bmks270 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Not to hijack, but Japan is disappearing. They will have half the population they have now in the year 2100, around 65 million, with about half of that being 65 and older. That is a linear decline over time, about a 6.5% reduction each decade. Many of these Japanese companies, like Nissan, will disappear also. It's a population collapse.

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Japans GDP per capita is also lower than Mississippi, which is the lowest of the 50 states. Saw this stat recently and it surprised me.

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Damn, the is surprising.

It makes sense though. I mean, when an island focuses on living solely like an island, it's kind of inevitable.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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Half ton trucks that are $80-$100k offset stupid money losers like the electric "Mustang". Unfortunately, there is a limited number of people who can afford them, and even fewer who will voluntarily pay those inflated prices.

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These trucks are priced like that because people will pay it. It's that simple. There's plenty of new trucks in the $50k range. I tried to buy a mid size Canyon Denali recently. They didnt want to budge on the $52k msrp. And both trucks were gone two days after they arrived on the lot.

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In 2004, I bought a brand new extended cab Ford F150 XLT for $19.5k. Pricing the same vehicle on their site today, it's now $50k… With a smaller eco boosted engine.

$50k for a middle of the road, two wheel drive truck is too much.

Yesterday said:

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wts2014 said:

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Absolutely makes sense. Knowing practically nothing about cars and the industry a couple months ago to knowing 2% now, I'm sure what I see will change over time.

One thing that doesn't appear to be changing is that car engineers must really like their jobs and as such do some pretty stupid things to ensure they're still needed

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No doubt. It's tradition for mechanics to ***** about engineers. And there's usually good evidence for it.

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My engineer friend agrees. He says the ones who can't get hired to design anything else get hired to design cars. And it shows.

But that smaller engine is likely producing a lot more torque and power. For example, a 1995 F-350 V8 7.3 liter diesel produced 425 pounds of torque and 210 horsepower. The mid size Colorado I just bought has a 2.7 liter 4 cylinder that produces 310 horsepower and 430 pounds of torque.

Teslag said:

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But that smaller engine is likely producing a lot more torque and power. For example, a 1995 F-350 V8 7.3 liter diesel produced 425 pounds of torque and 210 horsepower. The mid size Colorado I just bought has a 2.7 liter 4 cylinder that produces 310 horsepower and 430 pounds of torque.

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When you spend $1.5k to rebuild your turbo like I have, that slight bump in horsepower just doesn't seem to matter anymore.

A 100hp bump is slight? And I'd definitely pay $1.5k for that a bump like that. And turbos have come a loooooooong way.

No Spin Ag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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100% agree on that one. I think there big makers are capable of producing vehicles that meet the value/quality break point, but the .government has got to get out of it.

I hate that a few states like California are going to be the biggest hurdle to that, but...

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The auto companies already had plenty of vehicles that met the value/quality break point. They have chosen to stop making those vehicles because they can make greater profits on higher-priced vehicles.

Where do you see the government being involved in the auto maker's decision to focus solely on higher-priced vehicles?

Forgive if I'm not catching what you're saying; it's been a hectic morning already.

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Cafe standards and the push towards EV bs have affected the decision making and marketing.

If govt can get out of the way of them actually making small, cheap cars( 1/4ton/"mini" trucks again for example), it would help by not forcing them to focus on fuel mileage and ridiculous rule making.

The move into "luxury" has also failed, and they will eventually admit to it. It's too late to save the 25 year model, but 26 and 27 should see an interesting shift towards normalcy.

Where is the proof of demand for these pieces of *****

Teslag said:

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Where is the proof of demand for these pieces of *****

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What smaller trucks and cheaper cars?

Have you looked at resale on older vehicles and the desperate push to keep them on the road?

Looked at falling profits and flailing car sales numbers since the shift into "luxury"?

Here's a hint, we're moving into an extremely recessionary economy and the worst jobs market in decades... the need/demand for cheap and reliable vs. "Luxury" is just going to accelerate.

When the EV tax credits go away, and the average "consumer" figures out how expensive batteries are( not to mention ecologically destructive), that side is going to fall flat just as hard.

Except that GM's sales of EV's are surging and they are even nearing profitability on them.

Everyone has their own priorities. Specifically for my wife's vehicle where the turbo busted…

1. Reliability
2. Price
3. Power

MAGA

Sales are surging with or without subsidies? Are they profitable with the cost of replacement batteries under warranty factored in? What's resale like? What's longevity like.

When cost of ownership, warranty work, and a loss of subsidy/incentives all stack up, any make believe viability on mass production EVs will be shown for what it is!

Reading up on Stellantis and they don't seem much better than Nissan right now. Teveras has agreed to retire in 2026 after pretty much everyone down to the dealer level wants him out. He's cut too much and Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler have the highest inventory on hand metric in the industry with cars sitting well over 100 days.

That company is a ****show right now.

Ag_of_08 said:

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Sales are surging with or without subsidies? Are they profitable with the cost of replacement batteries under warranty factored in? What's resale like? What's longevity like.

When cost of ownership, warranty work, and a loss of subsidy/incentives all stack up, any make believe viability on mass production EVs will be shown for what it is!

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The cost of ownership is extremely cheap. In almost 3 years the only maintenance I've done is wiper fluid. That's it. The battery will last to 300,000 to 500,000 miles but I'll get rid of it way before then.

Teslag said:

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Except that GM's sales of EV's are surging and they are even nearing profitability on them.

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And the EV credits are about to evaporate. Good luck on profitability when CAFE standards are reversed to not kill ICE in preference for EVs. Whatever margin advantage EV were enjoying are about to be changed.

Standard NA vehicles are about to get a boost which should drive costs down.

Teslag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Sales are surging with or without subsidies? Are they profitable with the cost of replacement batteries under warranty factored in? What's resale like? What's longevity like.

When cost of ownership, warranty work, and a loss of subsidy/incentives all stack up, any make believe viability on mass production EVs will be shown for what it is!

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The cost of ownership is extremely cheap. In almost 3 years the only maintenance I've done is wiper fluid. That's it. The battery will last to 300,000 to 500,000 miles but I'll get rid of it way before then.

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Holy carp, I didn't realize they'd last that long.

So, one could buy one of those as their "retirement" (last vehicle to buy) vehicle and never have to worry about maintenance? That's one hell of a selling point.

No Spin Ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Sales are surging with or without subsidies? Are they profitable with the cost of replacement batteries under warranty factored in? What's resale like? What's longevity like.

When cost of ownership, warranty work, and a loss of subsidy/incentives all stack up, any make believe viability on mass production EVs will be shown for what it is!

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The cost of ownership is extremely cheap. In almost 3 years the only maintenance I've done is wiper fluid. That's it. The battery will last to 300,000 to 500,000 miles but I'll get rid of it way before then.

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Holy carp, I didn't realize they'd last that long.

So, one could buy one of those as their "retirement" (last vehicle to buy) vehicle and never have to worry about maintenance? That's one hell of a selling point.

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Except it's not exactly true.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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Teslag said:

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Except that GM's sales of EV's are surging and they are even nearing profitability on them.

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And the EV credits are about to evaporate. Good luck on profitability when CAFE standards are reversed to not kill ICE in preference for EVs. Whatever margin advantage EV were enjoying are about to be changed.

Standard NA vehicles are about to get a boost which should drive costs down.

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Tesla had record sales and profitability without tax credits. Several of GM's EV's don't have them now. People simply want those cars regardless of a piddly $7500 or less tax credit.

Ag_of_08 said:

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Teslag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Sales are surging with or without subsidies? Are they profitable with the cost of replacement batteries under warranty factored in? What's resale like? What's longevity like.

When cost of ownership, warranty work, and a loss of subsidy/incentives all stack up, any make believe viability on mass production EVs will be shown for what it is!

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The cost of ownership is extremely cheap. In almost 3 years the only maintenance I've done is wiper fluid. That's it. The battery will last to 300,000 to 500,000 miles but I'll get rid of it way before then.

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Your battery is not lasting 300-500k miles. That's ...hilarious to contemplate.

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Yes, it is.

No Spin Ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Sales are surging with or without subsidies? Are they profitable with the cost of replacement batteries under warranty factored in? What's resale like? What's longevity like.

When cost of ownership, warranty work, and a loss of subsidy/incentives all stack up, any make believe viability on mass production EVs will be shown for what it is!

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The cost of ownership is extremely cheap. In almost 3 years the only maintenance I've done is wiper fluid. That's it. The battery will last to 300,000 to 500,000 miles but I'll get rid of it way before then.

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Holy carp, I didn't realize they'd last that long.

So, one could buy one of those as their "retirement" (last vehicle to buy) vehicle and never have to worry about maintenance? That's one hell of a selling point.

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Yes, there are older Teslas hitting the 400,000 mark.

eric76 said:

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I suspect my current car will last me a long time at this rate.

It's a 2015 Ford Taurus that bought used in January of 2017 with approximately 22,000 miles on it. It now has something like 65,000 to 70,000 miles on it since I don't drive much.

In most months, my number one expense on it is insurance.

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Beware of the internal water pump in Ford's traverse-mounted 3.5 L engine.

It was definitely not one of Ford's 'better ideas'.

When the impeller seal starts to fail (and it will), coolant goes into the crankcase and you can absolutely ruin the engine. All I can say is keep an eye on both your coolant levels and your oil levels.

If you can detect any change in either, it might be good to investigate and then shut it down and get the water pump replaced if you've got coolant in the oil. If you wait, you may be on the hook for a whole new engine.

BTW, it's a very expensive repair -- between $1K and $2K.

I bled Ford blue for most of my life, but when I have to buy my wife a 'new' car I'll take a hard look at Toyota, although the things I'm reading here make it sound like the 'legendary' Toyota reliability may be taking a hit.

aezmvp said:

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One of the reasons their birth rate has fallen. Japan, Korea and China have horrific workplace cultures even outside so called Black companies. The leadership in all three countries are examining some pretty wild ideas to fix it. They're mild now but it's escalating and their pop culture is repleate with examples of this.

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You mean they actually value showing up to work? The reason their birthrates are going down is because there is a decline in married couples, and more youth are openly admitting to not wanting kids. Mix in stagnant wages and a questionable job market dont help. I blame social media, porn, and selfishness.

Jeeper79 said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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Half ton trucks that are $80-$100k offset stupid money losers like the electric "Mustang". Unfortunately, there is a limited number of people who can afford them, and even fewer who will voluntarily pay those inflated prices.

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These trucks are priced like that because people will pay it. It's that simple. There's plenty of new trucks in the $50k range. I tried to buy a mid size Canyon Denali recently. They didnt want to budge on the $52k msrp. And both trucks were gone two days after they arrived on the lot.

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In 2004, I bought a brand new extended cab Ford F150 XLT for $19.5k. Pricing the same vehicle on their site today, it's now $50k… With a smaller eco boosted engine.

$50k for a middle of the road, two wheel drive truck is too much.

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Username does not check out.

Yesterday said:

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wts2014 said:

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Been working at a friend's car shop for the time being while job searching. General consensus among mechanics is that everything is a piece of junk. Then again, these guys only see broken cars every day.

General summary of brands I have gathered in 2.5 months are:

Ford brands are the worst. F150s keep the shop in business, everything else is a bonus.

GM aren't far ahead of Ford, but tend to have known issues that are easier to fix.

Chrysler does stupid stuff engineering wise but haven't seen quite as many of these.

Nissan has mostly good engines but really stupid engineers. 1 mechanic would prefer every Nissan that comes in be scrapped.

Toyota most positively viewed followed by Honda. Have also seen these brands the least, along with Hyundai and Kia

Essentially every brand seems designed to keep maintenance and repair money flowing at this point so no matter what you pick, be ready for it to break.

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Ford definitely has its issues but when they sell almost 4X as much as Chevy, you're going to see them 4X as much in the shop.

When you sell almost a million vans and trucks a year, you're going to hear of horror stories. Even if it's less than 1/2 of a percent. That's 5000 horror stories floating around per year and more when you compound the years.

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This.

Trajan88 said:

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Re: "no doubt. It's tradition for mechanics to ***** about engineers. And there's usually good evidence for it."

Went down the rabbit hole of high-end German auto's getting mechanical servicing.

i.e. oil change.

So complicated / labor intensive with the need for specialized tools to remove bits and pieces to get to the drain plug and to change out the filter

It becomes obvious why a "simple" oil change in those autos is $$$s

In-sane.

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Mom's SO owns a Panamera and they tried to quote him
$2K for an oil change and some other ancillary "service." The industry has gone absolutely insane. I'd almost welcome BYD building plants in the U.S. to cripple the insane management/executive suites running Western car companies.

It's a Porsche. High maintenance costs have always been a part of owning one.

We've had great luck with Toyotas in our family across a number of cars. Extremely reliable.

I'm at least a couple years out from replacing my V8 F-150 and just recently started checking out the Tundras because of our success with Toyota. Disappointed to see they only have the V6 turbos and no longer offer the V8. I had two of the V6 turbos in prior F-150s. A lot of things to like about it, but it is a more complicated engine and I'm aware of the issues others have experienced with them. I'm leery of the Tundra turbo also with the complaints I'm seeing about them.

My current V8 runs like a charm and is just a simpler engine. Combined with the 10 speed transmission and tow-haul feature, it's got plenty of pulling power for what I occasionally tow. I don't need a 3/4 ton truck and bigger engine.

I've still got time to collect more data points and see what's the best option for me.

I never predict bankruptcies for companies like this, as their ability to raise operating cash etc. really is outside my lane (Tokyo may not let them go bankrupt for instance). I don't see them making it as an independent auto company though. With Japan's shrinking population they really need some consolidation among their auto mfg's, imho. Mazda however seems to be doing great.

MemphisAg1 said:

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We've had great luck with Toyotas in our family across a number of cars. Extremely reliable.

I'm at least a couple years out from replacing my V8 F-150 and just recently started checking out the Tundras because of our success with Toyota. Disappointed to see they only have the V6 turbos and no longer offer the V8. I had two of the V6 turbos in prior F-150s. A lot of things to like about it, but it is a more complicated engine and I'm aware of the issues others have experienced with them. I'm leery of the Tundra turbo also with the complaints I'm seeing about them.

My current V8 runs like a charm and is just a simpler engine. Combined with the 10 speed transmission and tow-haul feature, it's got plenty of pulling power for what I occasionally tow. I don't need a 3/4 ton truck and bigger engine.

I've still got time to collect more data points and see what's the best option for me.

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Toyota is neutering all of their cars. I bought a new 2024 4Runner a few months ago because the 2025s will have the 4 cylinder turbo. Same thing the 2024 Tacomas have. Nobody asked for this or wanted it. I hope they change course and go back to a V6 in a few years. I will never buy a ****ing 4 cylinder SUV or truck.

People asked for more power and torque. They got it.

Funny that Honda is almost completely absent from this topic. NA engines, I love my 2017 V6 pilot with a 6 speed. No CVT, current models have a 10 speed.

MemphisAg1 said:

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We've had great luck with Toyotas in our family across a number of cars. Extremely reliable.

I'm at least a couple years out from replacing my V8 F-150 and just recently started checking out the Tundras because of our success with Toyota. Disappointed to see they only have the V6 turbos and no longer offer the V8. I had two of the V6 turbos in prior F-150s. A lot of things to like about it, but it is a more complicated engine and I'm aware of the issues others have experienced with them. I'm leery of the Tundra turbo also with the complaints I'm seeing about them.

My current V8 runs like a charm and is just a simpler engine. Combined with the 10 speed transmission and tow-haul feature, it's got plenty of pulling power for what I occasionally tow. I don't need a 3/4 ton truck and bigger engine.

I've still got time to collect more data points and see what's the best option for me.

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I'm in a similar situation. Had great luck with Toyotas and honestly Nissan's in the past as well as Honda's. Currently have a 2020 Hyundai Pallisade that is just an incredible vehicle. Probably the best value car I've ever had. It's loaded to the brim and was still under $50k and it is simply a much better vehicle than the Lexus or Mercedes or others that were $30k more. 65k miles on it and it's still like new.

I've got 2 F-150s, a 2013 and a 2015 both with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Both have turned in to regular mechanical issues the last couple years after they hit about 130k. Getting pretty tired of it. Also thinking I want a Tundra for my next one which is getting closer. Debating on trying to find a gently treated '21 with the old V-8 or seeing if I can get a deal I can't refuse on a new one.

I put a very high value on reliability in my cars.

If you want reliability then grab a Titan before they are gone. Everything else, including the Tundra is the same as far as reliability goes.