45-70Ag said:

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U.S. President Joe Biden has approved the transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines to Ukraine, revoking a Ban set by the Obama Administration; with the Ukrainian Government said to have given assurances that they will not use them in Populated Areas. pic.twitter.com/QCAcgG6Tfq

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) November 20, 2024

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So it 1000 days now since the invasion and we got people doing trench warfare in Europe, launching long range missiles at each other, and now mining large areas of land.

Making sure we fully up to speed with this.

Mines aren't new at all in this war

dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

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To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

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To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

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Russia needs to stop attacking for the killing to stop. Looks like they will need to be compelled to stop.

We give or sell weapons to half the world. Surely you aren't naive enough to think they will never be used or that we're responsible for how they're used?

GAC06 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

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To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

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Russia needs to stop attacking for the killing to stop. Looks like they will need to be compelled to stop.

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And Putin has already publicly announced he is willing to listen to Trumps plan and has confidence they can end the war. And two months from that reality we are trying to escalate. Again does that seem wise?

Maybe the wise thing would be to negotiate another cease fire until Trump assumes office. No one has to give up anything or concede anything until Trump can pitch his plan.

But sadly no. Again it's not Putin that is cause for concern. It's the western leaders.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

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To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

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Is Russia, in your opinion, proactively concerned with ending the war and avoiding killing more people? Russia sought out this war purposefully and seems content to send as many members of its lower classes to the afterlife as necessary in pursuit of victory. Why is it that you find the US and Europe so responsible yet treat Russia as almost a victim of circumstance?

Yukon Cornelius said:

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GAC06 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

---

To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

---

Russia needs to stop attacking for the killing to stop. Looks like they will need to be compelled to stop.

---

And Putin has already publicly announced he is willing to listen to Trumps plan and has confidence they can end the war. And two months from that reality we are trying to escalate. Again does that seem wise?

Maybe the wise thing would be to negotiate another cease fire until Trump assumes office. No one has to give up anything or concede anything until Trump can pitch his plan.

But sadly no. Again it's not Putin that is cause for concern. It's the western leaders.

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Has Putin offered a ceasefire? Has Putin stopped attacking? Has Putin stopped trying to achieve gains in Ukraine? Nothing Putin does is escalatory yet anything Ukraine does (to include things that Russia has been doing for the entirety of the conflict) is escalatory. The double standard is curious.

Rossticus said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

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To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

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Is Russia, in your opinion, proactively concerned with ending the war and avoiding killing more people? Russia sought out this war purposefully and seems content to send as many of its lower classes to the afterlife in pursuit of victory. Why is it that you find the US and Europe so responsible yet treat Russia as almost a victim of circumstance?

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I 100% agree with your assessment of what Russia is doing. Playing the victim to take Ukraine.

But at the same time that can be true and we can seek other means to end the war other than escalation.

And remeber this isn't 2 years into Biden's term. We are 2 months from Trump taking office. Which Putin has publicly said he will listen to Trumps plan to end the war.

Does it not make sense to wait two months before we start killing more people? It's two months.

Neither side has any incentive to take a 2 month break. In fact, they have quite the opposite incentive.

If either side can gain some great momentum in the next two months, it's a stronger position from which to negotiate when trump takes office.

Yes he has. But whether he has or has not isn't tbe point. The point is we could be suggesting a ceasefire. We haven't suggested one.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Yes he has. But whether he has or has not isn't tbe point. The point is we could be suggesting a ceasefire. We haven't suggested one.

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this creates the envoronment for a cease fire

hey putin remember how ukraine slaughtered your troops with our weapons? knock it off or more of your troops die

right now there is no incentive for putin and his followers to stop the war

Yukon Cornelius said:

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GAC06 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

---

To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

---

Russia needs to stop attacking for the killing to stop. Looks like they will need to be compelled to stop.

---

And Putin has already publicly announced he is willing to listen to Trumps plan and has confidence they can end the war. And two months from that reality we are trying to escalate. Again does that seem wise?

Maybe the wise thing would be to negotiate another cease fire until Trump assumes office. No one has to give up anything or concede anything until Trump can pitch his plan.

But sadly no. Again it's not Putin that is cause for concern. It's the western leaders.

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Cool let's get a ceasefire. Is Putin interested? Nah.

Have we asked him?

You didn't state that. You replied to my post about wanting to find another solution other than killing people. That's why I asked to clarify because based on the post of mine you responded to it seemed that was your take.

And as for my original question. Would US troops be used to launch the missiles into Russia? Because If so it is an act of war unilaterally decided by the President. Who is two months from leaving office…

Probably

Yukon Cornelius said:

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.

And as for my original question. Would US troops be used to launch the missiles into Russia? Because If so it is an act of war unilaterally decided by the President. Who is two months from leaving office…

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ukraine has already launched the misssiles into russia without us troops gotta read the news

this excalation you claim is because yall brought in north koreas to fight in ukraine

I haven't seen any reports of that in the last year and a half. I hope we have but there is no evidence of it.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I haven't seen any reports of that in the last year and a half. I hope we have but there is no evidence of it.

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putin just brought in north koreans to fight

why doesnt he just stop the fighting and go back to russia

why does he keep escalating the fight

Old Army Ghost said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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.

And as for my original question. Would US troops be used to launch the missiles into Russia? Because If so it is an act of war unilaterally decided by the President. Who is two months from leaving office…

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ukraine has already launched the misssiles into russia without us troops gotta read the news

this excalation you claim is because yall brought in north koreas to fight in ukraine

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My father died in service to this country. Something I live with every single day. Please stop insulting me and insinuating I am for Russia or Putin or his my boy or whatever insult you use. I am on America's side and I know the cost of war. I know what it's like to be a child and not know your father while all your peers do.

I am for America not to so gleefully enter another war after decade and decade of war.

I am for America. Not Russia. Please debate my ideas without your insults

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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.

And as for my original question. Would US troops be used to launch the missiles into Russia? Because If so it is an act of war unilaterally decided by the President. Who is two months from leaving office…

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ukraine has already launched the misssiles into russia without us troops gotta read the news

this excalation you claim is because yall brought in north koreas to fight in ukraine

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My father died in service to this country. Something I live with every single day. Please stop insulting me and insinuating I am for Russia or Putin or his my boy or whatever insult you use. I am on America's side and I know the cost of war. I know what it's like to be a child and not know your father while all your peers do.

I am for America not to so gleefully enter another war after decade and decade of war.

I am for America. Not Russia. Please debate my ideas without your insults

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ok here is the idea

putin goes home and stops invading his neighbors or we allow his neighbors to defend themselves by attacking him back

why side with putin in this? why be against self defense?

Again I'm not siding with Putin. Nor have I any issue with anyone defending themselves. Nor do Inhave issues with Ukraine launching attacks into Russia. Heck of Ukraine was able to capture Moscow and end the war I would be thrilled.

What I am against is a literally mentally handicapped man escalating a war with Us assets and personnel two months from leaving office. Especially when the new president has a plan and all parties have publicly stated they are willing to hear his resolution to end the war.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Again I'm not siding with Putin. Nor have I any issue with anyone defending themselves. Nor do Inhave issues with Ukraine launching attacks into Russia. Heck of Ukraine was able to capture Moscow and end the war I would be thrilled.

What I am against is a literally mentally handicapped man escalating a war with Us assets and personnel two months from leaving office. Especially when the new president has a plan and all parties have publicly stated they are willing to hear his resolution to end the war.

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ah see you negotiate from power not weakness and ukraine attacking inside russia is a position of power
this will make it better for trump to put putin in his place

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Again I'm not siding with Putin. Nor have I any issue with anyone defending themselves. Nor do Inhave issues with Ukraine launching attacks into Russia. Heck of Ukraine was able to capture Moscow and end the war I would be thrilled.

What I am against is a literally mentally handicapped man escalating a war with Us assets and personnel two months from leaving office. Especially when the new president has a plan and all parties have publicly stated they are willing to hear his resolution to end the war.

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Well this is the root of the argument. I don't see it as a massive escalation and I am not the only one. I just don't. Certainly not an act of war. And you do. And we are all arguing past each other in spite of that. So it's an agree to disagree moment for me at this point.

Also, I am sorry to hear about your father. My condolences to you and yours.

I very much hope you are right and in two months everyone can bump this thread and laugh at me.

And thank you

Putin has already definitively used WMDs on 3 occasions. He used Novichoks to attempt to assassinate Sergei Skripal, and then again on Navalny. His troops have been using chemical weapons such as chloropicrin for months. Each time the international community has done nothing to attempt to curtail him. His change in Russian nuclear strategy is another step along the same continuum. To give in now and withdraw permission to use US missiles on Russian targets would simply embolden him to become more profligate in both his threats and employment of WMDs.

I think many of us don't consider it an escalation.

Russia has been doing this since day 1.

Every weapons system we have provided met the same response- it's an escalation that might lead to nuclear war.

Himars
Western tanks
F16s
Now atacms.

We haven't escalated anything. Id spin it more as an equaling.

Theres 4 routes to get to less killing

1. Stop giving any weapons or any assistance and let Russia take ukriane (this might to less killingnfrom war...but Russia has a history in ukriane. Just saying)
2. Make a deal, which there still doesn't seem much of an appetite for where it matters. Maybe trump will actually be able to make that happen, but, I have my doubts Putin will settle for anything other than an overly bad deal for ukriane and the west
3. Make a real escalation like putting nato boots on the ground.
4 . Give ukriane any and all weapons, money, Intel and whatever else they ask for and let them go to town. I dont think this would actually work though as I'm not sure the ukes have the actual bodies to push forward and maintain any gains.

So, it's quagmire until further notice. There's no reason, especially for Russia, to seek a stalemate at least until trump takes office. They are making gains and the more they make, the stronger position they are in to make demands. We already know they do not care about loss of life, theirs, the ukes or civilians.

This thread is pretty damn terrifying. Bunch of damn keyboard warrior death lovers.

Quote:

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You're a death-lover. Some sorry son of a ***** has got you convinced that dying for a cause is oh, so romantic. Well, that's the worst kind of all the kinds of bull**** there is!"

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We inching closer to the beginning of Terminator.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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We inching closer to the beginning of Terminator.

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That was a great movie and great intro

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I'm not trying to gotcha Biden. But his recent decision is another provocation. Which Putin has said he will respond by using nuclear weapons.

Congress requiring to declare war was suppose to prevent a single person from escalating the entire country into a war.

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Congress is, collectively, a bunch of pork-sucking namby-pamby opportunists who have been steadily washing their hands of the People's power to legislate and turning it over to the Executive branch for a hundred years. I suspect Congress members love the expanding powers of the Presidency because then it gives them infinite reelection campaign fodder/clickbait/soundbytes. They could pass legislation to fix almost all the **** we've suffered under for the past 100 years, but if they fixed the problems then why would we need to re-elect them?

Yukon Cornelius said:

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How is it Biden can unilaterally make a ROE change with our weapons that is an act of war against another sovereign nuclear power without approval of congress!

This is by all means a declaration of war against Russia. Yet no one seems to even care and Putin is threatening to start nuking western nations.

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Huh?

That is hardly a declaration of war. We have gone far past that over and over again for years.

As far as Putin and his nuclear weapons, it remains to be seen whether or not Russia's nuclear weapons continue to pose any kind of threat to us.

Our yearly expenditures to maintain our nuclear stockpiles are not much less than Russia's entire military expenses. Plus, their oligarchs are siphoning as much of that money as they can into their own pockets.

For Russia to launch a first strike on us, they would have to hit us really hard and accurately, It wouldn't be enough to launch a couple of hundred weapons and hope that they explode. They would need to knock out as much of our ability to respond to the strike as they could. Even then, if we launch missiles on warning, then theirs would arrive too late to knock them out.

If they launch on us, you can bet your ass that we would do overwhelmingly massive damage to their country. It would be a losing proposition for them and they know it. It is clear why they threaten us to get their way, but it is far from certain that they could actually hit us with an effective first strike.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I'm not trying to gotcha Biden. But his recent decision is another provocation. Which Putin has said he will respond by using nuclear weapons.

Congress requiring to declare war was suppose to prevent a single person from escalating the entire country into a war.

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Putin likes to make nuclear threats and he expects us to bow down and kiss his ass in a panic.