BMX Bandit said:

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A primary reason that this will never be successful is that most Americans receive a tax refund.

Last I read, 2/3 of filers get money back. Good luck getting them not to file.


paycheck withholding prevents any meaningful protest. If everyone had to cut a full check on 4/15, you'd see real change in this country

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It's also no coincidence that tax day is almost opposite the calendar as general election day. The system is intentionally designed to separate the people from the emotional connection of parting with their money as much as possible.

Eliminate federal withholding and make tax day close to election day. We wouldn't have to worry about state-sponsored money laundering ever again.

flown-the-coop said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tom Fox said:

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I still owe over $100k more.

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Have you checked the pockets of the pants you wore when we went to that $400k crack party, that one time?

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Crack parties are only deductible by Washington, DC mayors and sons of POTUS. So unless poster is named Hunter, Don, Eric or Barron, he is SOL.

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Any Trump would be sentenced to life in prison. Why would you assume they would get kid glove treatment?

We must hang together, or we shall surely hang separately!

Ellis Wyatt said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tom Fox said:

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I still owe over $100k more.

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Have you checked the pockets of the pants you wore when we went to that $400k crack party, that one time?

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Crack parties are only deductible by Washington, DC mayors and sons of POTUS. So unless poster is named Hunter, Don, Eric or Barron, he is SOL.

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Any Trump would be sentenced to life in prison. Why would you assume they would get kid glove treatment?

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https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-joseph-biden-2021-present#1-Dec-24-pardon

JasonD2005 said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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A primary reason that this will never be successful is that most Americans receive a tax refund.

Last I read, 2/3 of filers get money back. Good luck getting them not to file.


paycheck withholding prevents any meaningful protest. If everyone had to cut a full check on 4/15, you'd see real change in this country

---

It's also no coincidence that tax day is almost opposite the calendar as general election day. The system is intentionally designed to separate the people from the emotional connection of parting with their money as much as possible.

Eliminate federal withholding and make tax day close to election day. We wouldn't have to worry about state-sponsored money laundering ever again.

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Absolutely, lets get back to the days where we load the donkey up with the pregnant wife and trek to Bethlehem to take part in a census and pay taxes.

Without payroll withholding the entire system collapses. Whilst that may seem optimal to some, keeping that money in the pockets of employers and employees would be absolutely disastrous.

It works well now. The fact people cannot estimate their taxes appropriately is not fixed by killing the withholding.

See folks who find themselves tits sideways when they trip the quarterly estimated payments wire.

I've paid quarterly for the past six years. Having a system that promotes individual responsibility is always a good idea. It completely changes your view on fed income taxation.

Tom Fox said:

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I've paid quarterly for the past six years. Having a system that promotes individual responsibility is always a good idea. It completely changes your view on fed income taxation.

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Oh I do not disagree, having done the same for 15 years. But I am a responsible business owner and a recovering CPA.

The average American taxpayer is neither fiscally aware nor responsible. Same for many small business owners unfortunately.

External Revenue Service!!!

flown-the-coop said:

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JasonD2005 said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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A primary reason that this will never be successful is that most Americans receive a tax refund.

Last I read, 2/3 of filers get money back. Good luck getting them not to file.


paycheck withholding prevents any meaningful protest. If everyone had to cut a full check on 4/15, you'd see real change in this country

---

It's also no coincidence that tax day is almost opposite the calendar as general election day. The system is intentionally designed to separate the people from the emotional connection of parting with their money as much as possible.

Eliminate federal withholding and make tax day close to election day. We wouldn't have to worry about state-sponsored money laundering ever again.

---

Absolutely, lets get back to the days where we load the donkey up with the pregnant wife and trek to Bethlehem to take part in a census and pay taxes.

Without payroll withholding the entire system collapses. Whilst that may seem optimal to some, keeping that money in the pockets of employers and employees would be absolutely disastrous.

It works well now. The fact people cannot estimate their taxes appropriately is not fixed by killing the withholding.

See folks who find themselves tits sideways when they trip the quarterly estimated payments wire.

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You have a lot of faith in fiscal idiots.

No matter how much the system encourages individual responsibility, all those people living paycheck to paycheck with no savings and thousands of dollars in credit card debt are not going to do anything any differently if the system required full payment on tax day, other than blow more money on **** they don't need.

What we really need is a system that requires the individual tax payer to cut a check to the government every month instead of withholding that amount from their paycheck. That gives everyone visibility of just how much the government is taking from them without requiring the fiscal idiots to try to save money all year.

Clever. But not a strawman.

It is showing why having people responsible for accumulating their own tax obligation and being prepared to pay it in full on a certain day or month is an inherently bad idea.

If people cannot correlate the taxes they pay to their political preferences and elected officials that is indeed a problem - and I agree that it is true and indeed a problem.

Just do not think the solution you propose would be effective and would likely lead to mass issues, intended or otherwise.

Dr. Nefario said:

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You have a lot of faith in fiscal idiots.

No matter how much the system encourages individual responsibility, all those people living paycheck to paycheck with no savings and thousands of dollars in credit card debt are not going to do anything any differently if the system required full payment on tax day, other than blow more money on **** they don't need.

What we really need is a system that requires the individual tax payer to cut a check to the government every month instead of withholding that amount from their paycheck. That gives everyone visibility of just how much the government is taking from them without requiring the fiscal idiots to try to save money all year.

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If you treat people like children, they behave like children. If you have safety nets that prevent people from facing the full force of their poor decisions, they will continue to make poor decisions.

We are enabling this. People act like they are not adults now until 25.

We need to return to the produce or perish world paradigm. If that comes with dire consequences for some people, so be it.

Tom Fox said:

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I've paid quarterly for the past six years. Having a system that promotes individual responsibility is always a good idea. It completely changes your view on fed income taxation.

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I've always said that if we did away with withholding and every American had to pay quarterly, there would be a tax revolt. It is an extremely painful process.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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gabehcoud said:

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This board wants to dismantle the IRS.

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The IRS should not have armed agents. Ever.

Nor should they be able to seize your bank account or garnish wages without your local government's approval.

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Should also require HOA approval since we're throwing random **** in the air

Lots of good ideas on this thread.

It will take a lot of time to decide on the best protest option.

Cobra39

DaShi said:

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If the public banded together and refused to file, there would be massive change in our favor. Govt is powerless to coerce at that scale

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Since 99% of people have wages garnished and get a return at filing, not filing actually benefits the IRS coffers.

For this to have any real effect on the IRS, participants would have to adjust their withholdings to zero for 2025 and not filing/paying in Apri '26.

Right. A Biden. Not a Trump.

Not to derail, just a note on pardons. Trump would be colossally dumb / naive not to issue blanked pardons for himself, family, and all of his administration on his last day in office.

Biden set the precedent. Absolutely no reason not to do this. Dems have shown they will stop at nothing to get revenge or to assassinate (politically and physically) their opponents.

After seeing all of this fraud and waste, I dont want to pay another dime of federal income tax, nor should we until all of the fraudsters are behind bars and full restitution paid back to the American taxpayer.

I always owe taxes...

I would hope that this level of fraud, waste, abuse and kickbacks does NOT surprise anyone. We new about waste during both Iraq wars, multiple medicare fraud stories, hell even NBC had a segment called "Fleecing of America" on the Nightly News.

The true surprise is having a POTUS and an Executive Branch so unabashedly and completely pulling the curtain back and putting it on front street unfiltered.

Its also surprising that we as Americans have waited so long to finally vote the person in office to blow it up.

But the actual waste and fraud levels should surprise no one.

You do realize most people are over withheld and get refunds
People who write checks when they file their returns have a pretty good life and they ain't going to screw up because of WFA

Sq 17 said:

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You do realize most people are over withheld and get refunds
People who write checks when they file their returns have a pretty good life and they ain't going to screw up because of WFA

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Then there needs to be a massive movement of people adjusting W4's in advance. Hell, if just 800k to 1 million did this, WTF could they do?

It will never happen, but it's about the only peaceful way I can think of to take the power back and put the thieving scoundrels in DC on notice.

It's that or bloodshed.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Sq 17 said:

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You do realize most people are over withheld and get refunds
People who write checks when they file their returns have a pretty good life and they ain't going to screw up because of WFA

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Then there needs to be a massive movement of people adjusting W4's in advance. Hell, if just 800k to 1 million did this, WTF could they do?

It will never happen, but it's about the only peaceful way I can think of to take the power back and put the thieving scoundrels in DC on notice.

It's that or bloodshed.

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I agree with the sentiment, but currently their solution would be to make the printer and debt clock go brrr.

Until the people truly take the power back, then you still have to bend the knee to the tax man.

flown-the-coop said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Sq 17 said:

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You do realize most people are over withheld and get refunds
People who write checks when they file their returns have a pretty good life and they ain't going to screw up because of WFA

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Then there needs to be a massive movement of people adjusting W4's in advance. Hell, if just 800k to 1 million did this, WTF could they do?

It will never happen, but it's about the only peaceful way I can think of to take the power back and put the thieving scoundrels in DC on notice.

It's that or bloodshed.

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I agree with the sentiment, but currently their solution would be to make the printer and debt clock go brrr.

Until the people truly take the power back, then you still have to bend the knee to the tax man.

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flown-the-coop said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Sq 17 said:

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You do realize most people are over withheld and get refunds
People who write checks when they file their returns have a pretty good life and they ain't going to screw up because of WFA

---

Then there needs to be a massive movement of people adjusting W4's in advance. Hell, if just 800k to 1 million did this, WTF could they do?

It will never happen, but it's about the only peaceful way I can think of to take the power back and put the thieving scoundrels in DC on notice.

It's that or bloodshed.

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I agree with the sentiment, but currently their solution would be to make the printer and debt clock go brrr.

Until the people truly take the power back, then you still have to bend the knee to the tax man.

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I don't know man, I think they would freak the F out if a sizable chunk stopped paying taxes. Partly because they would soon realize they were powerless to stop it and it very well could become an unstoppable and growing trend. What could they do to us if 1-10MM people just stopped? Again, pipe dream, would require too much effort and coordination. But fun to daydream about.

MouthBQ98 said:

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As with any dissenting or revolutionary act: the first to act will suffer greatly. Only if they are willing to sacrifice and numbers take up the cause would there be success, so nobody want to be first.

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Not always. Sometimes it is successful enough out the gate. Like with Lech Walesa's effort. He lived to talk about it.