Trump Officially Sues Ann Seltzer and Des Moines Register for Election Interference

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will25u
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7:24a, 12/17/24
With his new settlement with ABC/George S., Trump is now suing Ann Seltzer and Des Moines Register for Election Interference.

Unlike the ABC lawsuit, this one seems a little out there. But I guess we will see.

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rocky the dog
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7:27a, 12/17/24
AG
Elections are when people find out what politicians stand for, and politicians find out what people will fall for.
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AgResearch
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7:28a, 12/17/24
AG
She admitted she's had the opportunity before in context of being bought off to fudge the numbers.

So it's not a big jump to assume she did it this time. We all knew the numbers weren't close to reality up here.
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SirDippinDots
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7:31a, 12/17/24
Even if they prove she knew the poll was wrong, and they probably can statistically, so what? How does that translate to a crime/liability. I am sure a fat , black New York DA could find one but I can't.
I wish a buck was still silver, it was back, when the country was strong.
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Gaeilge
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7:32a, 12/17/24
Problem will be showing damages considering Trump won Iowa by 13pts. Would he have won it by 14 or 15pts w/o the poll? Who knows. But he won the state, so not sure this will go anywhere.
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Quo Vadis?
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7:33a, 12/17/24
It's either gross malice or gross incompetence. I lean towards the latter but we will see.

Any competent pollster should have done a double take at seeing the numbers they were getting. Imagine someone getting a New Jersey Trump +13 poll. She went forth and published it like a stooge without doing her due diligence
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Houston Lee
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7:47a, 12/17/24
AG
The thing about political polls is there is no governing authority. There is nothing to hold any pollster accountable for getting a poll wrong. Polls have become a tool for promoting propaganda and they report the "results" as "NEWS". Maybe Trump can show the way to hit back at these "pollsters" in the pocketbook to start making them think twice and holding them a bit accountable. I doubt it though.
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General Jack D. Ripper
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7:48a, 12/17/24
It's as much election interference as that guy who retweeted a meme about the election text to vote. I believe he is still in prison
I wish I was a messenger, and all the news was good. Eddie V.
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gigemags-99
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In reply to SirDippinDots • 7:49a, 12/17/24
AG
SirDippinDots said:
Even if they prove she knew the poll was wrong, and they probably can statistically, so what? How does that translate to a crime? I am sure a fat , black New York DA could find one but I can't.


This is civil, not criminal. Moot point
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aggiehawg
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7:51a, 12/17/24
AG
Trump will have no shortage of expert pollsters to use as witnesses but there is the question of damages, as previously pointed out and I'm not sure a declaratory judgment really accomplishes anything. Her career is finished.

The Des Moines Register as the publisher does raise an interesting question however. Will have to read the complaint for the legal angle there.
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CheeseSndwch
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7:52a, 12/17/24
The Harris Campaign was throwing around a lot of money during the run up to the election, maybe it's something more nefarious than a left leaning bias.
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SirDippinDots
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In reply to gigemags-99 • 7:55a, 12/17/24
gigemags-99 said:
SirDippinDots said:
Even if they prove she knew the poll was wrong, and they probably can statistically, so what? How does that translate to a crime? I am sure a fat , black New York DA could find one but I can't.


This is civil, not criminal. Moot point


I changed to crime liability since the interference can be a crime but I would assume you would need to show some crime to get a civil penalty.

It's very strange but maybe he is trying to make an example. What she did was very dishonest but that is normal for the legacy propaganda media.
I wish a buck was still silver, it was back, when the country was strong.
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SwigAg11
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7:56a, 12/17/24
AG
Where I think fraud and interference come more into play is Selzer contacting the Harris campaign (and not the Trump campaign) ahead of releasing her poll to give them a heads up.

The Harris campaign then used that to time press releases and ads.
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nortex97
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7:58a, 12/17/24
AG
I imagine his real goal is discovery of any payments to her.

Democrats waged lawfare against him for going on 8 years now but especially the past 4 and now have to brace for impact. He's not running again and doesn't really care if he loses these, imho, he wants people to see the vengeance tour and hopefully it intimidates future Garland regime types of folks.
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Secolobo
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In reply to SirDippinDots • 8:09a, 12/17/24
AG
SirDippinDots said:
Even if they prove she knew the poll was wrong, and they probably can statistically, so what? How does that translate to a crime/liability. I am sure a fat , black New York DA could find one but I can't.
Kind of like overinflating the worth of one's property?
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Max Stonetrail
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8:10a, 12/17/24
Wasn't she supposed to be some expert polling person for decades??? I'm sorry, but if you are an expert, you know when numbers are off. I think it's obvious she did this with malice and intent. I guess we will see if they can discover and prove enough for a settlement.

I do like the approach by Trump. Might give some of these people pause in pulling shenanigans like this if they know they are going to have to defend a lawsuit.
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American Hardwood
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8:10a, 12/17/24
AG
When your side decides lawfare is a great idea, don't be surprised when you get more of it in return.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
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Just an Ag
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In reply to Houston Lee • 8:10a, 12/17/24
AG
Houston Lee said:
The thing about political polls is there is no governing authority. There is nothing to hold any pollster accountable for getting a poll wrong. Polls have become a tool for promoting propaganda and they report the "results" as "NEWS". Maybe Trump can show the way to hit back at these "pollsters" in the pocketbook to start making them think twice and holding them a bit accountable. I doubt it though.
I like how they are saying consumer fraud. News being a consumer item, and it's fraud to be "fake news?" Could this put a pause on maliciously false reporting of the "news?"
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Stinky T
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8:12a, 12/17/24
AG
I find it interesting that the Des Moines Register opted to not officially endorse a candidate for president for the first time in forever. However they chose to put out this, obviously crazy, poll just days before the election. I suspect there were people at that rag that were unhappy about the lack of endorsement that just couldn't keep their finger off the scale.
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doubledog
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8:12a, 12/17/24
Good, bring Ann Seltzer in and depose her. Force her to reveal her methodology and data.

This should be good.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Just an Ag • 8:20a, 12/17/24
AG
Quote:
I like how they are saying consumer fraud. News being a consumer item, and it's fraud to be "fake news?"
Why I said the part of the suit against the newspaper presents a different legal question. This one poll dominated the news cycle for days right before the election and was loudly repeated across all forms of media. And it was the newspaper that paid her for the poll. That's another angle.

Regular Americans had never heard of Ann Selzer until now.
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Fightin_Aggie
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In reply to rocky the dog • 8:21a, 12/17/24
AG
rocky the dog said:


Discovery will be a itch if they don't settle

I think her last poll was a 13 point swing from her prior poll two weeks before but I'm not sure. Would be interesting how she explains that.


Also explains why she came out of nowhere swinging the last few days in the media
The world needs mean tweets

My Pronouns Ultra and MAGA

Trump 2024
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SirDippinDots
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In reply to Secolobo • 8:25a, 12/17/24
Secolobo said:
SirDippinDots said:
Even if they prove she knew the poll was wrong, and they probably can statistically, so what? How does that translate to a crime/liability. I am sure a fat , black New York DA could find one but I can't.
Kind of like overinflating the worth of one's property?


Actually polling is a lot more scientific and easier to duplicate. Property values can very a lot especially when such properties are more unique.

My run of the mill house in Texas has a pretty tight value depending where it is in a run of the mill subdivisions.
I wish a buck was still silver, it was back, when the country was strong.
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aezmvp
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8:38a, 12/17/24
Eh will never get to deposition. Nuisance suit. I get it but not a fan.
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American Hardwood
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In reply to SirDippinDots • 8:44a, 12/17/24
AG
I think you missed the reference.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
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SA68AG
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8:51a, 12/17/24
AG
Waste of time.
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Ag87H2O
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:55a, 12/17/24
AG
nortex97 said:
I imagine his real goal is discovery of any payments to her.

Democrats waged lawfare against him for going on 8 years now but especially the past 4 and now have to brace for impact. He's not running again and doesn't really care if he loses these, imho, he wants people to see the vengeance tour and hopefully it intimidates future Garland regime types of folks.
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FTAG 2000
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9:21a, 12/17/24
AG
This is about discovery.
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Teslag
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 9:22a, 12/17/24
AG
FTAG 2000 said:
This is about discovery.

Won't even get that far
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Kansas Kid
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9:27a, 12/17/24
If he wins on this, does Hillary sue all the pollsters that were way off in 2016.
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dmart90
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9:27a, 12/17/24
AG
Yeah. This is stupid. Move on, Trump.
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SwigAg11
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In reply to Teslag • 9:35a, 12/17/24
AG
Teslag said:
FTAG 2000 said:
This is about discovery.

Won't even get that far

We'll see. Everyone said the ABC suit wouldn't get there, and look how that ended.
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Teslag
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In reply to SwigAg11 • 9:40a, 12/17/24
AG
Ya, it ended without discovery
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CampSkunk
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9:41a, 12/17/24
AG
Jeff Blehar provided the most persuasive speculation/explanation I have seen - it was "intentional" only in the sense that Selzer refused to adjust her methodology despite a known flaw - it oversampled women. Selzer was at one time one of most accurate pollsters, but since about 2016 she hasn't been as accurate. Her refusal to adjust is gross incompetence.
Quote:
Because we cannot know for sure, it's time for some mild speculation. Selzer famously refuses to adjust or weight her polling numbers, instead trusting in her (up until now) proven ability to get the proper regional and demographic spread. This task has traditionally been easier in Iowa than most states, simply because of its overwhelming racial homogeneity. But one is tempted to wonder whether the methods Selzer made her name by using are of less value in an era of both extreme polarization as well as a special problem unique to our present culture that I like to call the "Revenge of the Karens" a severe overresponse from progressive women to polling phone calls, because they (disproportionately relative to the rest of the American population) feel self-actualized by registering their opinion, whether to a machine or especially to a live human being. When the Des Moines Register wrote up Selzer's final shock 4744 Harris poll at the beginning of November, they cited an apparent surge of female support that had put her over the top.

This was entirely illusory; note that Harris ended up with just 42.7 percent of the vote. The only explanation for the wild miss is a disproportionate female over-response: Understand that because of Selzer's methodology, this is not an intentional oversampling or overweighting of polled women, but rather their natural response rate. That suggests any number of sociological phenomena this column is ill-equpped to begin unpacking here but that are worth pondering in silence. In the meantime, even as I question whether Selzer's classic methodology remains viable in a rapidly changing era, it's worth saluting one of the great, and fearlessly individualistic, pollsters of the modern era. Give Ann Selzer her due in retirement.
Give Iowa Pollster Ann Selzer Her Due in Retirement
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Teslag • 9:45a, 12/17/24
AG
Teslag said:
Ya, it ended without discovery
The ABC news case ended because of impending discovery.
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