Teslag said:

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I think the importing of North Korean troops to fight Ukrainians was a bridge too far for the US and Europe. We make so much of our escalation but look the other way at Russia's.

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I'm not trying to be a jerk on this. I just think this frog in boiling water is getting out of control as there just seems to be a reaction from the US vs actually taking action that will end this never-ending war.

I reject the premise this is an escalation

This Ukraine has escalated every single day for the past 1000-days.

At no point has anyone said oh great that looks like a step in the right direction.

It's been constant escalation day after day.

Now we got 61-days until a regime change in the US and are white knuckling this mfer.

Wild times.

What should have Ukraine done day 1?

Who?mikejones! said:

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What should have Ukraine done day 1?

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Clearly anything other than giving up and surrendering is escalation. Do you even peace bro?

Russia was trying to conduct a mostly peaceful invasion and Ukraine made it all violent by fighting back.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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dmart90 said:

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You appear to be on an island here.

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To clarify your opinion is to kill more people vs exploring other options to end the war?

If wanting the leaders of the US and Europe try to end the war without killing more people puts me on an island so be it.

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What options to end the war should there be? Ukraine cedes their territory to Russian aggression and is good with it? Because Putin ain't pulling back. The biggest mistake the world made with this whole fiasco was not going after Putin with everything it had as soon as the first Russian boot hit Ukrainian soil.

Been making the same argument for 3-years and you've heard it already, so I'll let the gif do the work now.

So what you're saying is that you feel countries being allowed to request, and subsequently being allowed to join NATO, presents an ever escalatory threat that Russia will be invaded by them. Interesting.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Been making the same argument for 3-years and you've heard it already, so I'll let the gif do the work now.

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I wonder why so many of those countries would want to join a defensive alliance.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Been making the same argument for 3-years and you've heard it already, so I'll let the gif do the work now.

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Do you have a gif that shows two divisions at the Romanian/Ukrainian border?

No , anyone can search all the units deployed to Romania. That's a known fact.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Been making the same argument for 3-years and you've heard it already, so I'll let the gif do the work now.

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I wonder why so many of those countries would want to join a defensive alliance.

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The post-WW2 'defensive pact' that started WW3.

This is the same as sitting in the backseat, punching your sibling in the face with their own hand and saying 'stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.'

Yes, been saying this for 3-years.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Been making the same argument for 3-years and you've heard it already, so I'll let the gif do the work now.

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I wonder why so many of those countries would want to join a defensive alliance.

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The post-WW2 'defensive pact' that started WW3.

This is the same as sitting in the backseat, punching your sibling in the face with their own hand and saying 'stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.'

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Ah we're back to the fake WW3 claims. And no, a defensive pact is nothing like punching anyone. Russia has never been attacked (until Ukraine decided to fight back), and they've certainly never been attacked by a NATO country.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Yes, been saying this for 3-years.

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So removing Russia's ability to launch more unprovoked invasions of other countries is the same as attacking them?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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No , anyone can search all the units deployed to Romania. That's a known fact.

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Should be easy to back up your claim then, right?

Hopefully this impending nuclear war to be started by Putin will not happen until after the Nov. 30th game versus the horns. Cause I got tickets and am really looking forward to it.

Teslag said:

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The idea that a country is "escalating" a war while being invaded by another country is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this board.

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When you say "a country" is escalating, it's not "a country,"

"A country" is another word for the US.

We do the same thing with it comes to Iran.

"The Houthi's did this" ... "the Houthi's did that"

It's not the 'Houthis,' what they really mean is Iran (and Russia), but it sounds much better to envision tusken raiders launching cruise missiles out of caves and somehow hijacking and destroying tankers with wooden dhows.

So there is no 'a country.'

GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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No , anyone can search all the units deployed to Romania. That's a known fact.

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Should be easy to back up your claim then, right?

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You trying to get me to search units deployed to Romania for you?

I'd like you to attempt to back up your false claim

What escalation? Please, write it in crayon.

How is this an escalation? Detail it. You keep saying this in an elscalation worthy of a nuclear response, or that's your implication anyway.

How so? How does this move escalate beyond what the Russians are already doing? Or is simply meeting like for like too escalatory?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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No , anyone can search all the units deployed to Romania. That's a known fact.

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Should be easy to back up your claim then, right?

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You trying to get me to search units deployed to Romania for you?

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Yes. And where. This should be good.

Is google down? Why is a simple search taking so long?

Why you struggling with the concept that we running a proxy war with Russia out of Romania and have units from all three branches deployed all over the country?

Is it because we don't see them huddled in a hooch waiving at the camera during NFL games?

Where is the disconnect?

The disconnect is that we've been increasing our presence in Romania long before the current 2022 Ukraine war started. In fact, it started significantly under Trump's presidency. Romania is a member of NATO and they want us to be a larger presence in their country, and that was true regardless of what's happening in Ukraine. And it aligns with our now 15 year old significant reduction in Germany for EUCOM forces.

We been arguing about the expansion of NATO and ultimate escalation of a conflict with Russia for 3-years now. And we've done so to the point where a number of posters get immediately booted off threads discussing this. So I ain't rearguing this again. Nothing has changed. Time to cal a spade a spade and stop the soft pedaling and trickle truth.

From 1991 to present the US methodically expanded NATO up to Russia's doorstep.

The west thought that since they won Cold War 1.0 it was a free-for-all and they could ignore Russia's sphere of influence.

Over the past 25-years the west has been using Ukraine as a playground for money laundering and other activity in order to skirt laws in the US and EU. This is a well known fact, especially in banking and other industries.

The US interfered with Ukraine in 2014 and since that time has squandered every opportunity to deescalate the situation, culminating with Kamala's disastrous first trip to Europe when Russia invaded immediatetly after she left the Munich security conference.

Bottom line is that failed US policy and arrogance led to what we see today, and all this could have been avoided but there is simply too many people with an interest in Ukraine to do what's reasonable under the circumstances to AVOID a war that's been escalating with no end in sight.

So now we launching US long range missiles to the interior of Russia by proxy and Russia will ultimately retaliate. And when they do we'll all cry about it and wear lapel ribbons.

So who knows if we can go 60 more days until the new admin takes a shot at de-escilating this. But in the meantime it looks like the current admin doing everything in their power to get all hell broke loose before then.

NATO doesn't expand. It's invited. At times, even begged.

There's a reason for that.

And it's telling that in your long post you failed to point a single finger or blame Russia for anything at all.

This is ultimately the disconnect we been arguing over for 3-years and there's no resolution to it.

Some subscribe to that world view, others do not.

The worldview that Russia is completely blameless after invading multiple former neighbors while NATO hasn't invaded Russia one single time?

That's dumb.

The end.