that does nothing to make it not an entitlement.

Just like vouchers. You have just decided that this particular entitlement is good. Spending others tax money is good when it is something that I want it spent on.

Tom Fox said:

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Kids benefit from SNAP and Medicaid, that does nothing to make it not an entitlement.

Just like vouchers. You have just decided that this particular entitlement is good. Spending others tax money is good when it is something that I want it spent on.

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the idea of SNAP is good. the execution of it is less than desirable. but that is for a different thread.

AustinCountyAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Kids benefit from SNAP and Medicaid, that does nothing to make it not an entitlement.

Just like vouchers. You have just decided that this particular entitlement is good. Spending others tax money is good when it is something that I want it spent on.

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the idea of SNAP is good. the execution of it is less than desirable. but that is for a different thread.

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Taking others tax dollars to pay for individual family needs is never good. That is not the role of the government, but rather the church and charities.

Feelings like that are why 2/3 of federal spending goes to individual entitlements.

Survive on your own.

You can't be against school vouchers and for the over-65 tax freeze. It is either a public good that we must all pay for or not.

Okay, that makes sense. Most of those districts still need teachers, they just can't afford to pay for them.

Tom Fox said:

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AustinCountyAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Kids benefit from SNAP and Medicaid, that does nothing to make it not an entitlement.

Just like vouchers. You have just decided that this particular entitlement is good. Spending others tax money is good when it is something that I want it spent on.

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the idea of SNAP is good. the execution of it is less than desirable. but that is for a different thread.

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Taking others tax dollars to pay for individual family needs is never good. That is not the role of the government, but rather the church and charities.

Feelings like that are why 2/3 of federal spending goes to invisible entitlements.

Survive on your own.

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I agree 100%

Survive on your own?!

Did you graduate from A&M? If so, you didn't do it on your own. You benefitted from public money; you got an entitlement. They get about $1 billion from the state/feds per year now and have always gotten public money. People who didn't go to a public U didn't get that entitlement like you did.

Logos Stick said:

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Survive on your own?!

Did you graduate from A&M? If so, you didn't do it on your own. You benefitted from public money; you got an entitlement. They get about $1 billion from the state/feds per year now and have always gotten public money. People who didn't go to a public U didn't get that entitlement like you did.

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No, I attended private college.

Logos Stick said:

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Gradin said:

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Destroying the public school system even more.

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Would be difficult to get worse. The system is intrinsically broken.

This is the first step to fixing education!

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I don't understand this mindset.

Republicans have owned education in Texas for the last 30 years. And now THIS is supposed to fix it?

I am just glad that I don't have any kids in school anymore. I just feel awful for rural schools and inner city kids with parents who will never be able to afford to send their kids these schools that are just going to be dying to accept them. Meanwhile, ****ty kids will still be stuck at public schools.

Omperlodge said:

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You can't be against school vouchers and for the over-65 tax freeze. It is either a public good that we must all pay for or not.

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That's apples to oranges because dressing taxes is letting someone keep more of their own money while the current voucher bills hand out more money than collected from the individual in most cases.

If they made it where you went to the appraisal district with your private school tuition bill and were credited back the ISD taxes that you had paid, I would have zero issue with that bill.

Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Survive on your own?!

Did you graduate from A&M? If so, you didn't do it on your own. You benefitted from public money; you got an entitlement. They get about $1 billion from the state/feds per year now and have always gotten public money. People who didn't go to a public U didn't get that entitlement like you did.

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No, I attended private college.

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Did you get a pell grant? A student loan? Do you itemize on your taxes? Etc... You take "entitlements" just like everyone else.

Republicans don't even own the House of Representatives in Texas currently.

Vouchers will do to private school tuition what student loans have done to college and university tuition.

So what is your solution?

The public school system is broken at the cellular/molecular level. It has to be replaced imo. This is step 1.

Logos Stick said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Survive on your own?!

Did you graduate from A&M? If so, you didn't do it on your own. You benefitted from public money; you got an entitlement. They get about $1 billion from the state/feds per year now and have always gotten public money. People who didn't go to a public U didn't get that entitlement like you did.

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No, I attended private college.

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Did you get a pell grant? A student loan? Do you itemize on your taxes? Etc... You take "entitlements" just like everyone else.

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Nobody is going to get extra credit for refusing to play within the rules we are governed with right now in order to "take a stand."

No matter what we are taking today, we should all be moving towards eliminating as much as possible in the future. That starts with cutting waste and not introducing new entitlement programs.

Charpie said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Gradin said:

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Destroying the public school system even more.

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Would be difficult to get worse. The system is intrinsically broken.

This is the first step to fixing education!

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I don't understand this mindset.

Republicans have owned education in Texas for the last 30 years. And now THIS is supposed to fix it?

I am just glad that I don't have any kids in school anymore. I just feel awful for rural schools and inner city kids with parents who will never be able to afford to send their kids these schools that are just going to be dying to accept them. Meanwhile, ****ty kids will still be stuck at public schools.

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We, the constituents of the rural schools, don't need your pity. HB2 isn't supposed to fix anything, it's a step toward an end goal to better Education in Texas. Rome wasn't built overnight.

Logos Stick said:

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So what is your solution?

The public school system is broken at the cellular/molecular level. It has to be replaced imo. This is step 1.

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Exactly

Logos Stick said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Survive on your own?!

Did you graduate from A&M? If so, you didn't do it on your own. You benefitted from public money; you got an entitlement. They get about $1 billion from the state/feds per year now and have always gotten public money. People who didn't go to a public U didn't get that entitlement like you did.

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No, I attended private college.

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Did you get a pell grant? A student loan? Do you itemize on your taxes? Etc... You take "entitlements" just like everyone else.

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You have an issue with your logical reasoning.

You brought up state universities. Those are analogues to state public schools and I have zero issue with the state choosing to fund those PUBLIC entities. Now if by some reason, A&M and tu became crappy and now SMU, TCU, and Baylor were the elite universities in Texas, I would absolutely have a problem with the state providing means tested vouchers to send kids to those private universities.

Do I itemize my taxes? Yes. Agin your reasoning is flawed just like the person arguing that the over 65 property tax freeze is an entitlement. Tax deductions from my individual earnings allowing me to keep more of my OWN money are not entitlements

This bill provides $10k per student irrespective of how much that family paid in individual ISD taxes and then means tests it. If they made it where you went to the appraisal district with your private school tuition bill and were credited back the ISD taxes that you had paid, I would have zero issue with that bill. That would be analogous to itemizing deductions on your fed income taxes.

And I would be ecstatic with a flat tax with zero deductions that eliminated the ambiguity from federal income taxation and spread the responsibility to all Americans with the franchise.

Edit: I did take a student loan for law school. I get the entitlement of paying $3.5k per month for the past 9 years. Hoorah. I have no issue with student loans as long as they are paid back in full.

I do not understand your reticence to just admit it is an entitlement that you support.

Ryan the Temp said:

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Vouchers will do to private school tuition what student loans have done to college and university tuition.

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There is 0 evidence of this in states that have already implemented it.

Who needs evidence?

Feels is all they need.

Bookmark this thread, because in 5-10 years you'll look back and see a strong correlation between what the opponents of school choice said and how closely it runs to the arguments of socialists that rail against the free markets.

Then you will see that none of the dire predictions they made came about and it will seem silly. This is the experience of states who went through this already have right now.

Phatbob said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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Vouchers will do to private school tuition what student loans have done to college and university tuition.

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There is 0 evidence of this in states that have already implemented it.

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I have nothing to refute that but why should someone already with their kids in private be willing to risk it?

And why would they want to create a new entitlement? History has conclusively shown that once implemented, regardless of unintended consequences, it will never go away. In fact, it will continue to grow.

Not with me. I am a laissez faire free market capitalist.

Tom Fox said:

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Phatbob said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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Vouchers will do to private school tuition what student loans have done to college and university tuition.

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There is 0 evidence of this in states that have already implemented it.

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I have nothing to refute that but why should someone already with their kids in private be willing to risk it?

And why would they want to create a new entitlement? History has conclusively shown that once implemented, regardless of unintended consequences, it will never go away. In fact, it will continue to grow.

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For the 100th time, it is not a new entitlement. It is restructuring an already existing entitlement that will help transition the market to be able to handle it NOT being an entitlement. It's a necessary step to de-socialize an entire industry.

DBird said:

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Charpie said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Gradin said:

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Destroying the public school system even more.

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Would be difficult to get worse. The system is intrinsically broken.

This is the first step to fixing education!

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I don't understand this mindset.

Republicans have owned education in Texas for the last 30 years. And now THIS is supposed to fix it?

I am just glad that I don't have any kids in school anymore. I just feel awful for rural schools and inner city kids with parents who will never be able to afford to send their kids these schools that are just going to be dying to accept them. Meanwhile, ****ty kids will still be stuck at public schools.

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We, the constituents of the rural schools, don't need your pity. HB2 isn't supposed to fix anything, it's a step toward an end goal to better Education in Texas. Rome wasn't built overnight.

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I spend half of my time in rural West Texas. This is going to hurt my little ISD.

Quote:

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You brought up state universities. Those are analogues to state public schools and I have zero issue with the state choosing to fund those PUBLIC entities. Now if by some reason, A&M and tu became crappy and now SMU, TCU, and Baylor were the elite universities in Texas, I would absolutely have a problem with the state providing means tested vouchers to send kids to those private universities.

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In that example, you benefitted from something you did not completely pay for. That's an entitlement per your own definition. You said "survive on your own", which you would not have done if you attended a state U. Taxpayers helped pay for the benefit you received!

Quote:

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Do I itemize my taxes? Yes. Agin your reasoning is flawed just like the person arguing that the over 65 property tax freeze is an entitlement. Tax deductions from my individual earnings allowing me to keep more of my OWN money are not entitlements

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So as long as you get only what you would have paid in taxes, even though everyone doesn't get it, that is not an entitlement per you. If a person uses public ed, most are getting a lot more than their taxes pay for. To me, it's an entitlement if its exclusive, even if it's a tax reduction.

Quote:

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Edit: I did take a student loan for law school. I get the entitlement of paying $3.5k per month for the past 9 years. Hoorah. I have no issue with student loans as long as they are paid back in full.

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The entitlement was deferred interest and payments!

Charpie said:

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DBird said:

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Charpie said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Gradin said:

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Destroying the public school system even more.

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Would be difficult to get worse. The system is intrinsically broken.

This is the first step to fixing education!

---

I don't understand this mindset.

Republicans have owned education in Texas for the last 30 years. And now THIS is supposed to fix it?

I am just glad that I don't have any kids in school anymore. I just feel awful for rural schools and inner city kids with parents who will never be able to afford to send their kids these schools that are just going to be dying to accept them. Meanwhile, ****ty kids will still be stuck at public schools.

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We, the constituents of the rural schools, don't need your pity. HB2 isn't supposed to fix anything, it's a step toward an end goal to better Education in Texas. Rome wasn't built overnight.

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I spend half of my time in rural West Texas. This is going to hurt my little ISD.

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There is 0 chance of that. It might require your little ISD to make some needed changes, but that will help it, not hurt it.