Even way back when I was in law school, we always joked that our law professors couldn't cut it in private practice, wore a hideous tie to work one day and that was it.

I think I have told the story before about my first year contracts professor. He stopped me after class one day and asked, "Miss aggiehawg, what do you want to do with your law degree?" I flippantly replied, "I have a god complex. I want to be a judge." He chuckled and replied, "If you have a god complex, become a law professor with the power to tell a student they will never be a lawyer. More powerful than being a judge."

But one thing I did notice about my classmates. They were of two minds. One side felt that law school was a conservatizing experience. Learning the rules and how to abide and deal with them. (Me.) And the other felt it was liberal, making them more focused on learning to use the law to stick it to the government and tear down the status quo.

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Even way back when I was in law school, we always joked that our law professors couldn't cut it in private practice, wore a hideous tie to work one day and that was it.

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Many/most law school profs went directly from law school/judicial clerkships to teaching. They have no or very little real world experience. And the little real world experience that they have is acting as consultants to practicing lawyers on a very narrow area in which they have academic expertise.

Charles Alan Wright was one of my profs. For you non-lawyers, he was considered to be THE nations' preeminent expert on procedure in the federal courts. He had a truly formidable mind with a true photographic memory and the ability to carry on legal arguments fluently in multiple languages (he was also very weird in his own way, but that's another story).

A few years after graduation, I was involved in major oil and gas litigation in federal court. Another party's lawyers hired Prof. Wright to argue a procedural motion in federal district court. Prof. Wright made his argument in his academic, pedantic, and pretentious way. When he was finished, the federal judge looked at him and said, "Professor Wright, that may be the interpretation of the rule in your classroom, but it certainly is not in my court."

The party's attempt to win the procedural victory by using a famous law school professor completely backfired.

Jabin said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

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Couldn't be more wrong. BigLaw is a dead end and huge mistake for most lawyers who go that route.

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I dealt with two a few months ago. It was for the sale of a professional practice and associated real estate. The client had two attorneys working on the same transaction. The attorney working in the asset purchase had no idea how to handle the real estate and vice versa. Ridiculous.

Big law is a huge trap. If you don't make partner, you're screwed. Probably similar to getting passed over for major.

Jabin said:

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Quote:

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Even way back when I was in law school, we always joked that our law professors couldn't cut it in private practice, wore a hideous tie to work one day and that was it.

---

Many/most law school profs went directly from law school/judicial clerkships to teaching. They have no or very little real world experience. And the little real world experience that they have is acting as consultants to practicing lawyers on a very narrow area in which they have academic expertise.

Charles Alan Wright was one of my profs. For you non-lawyers, he was considered to be THE nations' preeminent expert on procedure in the federal courts. He had a truly formidable mind with a true photographic memory and the ability to carry on legal arguments fluently in multiple languages (he was also very weird in his own way, but that's another story).

A few years after graduation, I was involved in major oil and gas litigation in federal court. Another party's lawyers hired Prof. Wright to argue a procedural motion in federal district court. Prof. Wright made his argument in his academic, pedantic, and pretentious way. When he was finished, the federal judge looked at him and said, "Professor Wright, that may be the interpretation of the rule in your classroom, but it certainly is not in my court."

The party's attempt to win the procedural victory by using a famous law school professor completely backfired.

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Grades

A's make professors
B's make judges
C's make the money

General Jack D. Ripper said:

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Jabin said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

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Couldn't be more wrong. BigLaw is a dead end and huge mistake for most lawyers who go that route.

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I dealt with two a few months ago. It was for the sale of a professional practice and associated real estate. The client had two attorneys working on the same transaction. The attorney working in the asset purchase had no idea how to handle the real estate and vice versa. Ridiculous.

Big law is a huge trap. If you don't make partner, you're screwed. Probably similar to getting passed over for major.

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On top of that, the big firms made this B.S. divisions.

Equity partner
Non-equity partner
Of counsel
Associates.

My ex worked at Troutman Sanders in ATL. One of the dudes in her ERISA department went to a partner meeting and was mad they (non-equity partners) weren't given the full financials, especially what the full equity guys were making. He made a motion for that to be disclosed. His friend seconded the motion but said, "I'm just doing this for my friend Alan." They held a vote and no one voted for it but Alan.

He was gone within six months. No thank you. Big firms are Ponzi schemes.

I've known four lawyers with private airplanes. All personal injury guys.

Conservative, Aggie Biglaw Partner checking in here!

Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

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Lol. Glad I didn't listen to you! That is an incredibly bad take. Let me guess, as a CPA, you draft Company Agreements for your clients too?

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We had an associate here research an issue and do a memo. It took her several days to get it back. I put it into A.I. and the memo I got back (in < 2 minutes) was just as good. Kind of eye opening.

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Was it as accurate as her work? "Reads good" is not the same. I did an experiment where confirmed some Achilles Heels it has.

I went into science. All those degrees mentioned by OP sounded boring as hell then, and even worse now.

This seems like a decent place to ask since we are discussing the law. I am currently in my 2nd semester of my 2L year. I am looking to move to the New Orleans area after law school to be with my girlfriend and hopefully fianc after this summer. I would love to connect to anyone in that area. I am also looking for a summer job there if anyone knows anyone. I am finding it slightly hard to meet people from my smaller law school in Alabama. I would really appreciate any help or direction anyone would be willing to give. Disclaimer I am older than your average 2L. I worked for over a decade in law enforcement and a couple years on oil rigs. If anyone has any questions or anything please feel free to PM me.

titan said:

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Quote:

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We had an associate here research an issue and do a memo. It took her several days to get it back. I put it into A.I. and the memo I got back (in < 2 minutes) was just as good. Kind of eye opening.

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Was it as accurate as her work? "Reads good" is not the same. I did an experiment where confirmed some Achilles Heels it has.

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Rhyming wedding vows for a cat getting married to a refrigerator of a different religious faith:



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Cat's Vows:
My dearest fridge, so cool and bright,
You hum to me all through the night.
Your shelves hold fish, your drawers keep cream,
You are the answer to my dream.

Though I chase mice and nap in the sun,
You stand still, yet keep me spun.
Though faith divides us, love stays true,
So I say "I do" to only you.


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Refrigerator's Vows:
Oh, furry one, so quick and spry,
You leap with grace while I stand by.
Your whiskers twitch, my light shines bright,
Yet side by side, we feel so right.

Though I am built to chill and stay,
Your warmth is what lights up my day.
Though gods may differ, love prevails,
So here we stand with heartfelt tails.


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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

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This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

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I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

Loser pays is the best option available to us.

Is being in the top 5% of all wage-earners and doing something you enjoy really a cause for complaint?

GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

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This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

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I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

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That doesn't sound possible, but I know very little about the business of private medical practices.

GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

---

This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

---

I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

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Good for them

I don't envy them, and they obviously put in the work and excelled.

Just eye opening and surprising

Tom Fox said:

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GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

---

This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

---

I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

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That doesn't sound possible, but I know very little about the business of private medical practices.

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If you are suggesting the majority of doctors make upper 6 figures a year EVER…much less than in their 30's…prepare to be surprised

I can't verify the source, but looks pretty accurate.

We do very well, but it takes a lot of time and debt to get there.

My guess is it's a higher floor than it is for attorneys…but a much lower ceiling for those at the top of their profession.

GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

---

This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

---

I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

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That doesn't sound possible, but I know very little about the business of private medical practices.

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If you are suggesting the majority of doctors make upper 6 figures a year EVER…much less than in their 30's…prepare to be surprised

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Obviously not in their mid 30s for doctors because attorneys graduate and enter practice at 25 or 26 and doctors not until 30 or so. But I was more surprised that a physician 20 years into their career would make less than $500K-$600K in private practice. They are essentially just selling their time like attorneys. Again I would think people would be willing to find the money to pay for their health or freedom.

I wonder if medical practice overhead is higher than a legal practice. But I bet it has more to do with government intrusion being more significant in skewing your market than mine.

Those numbers seem low.

My middle son will graduate dental school in May and land a starting job $150k to $200k fresh out of dental school.

Doctor $ > Dentist $, at least from how I understood the world.

He's contemplating going on for oral surgery, which could be 3X to 4X standard dentistry if you're good at what you do and in the right place.

I have three high schoolers. I would guess one will go engineering, one finance and I think my youngest would be a great lawyer one day.

Tom Fox said:

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GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

---

This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

---

I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

---

That doesn't sound possible, but I know very little about the business of private medical practices.

---

If you are suggesting the majority of doctors make upper 6 figures a year EVER…much less than in their 30's…prepare to be surprised

---

Obviously not in their mid 30s for doctors because attorneys graduate and enter practice at 25 or 26 and doctors not until 30 or so. But I was more surprised that a physician 20 years into their career would make less than $500K-$600K in private practice. They are essentially just selling their time like attorneys. Again I would think people would be willing to find the money to pay for their health or freedom.

I wonder if medical practice overhead is higher than a legal practice. But I bet it has more to do with government intrusion being more significant in skewing your market than mine.

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A lot of specialists make $4-600K

Primary care less

Income tends to start in that range and stay flat

But I'm not office based, so I can't speak to overhead

I did have a surgeon (now retired) tell me he started private practice in the 80's with just a RN and receptionist…which grew to an office staff of 10 by the 2010s…mostly due to insurance/government bureaucracy

Also was trained by a guy who who made more in the 80s than I do now

Had another surgeon tell me the first 6 cases he did per day were just to cover overhead…and it took the 7th case to put money in his pocket

All anecdotal, so take it with a BIG grain of salt

Still…it's a pretty consistent story I hear, so there's something there…

I think you are on point about the market being skewed

MemphisAg1 said:

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Those numbers seem low.

My middle son will graduate dental school in May and land a starting job $150k to $200k fresh out of dental school.

Doctor $ > Dentist $, at least from how I understood the world.

He's contemplating going on for oral surgery, which could be 3X to 4X standard dentistry if you're good at what you do and in the right place.

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I have no idea what dentists make

Oral surgeons do well, I'm told

I know what my profession makes

And if you take call (not me anymore) in a "good market"…you are making between 4-600K…regardless of how many years you have been doing it

And that starts in your early to mid 30s…with 2-300K in debt for most.

My point was…if money is your primary motivation…there's probably better options

Higher risk to do that, but higher potential upside

GasPasser97 said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Those numbers seem low.

My middle son will graduate dental school in May and land a starting job $150k to $200k fresh out of dental school.

Doctor $ > Dentist $, at least from how I understood the world.

He's contemplating going on for oral surgery, which could be 3X to 4X standard dentistry if you're good at what you do and in the right place.

---

I have no idea what dentists make

Oral surgeons do well, I'm told

I know what my profession makes

And if you take call (not me anymore) in a "good market"…you are making between 4-600K…regardless of how many years you have been doing it

And that starts in your early to mid 30s…with 2-300K in debt for most.

My point was…if money is your primary motivation…there's probably better options

Higher risk to do that, but higher potential upside

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I think your last sentence is key. Lawyer salaries are bimodal. You have attorneys at the top making significantly more than doctors, but have attorneys at the bottom making noticeably less. Not a ton in between.

More risk but higher upside.

Yep

Was mostly responding to this:

But the delta for high performers in their respective fields seems pretty large

I ask why, but the answer is almost always to "follow the money"

Saving big money for large entities pays better than saving (or improving) lives

Just the way it is

Or any of us could win the genetic lottery and make hundreds of millions as professional athletes

Rest well, Ags

I tell my grandkids to be elected to the U.S. congress. Where else can you take 135K/year job and become a multi-millionaire in four years.

We could use some more conservatives in academia also. Throw in the arts as well.

Law is a great field. Helps you learn to think if you never studied philosophy, logic, programming, or geometry. Unfortunately it's expensive and most schools pump out a lot of riff-raff. If you can do a good clerkship, a few years in biglaw to pay down loans/buy a house/get the "credibility" on paper, do it. Then be a public servant or make money to help get others elected, or do whatever you want.

To OP's original point: Anyone successful in any field can also donate money to get good public servants elected.

Tom Fox said:

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[But I was more surprised that a physician 20 years into their career would make less than $500K-$600K in private practice. They are essentially just selling their time like attorneys. Again I would think people would be willing to find the money to pay for their health or freedom.

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Doctors are paid what insurance companies tell them they can bill for their services. Attorneys charge what the market will allow.

909Ag2006 said:

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Conservative, Aggie Biglaw Partner checking in here!

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Thank you. Please one day when you are older or retired, consider running for judge or DA in your county. You can do so much good for society.

GasPasser97 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Too many lawyers as it is; unless you get into one of the top firms out of school it's a dead-end career.

---

This is a very definitive statement that is not entirely true. While I went to a top law school and spent a short stint at big law, my partners did not and they make high 6 figures in their mid 30s.

There are significant opportunities for conservative attorneys from top law schools. 2 out of 5 of my study partners worked in the first Trump admin. 4 out of 5 of us were offered jobs this go around but none accepted because we are all making too much money in our careers now to 10 years post graduation to take a 65-80% pay cut.

---

I should've gone to law school instead of medical school.

Top 5% of my med school class…any residency program I wanted…19 years in private practice and I'm making 1/3 to 1/2 of your colleagues in their mid 30s…

Depressing…

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Are you in primary care? Primary care is much needed and you are doing a great service to our country. I have family members that are specialists at large clinics, partners at those clinics, and are affiliated with large hospitals. They are older but they are making $1M+ every year if not more in medicine. If you are in primary care thank you for your service. We need great doctors like you more than ever now.