usmcbrooks said:

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Vietnam and Afghanistan were lost because of politicians. We didn't lose in Iraq.

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We lost in Iraq. It just turned to Guerrilla warfare.

Bullcrap.

The Fall Guy said:

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usmcbrooks said:

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Vietnam and Afghanistan were lost because of politicians. We didn't lose in Iraq.

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We lost in Iraq. It just turned to Guerrilla warfare.

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Disagree, we did not lose the fight in Iraq.

The Fall Guy said:

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usmcbrooks said:

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Neither were the VC, Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc.

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How did that work for us? We lost each war.

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WTF. We didn't lose those wars. Taliban, Al Queda. The Dems lost the victory just like they mess up everything they touch

Its not bullcrap

We can agree to disagree.

We're going to unleash the Lioness on their asses.

The Fall Guy said:

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CoachtobeNamed$$$ said:

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The Fall Guy said:

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schmellba99 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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The Fall Guy said:

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Are yall ready for retaliatory strikes against Americans? Serious question

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Yes. I am. What's the alternative? You must like being the doormat to the third world.

Good lord you sound like such a limp wrist.

It is well past time that Mexico gets bich slapped around. The cartels, their govt, all of it. The entire border crisis exists because Mexico allows it to exist. We're not going to allow that anymore.

Oh no, no avocados from Mex-i-co! Who cares.

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Torturing and murdering people and terrorism are just business decisions to the cartels. What exactly do you think they're going to do when you start attacking them on their own ground and pose an existential threat?

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Well, assuming there are less cartel folks after these hypothetical strikes...less torturing and murdering, because less cartel bad guys.

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With 500 guys waiting to replace the guys killed. There will not be less. These guys are like Hamas. Will never go away until ypu wipe out the drug users here. Ever heard of Supply and demand?

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Homes, homes, homes. SMMFH. Destroy the crap out of them. There wasn't anyone willing to step into Hitlers shoes. Annihilate.
Sit this one out and quit wringing your hands.

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You will eventually sorely disappointed. They are not a conventional army like the Nazis.

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So in typical fashion, you want to do more of the same that's been ineffective for generations. Coke supply diminished when Pablo Escobar was running for his life. The mistake was, once we killed Pablo, another Pablo stepped into his shoes. The answer is to keep killing Pablos. It's a lot cheaper and much more humane than allowing Pablos to poison our youth. With drone technology, we can kill Pablos until the end of time at vastly less cost than the cost of policing the border and addiction treatment.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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The Fall Guy said:

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Are yall ready for retaliatory strikes against Americans? Serious question

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Yes. I am. What's the alternative? You must like being the doormat to the third world.

Good lord you sound like such a limp wrist.

It is well past time that Mexico gets bich slapped around. The cartels, their govt, all of it. The entire border crisis exists because Mexico allows it to exist. We're not going to allow that anymore.

Oh no, no avocados from Mex-i-co! Who cares.

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Torturing and murdering people and terrorism are just business decisions to the cartels. What exactly do you think they're going to do when you start attacking them on their own ground and pose an existential threat?

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Well, assuming there are less cartel folks after these hypothetical strikes...less torturing and murdering, because less cartel bad guys.

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So you really think we're going to kill a bunch of cartel members and then the rest are going to... just walk away?

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I think we need to make it so unbearable to be a cartel membr that being one is not an option most will entertain.

That means doing things that folks like you would cry and wail over. If you are going to engage in combat, you need to play to win. That means showing your enemy that you are willing to do things they are not for longer than they are willing to tolerate.

War is not pretty. We need to understand that fact. More importantly, we need to ensure they understand that fact.

Or we can sit back, wring our hands and be at the mercy of those that will do those things because we poo our pa ties at the thought of them being mad.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Yeah. Everyone's all ready to ride until they realize that the consequences for an airstrike in Jalisco may be Jorge and Alejandro shooting up a daycare in Houston or bombing a Sunday service in Amarillo. Or worse.

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If you think this is a realistic threat, the answer isn't allow them to continue to operate with impunity. It's either a threat or it's not. If it's a threat, it needs to be addressed.

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Addressr by, as others have said, having a solid strategy.

Appoint more judges to streamline asylum and deportation hearings to days instead of months or years. Expand CBP and use the national guard to secure the border. Apply more leverage on Mexico to address the problem on their side, and give them all the intelligence assistance possible.

But don't kick the hornets' nest. The cartels are like hamas, but they're more business motivated and without the motivation to just randomly kill people. Become an existential threat to their business, though, and they will be highly motivated to do exactly that. Deciding you're going to drone the cartels or send in special forces teams like they're isis or al qaeda would be like stomping on an ant mound to get rid of the ants. You're just going to piss them off and spread them around.

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Your last paragraph is a perfect example of the modern military and political thought and what we have become over the last 100ish years. And why we are in the position we are.

It is sickening and sad.

I hope Trump goes after the Cartels, don’t you? pic.twitter.com/Za6dHvW1Ph

— Johnny Midnight ⚡️ (@its_The_Dr) January 20, 2025

ABATTBQ11 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Yeah. Everyone's all ready to ride until they realize that the consequences for an airstrike in Jalisco may be Jorge and Alejandro shooting up a daycare in Houston or bombing a Sunday service in Amarillo. Or worse.

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If you think this is a realistic threat, the answer isn't allow them to continue to operate with impunity. It's either a threat or it's not. If it's a threat, it needs to be addressed.

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Addressr by, as others have said, having a solid strategy.

Appoint more judges to streamline asylum and deportation hearings to days instead of months or years. Expand CBP and use the national guard to secure the border. Apply more leverage on Mexico to address the problem on their side, and give them all the intelligence assistance possible.

But don't kick the hornets' nest. The cartels are like hamas, but they're more business motivated and without the motivation to just randomly kill people. Become an existential threat to their business, though, and they will be highly motivated to do exactly that. Deciding you're going to drone the cartels or send in special forces teams like they're isis or al qaeda would be like stomping on an ant mound to get rid of the ants. You're just going to piss them off and spread them around.

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Tell me you have never delt with these *******s without telling me. I've lost friends, sgts, and family to cartel members. I'm more than happy to stand at the border and take pop shots at anything that moves.

I have seen several posters compare the cartels to hamas.

Tell me - how has hamas reacted since Israel decided to tell the wold to F off and go full bore on returning fire against them? Exploding pagers, full on offensive military tactics, assasinations of leadership, etc.?

They ran and cried for a cease fire like *****es as soon as the war was brought to their doorstep.

Hamas, like the cartels, exist and operate how they do because nobody has provided any incentive not to act like savages.

John Travolta's monologue in Swordfish should be an operational strategy, not a hollywood fantasy.

Inject this directly into my veins pic.twitter.com/jDKhe38CGO

— William Wheelwright (@ploughmansfolly) January 21, 2025

schmellba99 said:

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I have seen several posters compare the cartels to hamas.

Tell me - how has hamas reacted since Israel decided to tell the wold to F off and go full bore on returning fire against them? Exploding pagers, full on offensive military tactics, assasinations of leadership, etc.?

They ran and cried for a cease fire like *****es as soon as the war was brought to their doorstep.

Hamas, like the cartels, exist and operate how they do because nobody has provided any incentive not to act like savages.

John Travolta's monologue in Swordfish should be an operational strategy, not a hollywood fantasy.

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They are still around and in 5 years will be back in full force with the next set of devotees. Same for the cartels. Money talks

If you don't have the hair on your neck stand up everytime you hear the song Funky Town, you don't know what these people are capable of.

Ultraviolence is appropriately used here.

War? Who are we at war with?

Anyone who impinges on America's freedom. Terrorist states, Stanley. Someone must bring their war to them. They bomb a church, we bomb ten. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourists, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that it becomes unthinkable to attack Americans.

Fitch said:

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Inject this directly into my veins pic.twitter.com/jDKhe38CGO

— William Wheelwright (@ploughmansfolly) January 21, 2025

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Former Marine 0326 here. Every Marine Raider just got a hard on just like the rest of the tier 1 guys like Seals, Delta, Rangers.

I'm all for this!

I'd also be all for harsh penalties for consumers of the **** they bring over here. They wouldn't be here if this country didn't have such an enormous appetite for their products. The argument could be made that the problem is more in the mirror than out the window.

I'll remind the thread that when a group of Americans were murdered by a cartel in Mexico a few years ago, the cartel preemptively killed their own guys that did it and served up their bodies to head off retaliation from us.

Catag94 said:

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I'm all for this!

I'd also be all for harsh penalties for consumers of the **** they bring over here. They wouldn't be here if this country didn't have such an enormous appetite for their products. The argument could be made that the problem is more in the mirror than out the window.

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Thank you for the common sense approach. Much appreciated

schmellba99 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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The Fall Guy said:

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Are yall ready for retaliatory strikes against Americans? Serious question

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Yes. I am. What's the alternative? You must like being the doormat to the third world.

Good lord you sound like such a limp wrist.

It is well past time that Mexico gets bich slapped around. The cartels, their govt, all of it. The entire border crisis exists because Mexico allows it to exist. We're not going to allow that anymore.

Oh no, no avocados from Mex-i-co! Who cares.

---

Torturing and murdering people and terrorism are just business decisions to the cartels. What exactly do you think they're going to do when you start attacking them on their own ground and pose an existential threat?

---

Well, assuming there are less cartel folks after these hypothetical strikes...less torturing and murdering, because less cartel bad guys.

---

So you really think we're going to kill a bunch of cartel members and then the rest are going to... just walk away?

---

I think we need to make it so unbearable to be a cartel membr that being one is not an option most will entertain.

That means doing things that folks like you would cry and wail over. If you are going to engage in combat, you need to play to win. That means showing your enemy that you are willing to do things they are not for longer than they are willing to tolerate.

War is not pretty. We need to understand that fact. More importantly, we need to ensure they understand that fact.

Or we can sit back, wring our hands and be at the mercy of those that will do those things because we poo our pa ties at the thought of them being mad.

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We can also make Marijuana legal in every state, thereby reducing the cartels influence and power.

If we're serious about hurting them, there's no reason not to do everything possible, and Marijuana legal is something very possible.

I agree. Although I think we need to have our eyes fully open on that. MJ becoming more legal in the states has taken away a primary revenue source for them historically, and has turned the cartels (the ones who aren't already operating in the states) to more hardcore sources of cash like sex trafficking, fentanyl, and illegal border crossing. It causes them to pursue more drastic things that draw the ire of the American government. And the poster who equated them to Hamas is pretty accurate as well. It's not movie bad guys with billions of dollars we need to stop, it's a bunch of 15 year old boys who have been radicalized.

That being said, there are absolutely branches of the cartel operating in the states and growing grey market weed to sell illegally in states that have already legalized.

Curious what the outcome ends up being. Are we truly greenlighting JSOC to begin hitting the cartels? What does that look like? Are we just going to blatantly ignore Mexican sovereignty and start killing anyone involved with the Cartels?

They are so ingrained in not only Mexico but in the US. Truly getting into a hot war with the cartels could end up being much more violent than we expect. I don't think you can go as hard at them as Trump allowed the military to go after ISIS in Syria and the rest of the middle east. If we did, i'm sure JSOC would take the fight out of them very quickly.

I would be surprised if we start hearing about direct action operations within Mexico; that would be an extreme escalation. They stand no chance against our military that their only targets for retaliation end up being citizens.

I mean, other than the dozen or so people in those meetings who can really say if there's really an intent or really real consideration to send troops into Mexico to deal with the cartels? All speculation right now.

But as for myself, that deployment seems far more sensible and of more imminent threat to our continental security than anything in the ME or Asia, even with the hair on possibility violating Mexican sovereignty.

They are already here and operating in several states and are an active conduit for Chinese degradation of our citizenry. If we don't ****** their expansionism and prune them out altogether then there's a very real possibility that it becomes impossible to remove them a la other organized crime syndicates in the north east coastal cities.

Absolutely there would be broad fall out within Mexico, given how entrenched they are in the economic and political spheres, but if / when Mexicans don't have to worry about prolific kidnappings, beheadings and open murder of political opponents then one would hope they could figure out how to normalize their national economy.

The cartels have large armies. Well armed with real weapons of war. Technical vehicles, etc.

If we send in a seal team of 20, the cartels will send an army of 100. Then we're looking at another lone survivor situation. This is going to be more complicated than y'all are expecting.

The Fall Guy said:

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Yall are whistling Dixie. No airstrikes are going to happen or drone strikes. It will be CIA, possibly navy seals and other elite squads

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going to be quite the conundrum for the CIA with all the kick backs they are receiving from the cartels.

ATX_AG_08 said:

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The cartels have large armies. Well armed with real weapons of war. Technical vehicles, etc.

If we send in a seal team of 20, the cartels will send an army of 100. Then we're looking at another one survivor situation. This is going to be more complicated than y'all are expecting.

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Look what Israel did to Gaza. Would be just as easy to do this to the cartel farms and manufacturing areas if we wanted to do it that way (doubt we will). They have zero air defenses and are less capable militarily than groups like hamas. The cartel does have a lot of money though and have been paying the right people enough money to keep them operational. Will be interesting if we take the military or monetary approach with the TO designation.

You know what airpower will do to those stolen up armored f550s?

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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I agree. Although I think we need to have our eyes fully open on that. MJ becoming more legal in the states has taken away a primary revenue source for them historically, and has turned the cartels (the ones who aren't already operating in the states) to more hardcore sources of cash like sex trafficking, fentanyl, and illegal border crossing. It causes them to pursue more drastic things that draw the ire of the American government. And the poster who equated them to Hamas is pretty accurate as well. It's not movie bad guys with billions of dollars we need to stop, it's a bunch of 15 year old boys who have been radicalized.

That being said, there are absolutely branches of the cartel operating in the states and growing grey market weed to sell illegally in states that have already legalized.

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I didn't see the post with thy equating to Hamas, but it's a good one. And, yes, we need to look into those teenagers as well.

ATX_AG_08 said:

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The cartels have large armies. Well armed with real weapons of war. Technical vehicles, etc.

If we send in a seal team of 20, the cartels will send an army of 100. Then we're looking at another one survivor situation. This is going to be more complicated than y'all are expecting.

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Who?mikejones! said:

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You know what airpower will do to those stolen up armored f550s?

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You know what the media will do once there starts being civilian casualties? Y'all are smoking crack if you think there's going to be an easy solution to this.

Lathspell said:

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Curious what the outcome ends up being. Are we truly greenlighting JSOC to begin hitting the cartels? What does that look like? Are we just going to blatantly ignore Mexican sovereignty and start killing anyone involved with the Cartels?

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Yes. The Mexican government clearly doesn't give a **** about our sovereignty and hasn't for half a century.

They don't like it? Tough *****

ATX_AG_08 said:

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The cartels have large armies. Well armed with real weapons of war. Technical vehicles, etc.

If we send in a seal team of 20, the cartels will send an army of 100. Then we're looking at another one survivor situation. This is going to be more complicated than y'all are expecting.

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Blatantly naive. The cartel will run from our military before they fight.

They're built to take on cops. Not armies.