FlyRod said:

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https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

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No one cares what a bunch of biased, leftist academicians thinks.

FDR, Obama, Wilson, Johnson, Clinton and Grant in the top half?

It is to laugh.

Rapier108 said:

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Secolobo said:

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titan said:

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Secolobo said:

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My grandmother that was 92 when she died always said fdr was the worst president of her lifetime.

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My NewYork grandparents and relatives on Dad's side thought that too, and interestingly enough, it was because saw him as a "communist". Back then it seemed hard to square with the WW II imagery of him, but his policies in the Depression were not much heard about.

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She always said that due to fdr's policies, the depression lasted twice as long as it should have.

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She was correct.

The only thing that brought us out of the depression was the Second World War.

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And that only did it in stats only. Sure GDP went up and unemployment went down, but they were producing weapons of war, not products that consumers wanted or needed. People actually suffered through severe scarcity and rationing, but since it was for the war, they considered it their patriotic duty and didn't complain.

Absent the war, that would have been a huge malinvestment. We would have blown a lot of money on planes, ships, and guns that nobody had much use for. It would be like the government paying people to dig holes, and paying somebody else to fill them back up again. But with the war, that waste was preferable to losing.

CanyonAg77 said:

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FlyRod said:

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https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

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No one cares what a bunch of biased, leftist academicians thinks.

FDR, Obama, Wilson, Johnson, Clinton and Grant in the top half?

It is to laugh.

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That's when you get when history departments purge all of the sane people out of academia.

doubledog said:

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My parents thought that FDR was one of the greatest presidents, and they lived through the Great Depression, Dust Bowl and WWII. Did any of you?

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My parents did. My mother's family was rural Tennessee farmers and school teachers. They venerated FDR but it was through the dual lenses that "FDR saved us from Hitler" and the TVA brought prosperity. On a personal level, they were neighbors and friends of Al Sr. and Pauline Gore. Al always brought home the New Deal bacon so he was also venerated. On many occasions I found that a discussion with my mother about the era of her childhood during the Great Depression would turn into a debate about why the Depression lasted a decade an three terms under FDR before the war mobilization pulled the economy out in spite of New Deal economic theories.

Amity Schlae's book The Forgotten Man provides a very good glimpse into the mind and motivations of FDR and his Brain Trust. There were some really bad characters among them like Wallace, Ickes, and Tugwell who idolized Stalin and wanted to emulate many policies of the USSR, e.g. the National Recovery Act and the Civilian Conservation Corps. Kamala's idea to tax unrealized capital gains was just copying DR'S Retained Profits Tax. They have always been anticapitalists that wanted to rule by autocratic impulse.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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How many American German or Italian camps were there?

You know what else ended the Depression?

Rain.

Clavell said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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How many American German or Italian camps were there?

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WIKI:

Quote:

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A total of 11,507 people of German ancestry were interned during the war, comprising 36.1% of the total internments under the US Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program

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There were a few. There were three in Texas: Crystal City, Seagoville, Kenedy.

Racism was likely a part of the reason for Interment. But the resentment of the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor played a huge role, and the traitorous actions of a few Hawaiian Japanese Americans didn't help.

And there were real fears that Japan could attack the West Coast. No one was at worried that Germany or Italy were sending their Navy against us. And Germany and Italy never attacked an American territory, that I can recall.

Add to that the fact that German-Americans had proven their loyalty in the first World War.

Japanese Americans kept much closer ties to their homeland, sent children there to be educated, and possibly still revered the Emperor as a god.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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titan said:

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Secolobo said:

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My grandmother that was 92 when she died always said fdr was the worst president of her lifetime.

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My NewYork grandparents and relatives on Dad's side thought that too, and interestingly enough, it was because saw him as a "communist". Back then it seemed hard to square with the WW II imagery of him, but his policies in the Depression were not much heard about.

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FDR was 100% a communist sympathizer. He probably was one himself.

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Just walk through his memorial in DC. He was 100% a commie.

bonfarr said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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If we rounded up Muslims after 911 and locked them up in camps while we were in Afghanistan and Iraq would you consider that racist?

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All Muslims or certain ones from the country that attacked us?

Clavell said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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How many American German or Italian camps were there?

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Any Germans or Italians attack the continental US (Oregon was attacked by the Japs)? Also almost all Japanese-Americans were concentrated in Cali, which was a vulnerable region. Especially if you had potential collaborators of some sort helping by delivering intel that could help the Japs or their fighters.

Messed up that it happened, but not sure if racist.

I don't fault the FDR admin for internment of Japanese. We were in a war of national survival. Hard stop right there.

Germans and Italians were well entrenched in American society for much, much, longer. Germans almost back to the beginning. Italians since the mid 1850's. They integrated easily. Not true for the Japanese. And I say that as a fan of Japanese people and their culture (minus the weird stuff in the last few decades).

Again, it was about national survival and people need to view in that historical context and stop whining, especially considering the reality of the Pearl Harbour attack.

That said, I am 100% in line with the notion that FDR was likely our worst POTUS, if not, top three. Definite commie sympathizer. His policies entrenched us in the socialist light BS we have been fighting ever since. LBJ, Carter, Obama, and Biden, just made it all the more worse.

As a never ending student of history, I learned pretty early that crediting FDR with our victory in WWII was complete BS. American and British Generals won WWII. Churchill deserves credit. FDR was dying old sack socialist crap. Ike steered the Allies through that time, not FDR.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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bonfarr said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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If we rounded up Muslims after 911 and locked them up in camps while we were in Afghanistan and Iraq would you consider that racist?

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All Muslims or certain ones from the country that attacked us?

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The hijackers were from 4 different countries.

Urban Ag said:

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I don't fault the FDR admin for internment of Japanese. We were in a war of national survival. Hard stop right there.

Germans and Italians were well entrenched in American society for much, much, longer. Germans almost back to the beginning. Italians since the mid 1850's. They integrated easily. Not true for the Japanese. And I say that as a fan of Japanese people and their culture (minus the weird stuff in the last few decades).

Again, it was about national survival and people need to view in that historical context and stop whining, especially considering the reality of the Pearl Harbour attack.

That said, I am 100% in line with the notion that FDR was likely our worst POTUS, if not, top three. Definite commie sympathizer. His policies entrenched us in the socialist light BS we have been fighting ever since. LBJ, Carter, Obama, and Biden, just made it all the more worse.

As a never ending student of history, I learned pretty early that crediting FDR with our victory in WWII was complete BS. American and British Generals won WWII. Churchill deserves credit. FDR was dying old sack socialist crap. Ike steered the Allies through that time, not FDR.

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Very well said.

Also this…would they have done the same (if not worse) with the shoe on the other foot? Well, it's a moot point because they never would have even let us inhabit their country in the first place, and if by off chance they did, you'd always be a second class white/black/brown American inferior piece of trash.

titan said:

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Depression era FDR policies should be seperated from wartime FDR.

It wash the former Secretary of the Navy FDR persona that was in WW II and he made good decisions just before the war and during. (By the time of Yalta, he is a fading wreck, and the only thing that should be held against him is running in 1944 in the same sense that Biden running in 2024 was also the result of a cover-up. He should not have run then)

On more thought, another thing to hold against him is his tendency to pit commands against one another at the cost of a unified command. This cost more than one setback and nearly caused some disasters.

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FDR's last term got us Harry Truman, who stepped into guite a predicament and saved 100's of thousands of American lives by dropping the bombs. Some say it was a bad deal but it was that or spilling more American and Japanese blood.

doubledog said:

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My parents thought that FDR was one of the greatest presidents, and they lived through the Great Depression, Dust Bowl and WWII. Did any of you?

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Mine did, dad hated fdr with a white hot passion for his policies during the depression. He used to tell stories about slaughter and burial of livestock mandated by government policies.
He didn't even like to take Roosevelt dimes in change.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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Regardless, it was a horrible thing to do. The left always accuses Trump of getting ready to do this yet their side is the one that actually did it.

Executive Order 6102

FDR was a communist.

TTUArmy said:

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Executive Order 6102

FDR was a communist.

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Henry Morganthau was FDR's Secretary of the Treasury. Since DR's seizure of private gold, there was no open market in which the peice per ounce could be set so Morganthau would basically put a number out of thin air and tell FDR. FDR would frequently change to price per ounce to a value ending in the number 7 cents. Because 7 is a lucky number. They had no concept of a price regulated market. They were just mimicking Stalin.

Many of FDR's cabinet and advisors had been members of "the Travelers" mission in 1927 to visit the USSR to learn from the new Soviet economic and industrial wizards. The Travelers were Wilsonian progressives that were looking for inspiration in the USSR to bring Marxist ideas to the US once the Coolidge administration was gone. The basically swallowed huge amounts of propaganda that was regurgitated on the United States when FDR came to power.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Japanese Americans in Hawaii aided a downed Japanese Airman from the Pearl Harbor attack.

Had that not happened, I doubt the massive internment would have happened.

The biggest disgrace is that the camps continued past June 1942, after the Battle of Midway ended any risk of a Japanese invasion of the Mainland.

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Hawaii was not a State in 1941. Are you sure they were American?

Everyone in the 1930s was a racist by today's standards. And the Japanese internment camps had something like 90% approval from Americans. It was nearly unanimous.

But yes FDR's glistening legacy is largely revisionist history. He was a good wartime president but his lasting policy legacy is very poor.

ts5641 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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Regardless, it was a horrible thing to do. The left always accuses Trump of getting ready to do this yet their side is the one that actually did it.

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Sure, but again nearly every voting age American approved of it.

We should be careful when judging the past based on our modern moral sensibilities. Imagine what they'll say about us one day?

Quote:

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Hawaii was not a State in 1941. Are you sure they were American?

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Haven't found a certain answer, but I'm 99% sure that most US territories, the residents are US Citizens. Samoans appear to have an option to be citizens or not.

Woodrow Wilson has proven to be our worst POTUS imo

FDR introduced a lot of programs during his presidency that haunt us until today.

But he was crazy popular (elected 4 times), led us through WWII, approved the Manhattan Project, the US became the strongest country in the world under his leadership.

He made plenty of mistakes but as other have mentioned, isn't close to the worst.

titan said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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I've maintained for a couple of decades he's been the worst president ever.

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No, that probably goes to Wilson and LBJ.

Biden has been the most anti-American admin and willfully destructive, but didn't get much legacy law enshrined like those.

Edit -- you were speaking about FDR though.

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Without the foundation laid by the odious Woodrow Wilson, FDR and LBJ could not have existed.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Everyone in the 1930s was a racist by today's standards. And the Japanese internment camps had something like 90% approval from Americans. It was nearly unanimous.

But yes FDR's glistening legacy is largely revisionist history. He was a good wartime president but his lasting policy legacy is very poor.

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He was a good war time president because he let his generals run the war. We were incredibly blessed as a nation to have the men in those positions that we did at the time. Incredibly blessed. Ike, Bradley, Patton, MacArthur, Nimitz, Marshall, etc, saved the United States. Not saying you're saying otherwise, I just can't point out enough how much FDR has been lionized in history when all he really did was oversee the Great Depression and introduce socialism to America. He was terrible for the future of this republic.

doubledog said:

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My parents thought that FDR was one of the greatest presidents, and they lived through the Great Depression, Dust Bowl and WWII. Did any of you?

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My parents lived through all three and though FDR was an SOB. They would have voted for LBJ over him, and that's saying a lot.

Northern liberals of the '30s and '40s, just like leftists today, thought food came from grocery stores. Not saying there weren't democrats in Texas during that time -- hell, there were nothing BUT democrats. Say you were a Republican and you might have well have said you're a homosexual. But there were few, if any, liberal democrats, at least in Texas. Ralph Yarborough was a distant minority at the time and had little to no power.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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I think that part of it had to be because of the incident on Ni'ihau (one of the Hawaiian islands).

Here's my understanding of the incident: The Japanese supposedly thought that Ni'ihau was unpopulated and so they instructed their pilots that if they couldn't make it to the ship to try to land on Ni-ihau following the attack on Pearl Harbor. One Japanese pilot did just that. There were apparently two people on the island of Japanese descent. One of them had been born in Japan but had let there long before. In spite of no current contact with Japan, the two of them jumped to the aid of the pilot to try to help him avoid being held prisoner. I think both went to prison, but their sentences were rather light considering the circumstances.

That two Japanese Americans with such limited ties to Japan would so quickly and without thought jump in on the side of Japan scared the leadership of the military and may have influenced strongly the decision to create internment camps in the continental US.

It is easy for to blame FDR and others after the fact. If they had been there, I wonder if these Monday morning quarterbacks would have done differently based on the knowledge available at that time.

FDR probably prolonged the depression by a few years TBH. There's a very realistic scenario where we were already out of it well before we entered the war. The New Deal actually worsened unemployment and it didn't reach pre-New Deal depression unemployment rates until 1942. His price controls really distorted the market.

Clavell said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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How many American German or Italian camps were there?

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We did have prisoner of war camps in Texas.

Urban Ag said:

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I don't fault the FDR admin for internment of Japanese. We were in a war of national survival. Hard stop right there.

Germans and Italians were well entrenched in American society for much, much, longer. Germans almost back to the beginning. Italians since the mid 1850's. They integrated easily. Not true for the Japanese. And I say that as a fan of Japanese people and their culture (minus the weird stuff in the last few decades).

Again, it was about national survival and people need to view in that historical context and stop whining, especially considering the reality of the Pearl Harbour attack.

That said, I am 100% in line with the notion that FDR was likely our worst POTUS, if not, top three. Definite commie sympathizer. His policies entrenched us in the socialist light BS we have been fighting ever since. LBJ, Carter, Obama, and Biden, just made it all the more worse.

As a never ending student of history, I learned pretty early that crediting FDR with our victory in WWII was complete BS. American and British Generals won WWII. Churchill deserves credit. FDR was dying old sack socialist crap. Ike steered the Allies through that time, not FDR.

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Our intelligence efforts played a much larger part in the win than most people know about.

Imagine what would have happened if we were surprised by the attack on Midway and fell into Japan's trap.

Don't for the runner up for worst President of all time. LBJ also a racist by declaring war on the AA Father in their families. AA society is a train wreck on some many levels, and the Demcrats are responsible for 95 % of it all. If we did not have Libs/Marxist and their policies infecting America like a cancer for the last 95 years. Can you imagine what a great country this would be and how everybody's quality of life would be so much better. Just a F'ing tragedy !!!!!

eric76 said:

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Clavell said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Not sure about racist. Did he do that with all Asians or just specifically the ones from a country who attacked us and may have had spies or attackers here?

Not condoning it, just not sure if his motives were racism.

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How many American German or Italian camps were there?

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We did have prisoner of war camps in Texas.

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The POW camps were for enemy combatants. Not citizens.

That said, my German family in New Braunfels was still speaking German until WWII and stopped largely because everyone looked at them with suspicion. My mother attends a church that still has a WWI era letter from the War Department telling them to stop having church services in German.

The term isn't racist. It's xenophobic.

Imagine what would happen today if the federal government sent similar letters to all the little Catholic churches in South Texas telling them to stop having mass in Spanish.

Urban Ag said:

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I don't fault the FDR admin for internment of Japanese. We were in a war of national survival. Hard stop right there.

Germans and Italians were well entrenched in American society for much, much, longer. Germans almost back to the beginning. Italians since the mid 1850's. They integrated easily. Not true for the Japanese. And I say that as a fan of Japanese people and their culture (minus the weird stuff in the last few decades).

Again, it was about national survival and people need to view in that historical context and stop whining, especially considering the reality of the Pearl Harbour attack.

That said, I am 100% in line with the notion that FDR was likely our worst POTUS, if not, top three. Definite commie sympathizer. His policies entrenched us in the socialist light BS we have been fighting ever since. LBJ, Carter, Obama, and Biden, just made it all the more worse.

As a never ending student of history, I learned pretty early that crediting FDR with our victory in WWII was complete BS. American and British Generals won WWII. Churchill deserves credit. FDR was dying old sack socialist crap. Ike steered the Allies through that time, not FDR.

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FWIW, Ike liked FDR and his policies during the Depression.

Jabin said:

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Urban Ag said:

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I don't fault the FDR admin for internment of Japanese. We were in a war of national survival. Hard stop right there.

Germans and Italians were well entrenched in American society for much, much, longer. Germans almost back to the beginning. Italians since the mid 1850's. They integrated easily. Not true for the Japanese. And I say that as a fan of Japanese people and their culture (minus the weird stuff in the last few decades).

Again, it was about national survival and people need to view in that historical context and stop whining, especially considering the reality of the Pearl Harbour attack.

That said, I am 100% in line with the notion that FDR was likely our worst POTUS, if not, top three. Definite commie sympathizer. His policies entrenched us in the socialist light BS we have been fighting ever since. LBJ, Carter, Obama, and Biden, just made it all the more worse.

As a never ending student of history, I learned pretty early that crediting FDR with our victory in WWII was complete BS. American and British Generals won WWII. Churchill deserves credit. FDR was dying old sack socialist crap. Ike steered the Allies through that time, not FDR.

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FWIW, Ike liked FDR and his policies during the Depression.

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FWIW, Ike Eisenhower was no Mark Milley when it came to using military force against protesters.

https://veteransbreakfastclub.org/when-veterans-stormed-the-capital-the-march-of-the-bonus-army-of-1932-part-2/

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Army intelligence and FBI agents issued frightening reports to the White House that the Bonus Army was the vanguard of a revolutionary group harboring plans to take over Washington and overthrow the nation's government. MacArthur ordered soldiers stationed at nearby Fort Myers to ready themselves to fight a civil insurrection.

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