CanyonAg77 said:

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Quit piddling around the tax code and encouraging debt.

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This.

Instead they need to burn the existing tax code to the ground, piss on its ashes and then take a huge dump on what is still smoldering.

Then craft a tax code that isn't progressive, doesn't punish success, is distributed equally amongst everybody and can easily be calculated without having to guess what your burden will be and hope that the IRS agrees with your guess.

BTKAG97 said:

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It's past time for a flat tax with a single, large exemption (expecting income tax to never be replaced).

Making taxes MORE COMPLICATED by adding more BS carve-outs is not what is needed.

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CONSUMPTION TAX. The most "fair" system...by far.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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It's past time for a flat tax with a single, large exemption (expecting income tax to never be replaced).

Making taxes MORE COMPLICATED by adding more BS carve-outs is not what is needed.

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CONSUMPTION TAX. The most "fair" system...by far.

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Nope. You have to tax consumption, wealth and income. Focusing on one component more than the others will allow some people to skate while others have a heavier burden.

The most unfair tax of all is a tax on wealth that is not owned, otherwise known as property tax.

94chem said:

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I buy used cars, and I pay cash. Not really interested in subsidizing your loan.

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So much this.

If you live in a state with high sales tax, and you're upside down on your car and house, why should I subsidize you?

Reward the people who save and invest, not the people.with debt

No the most unfair tax right now is income tax. Some pay nothing while others pay way more than their fair share. Everyone should pay the same. Flat tax no deductions

I agree with this but you already give deductions for mortgage interest rates. Why is the government picking and choosing. I choose not to own a house because I like to move every few years and luckily I have a job that allows me to do that.

94chem said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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It's past time for a flat tax with a single, large exemption (expecting income tax to never be replaced).

Making taxes MORE COMPLICATED by adding more BS carve-outs is not what is needed.

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CONSUMPTION TAX. The most "fair" system...by far.

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Nope. You have to tax consumption, wealth and income. Focusing on one component more than the others will allow some people to skate while others have a heavier burden.

The most unfair tax of all is a tax on wealth that is not owned, otherwise known as property tax.

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You can tax income or consumption, your choice. But it has to be at the same rate and no exemptions. Taxing wealth is double taxation and a non starter.

backintexas2013 said:

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No the most unfair tax right now is income tax. Some pay nothing while others pay way more than their fair share. Everyone should pay the same. Flat tax no deductions

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Preach!

How does everything turn into an argument about "flat tax" vs "consumption tax" or whatever the uninformed decide to call it? We get it. You want an entirely different system and to blow up the income tax. But that's not going to happen without a constitutional amendment. Look at every single country that has tried to do some sort of consumption tax at the same time - they never get rid of the income tax later no matter what they promised. The income tax could be more fair if everyone had to pay something instead of voting on free money for themselves and taxing all the actual contributors.

I'd be perfectly happy changing the tax base so that no deductions are allowed at all for individuals. No standard deduction, no itemized deductions, no education, no nothing. No need to subsidize or encourage actions with tax policy. The problem all you nimrods don't seem to get is that "income" is hard enough to figure out and now that we have a system that does that in a way that makes it very hard to hide income, we're focusing on deductions and credits to buy votes. It's dumb.

And while we're at it, quit *****ing about the 1099-Ks and any other reporting like that. If it causes your tax liability to go up, that means you were doing it wrong before or you are doing it wrong now. Quit admitting you're an idiot.

Kansas Kid said:

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4 said:

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flashplayer said:

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That sounds like a credit, not a deduction. Unless I just forgot math. Which is possible.

If it's a deduction, a $500 deduction isn't really helping people that much.

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It's $500 more than you were getting before on something you were going to buy anyway

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And where is that $500 coming from? Fellow Americans and in this case, American children since it will add to national debt. Do you also support a $500 deduction for student loans? Maybe we should just forgive all car debt at the same time.

No subsidies for any business.

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Things like this are why Trump will never balance the budget, and any statement he makes about doing so is ludicrous.

Tom Fox said:

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94chem said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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It's past time for a flat tax with a single, large exemption (expecting income tax to never be replaced).

Making taxes MORE COMPLICATED by adding more BS carve-outs is not what is needed.

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CONSUMPTION TAX. The most "fair" system...by far.

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Nope. You have to tax consumption, wealth and income. Focusing on one component more than the others will allow some people to skate while others have a heavier burden.

The most unfair tax of all is a tax on wealth that is not owned, otherwise known as property tax.

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You can tax income or consumption, your choice. But it has to be at the same rate and no exemptions. Taxing wealth is double taxation and a non starter.

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Better than taxing something I DON'T own.

If wealth tax is double taxation, then what is property tax?

The only new car I would buy would be from Toyota subaru or honda

I'm wondering how many filers who finance cars itemize rather than take the standard deduction.

94chem said:

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Tom Fox said:

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94chem said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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It's past time for a flat tax with a single, large exemption (expecting income tax to never be replaced).

Making taxes MORE COMPLICATED by adding more BS carve-outs is not what is needed.

---

CONSUMPTION TAX. The most "fair" system...by far.

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Nope. You have to tax consumption, wealth and income. Focusing on one component more than the others will allow some people to skate while others have a heavier burden.

The most unfair tax of all is a tax on wealth that is not owned, otherwise known as property tax.

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You can tax income or consumption, your choice. But it has to be at the same rate and no exemptions. Taxing wealth is double taxation and a non starter.

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Better than taxing something I DON'T own.

If wealth tax is double taxation, then what is property tax?

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One is federal and one is state. That's apples and oranges.

backintexas2013 said:

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94chem said:

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Tom Fox said:

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94chem said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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It's past time for a flat tax with a single, large exemption (expecting income tax to never be replaced).

Making taxes MORE COMPLICATED by adding more BS carve-outs is not what is needed.

---

CONSUMPTION TAX. The most "fair" system...by far.

---

Nope. You have to tax consumption, wealth and income. Focusing on one component more than the others will allow some people to skate while others have a heavier burden.

The most unfair tax of all is a tax on wealth that is not owned, otherwise known as property tax.

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You can tax income or consumption, your choice. But it has to be at the same rate and no exemptions. Taxing wealth is double taxation and a non starter.

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Better than taxing something I DON'T own.

If wealth tax is double taxation, then what is property tax?

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One is federal and one is state. That's apples and oranges.

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Not from a philosophical standpoint. People get absolutely bent out of shape over the idea of a wealth tax, but their largest tax bill is often their property tax.

Owning property is a choice.

Depends on what state you live in. Guessing you have only lived in Texas.

People concerned about a wealth tax are not concerned with property taxes. I pay 20x in income taxes what I pay in property taxes.

Tom Fox said:

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People concerned about a wealth tax are not concerned with property taxes. I pay 20x in income taxes what I pay in property taxes.

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The problem is that a property tax is an income tax. You pay it out of what you make during the year. A wealth tax is basically like a fund management fee.

As Trump continues to navigate down the treacherous road of the populist playbook, it will be interesting to see what moves he makes to give the impression that he is taking from the haves and giving to the have-nots. He has made brilliant use of the oligarchs to bring the media under control, but he will eventually have to start eating them...however, he will have to do it carefully because they were quite helpful in crafting his message. As a "have," you should be quite wary of a populist leader.

MouthBQ98 said:

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American branded cars, or cars manufactured in America? Mby percentage parts, or just assembled in America with mostly foreign made parts? A Chevy made in Mexico, or a Toyota made in Texas, with parts from all over the globe?

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pagerman @ work said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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4 said:

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flashplayer said:

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That sounds like a credit, not a deduction. Unless I just forgot math. Which is possible.

If it's a deduction, a $500 deduction isn't really helping people that much.

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It's $500 more than you were getting before on something you were going to buy anyway

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And where is that $500 coming from? Fellow Americans and in this case, American children since it will add to national debt. Do you also support a $500 deduction for student loans? Maybe we should just forgive all car debt at the same time.

No subsidies for any business.

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Things like this are why Trump will never balance the budget, and any statement he makes about doing so is ludicrous.

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He has very little power to balance the budget even if he didn't spend like a democrat, other than veto I guess

Nice job ignoring that there are states with much less property tax than Texas. Once again federal versus state. You can choose not own property if you don't want to pay the property tax. If a person doesn't have kids they are really getting screwed. They are paying for a public school system they aren't using.


What you wrote is hysterical. There is no proof that Trump is going to go after the "rich". That's wishful thinking by jealous people who envy the rich. No I am not rich at all but in the eyes of liberals I need to pay more while they coast on paying very little income tax.

He is definitely wrong about state property taxes. They are far superior to state income taxes for the reasons you provided.

And I do not think Trump wants to target the rich either.

But I will say this, Republicans do not seem to be prioritizing fixing our taxing structure to where everyone has skin in the game either.

It is actually frightening.

This is much ado about nothing. simply a political move to counter the notion that tariffs on Canada and Mexico will dramatically increase car and truck prices.

But I'm with most of you. The tax code is already incredibly convoluted, and making it more so won't help.

We have some general parameters to operate within that we need to understand.

Taxing income, it seems that no matter the income rate or structure, you get only about a maximum of 16-20% of income as revenues. So, even if your goal is to maximize revenues due to our debt problem, you have to realize that is all you are EVER going to get without first implementing an authoritarian state that can simply take more by force. So, if we have a 25 Trillion economy, your max receipts are $5 Trillion.


The only decision then is how the burden of that 5 trillion gets spread, and how best to spend that 5 trillion between funding legitimate government and retiring debt. And that is only if your goal is optimizing tax receipts due to our debt problem.


Right now, due to credits and welfare, the bottom THREE QUINTILES of the population have effectively the same average household income. Between not paying much, if anything in taxes, and receiving tax credit payments and various welfare and other government provided funds, we have a definite floor that roughly 3/5 of the population settles around.

Very few people who even lift a finger are desperately poor, but a lot are low income. The progressive tax code supports this. Having a voting majority that essentially carries no burden for supporting the state appears to be a necessary evil to at least some extent to buy the socioeconomic stability that keeps that 60% from doing more lunatic things that end up harming standards of living for everyone. It is a high price to pay to buy relatives peace and the opportunity to have opportunity.

backintexas2013 said:

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You can choose not own property if you don't want to pay the property tax. If a person doesn't have kids they are really getting screwed. They are paying for a public school system they aren't using. RENTERS DON'T PAY PROPERTY TAX? HMMM...DIDN'T KNOW THAT. ALSO INTERESTING THAT YOU DERIVE NO BENEFIT FROM STATE EDUCATION.


What you wrote is hysterical. There is no proof that Trump is going to go after the "rich". That's wishful thinking by jealous people who envy the rich. WISHFUL THINKING? JEALOUSY? TRUMP IS OLD AND ONLY SERVES 4 YEARS, BUT AT SOME POINT HE WILL NEED TO TAKE OUT THOSE WHO BANKROLLED HIS CAMPAIGN.

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CanyonAg77 said:

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94chem said:

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I buy used cars, and I pay cash. Not really interested in subsidizing your loan.

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So much this.

If you live in a state with high sales tax, and you're upside down on your car and house, why should I subsidize you?

Reward the people who save and invest, not the people.with debt

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How is it subsidizing a loan?

Everyone seems to be forgetting Trump wants to abolish income taxes for everyone. In order to fund the government he has to develop alternative streams of revenue. The fear is (should he succeed) another administration putting it back.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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94chem said:

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I buy used cars, and I pay cash. Not really interested in subsidizing your loan.

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So much this.

If you live in a state with high sales tax, and you're upside down on your car and house, why should I subsidize you?

Reward the people who save and invest, not the people.with debt

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How is it subsidizing a loan?

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If a person with a loan pays less tax than a person with the same income and no loan, that's a subsidy

deddog said:

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Bad Trump. Government choosing winners and losers is a bad idea.
Why not do the same thing for credit card debt?

What will happen is that car companies will raise prices even more, and people will buy even more cars they can't afford.

This is Clash for Clunkers, Part 2.

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We did, and it was phased out over, if correctly I recall, 5 years ending in the late 80s. It was great.

Tell me how bad it was... lol.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Everyone seems to be forgetting Trump wants to abolish income taxes for everyone. In order to fund the government he has to develop alternative streams of revenue. The fear is (should he succeed) another administration putting it back.

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If true, what has he done to lower the taxes of the highest payers? Sure he is keeping the existing tax cuts, but that is just not raising taxes. How is he lowering them?

I don't have kids and think teachers make exactly what they should if not a bit more than they should if compared to other jobs who work with youth.

It's part of rent. I don't cut a check to tax assessor. I also don't cry about it. Once again it's a state issue. Nevada and other states have a much lower property tax rate. If it's such an issue then move.

You are making assumptions about Trump going about the rich. It won't happen. Now if a dem like Kamala gets elected the "rich" are ****ed. She is one that loves to play class warfare and blame the rich and use the dumbass fair share argument. It's jealousy that she is playing off of people who are wallowing in misery and blame the rich for their lot in life.

Tom Fox said:

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He is definitely wrong about state property taxes. They are far superior to state income taxes for the reasons you provided.

And I do not think Trump wants to target the rich either.

But I will say this, Republicans do not seem to be prioritizing fixing our taxing structure to where everyone has skin in the game either.

It is actually frightening.

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It will never happen. 50% are moochers and nobody wants to piss off those not paying their fair share. This is just like government handouts. Once it starts there is no going back. Look at SS. It's one of the greatest income redistribution schemes out there

It's a good question. It used to be that the standard deduction was much lower and you got to the itemization level fairly easily and now it takes quite a lot of deductions to get there. I'm not
Complaining in any way… I like the simpler approach especially since I don't pay interest on anything any more but the point that this encourages debt and that many that take on the debt still get no tax break from it even though it is billed as a tax break could be considered …. I dunno… maybe "misleading " is the right word?