WTAF is Biden doing?!? (Ukraine)

30,761 Views | 577 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by titan
PlaneCrashGuy
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

NYT reporting Biden might give nukes to the green goblin as a parting gift?




Nowhere in that article does it say "Biden might give Ukraine nukes"


It's like the saddest game of telephone imaginable.

Article - "Random anonymous staffers suggest Biden could give Ukraine nukes back as a deterrent to Putin launching more unprovoked invasions."

Tweeter (who is also pro Palestine from the rest of his posts, great sourcing as usual from Nortex), shares the article with the usual anti-US commentary.

Nortex shares the anti US/pro Palestine twitter account and claims the article said Biden wants to give Ukraine nukes, despite the article not saying that, banking that people won't actually read the article.

Rinse repeat.


What exactly have you seen from Biden that makes you so confident in him? I'm not getting it.
nortex97
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I'm not saying I trust the NYT of course but that's what they reported.





Now if they made it up, great, but it sounds like they were talking to folks in the cabinet/administration about the consideration/idiotic idea actually happening. F-16's, land mines, pencil-whipped cluster bombs, Abrams, long range weapons into Russia, everything else has wound up being green-lit to the green goblin so far, so I expect nukes and Tomahawks (also on the latter's demand list now) to happen somehow between now and noon on Jan 20.
J. Walter Weatherman
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

NYT reporting Biden might give nukes to the green goblin as a parting gift?




Nowhere in that article does it say "Biden might give Ukraine nukes"


It's like the saddest game of telephone imaginable.

Article - "Random anonymous staffers suggest Biden could give Ukraine nukes back as a deterrent to Putin launching more unprovoked invasions."

Tweeter (who is also pro Palestine from the rest of his posts, great sourcing as usual from Nortex), shares the article with the usual anti-US commentary.

Nortex shares the anti US/pro Palestine twitter account and claims the article said Biden wants to give Ukraine nukes, despite the article not saying that, banking that people won't actually read the article.

Rinse repeat.


What exactly have you seen from Biden that makes you so confident in him? I'm not getting it.


What in the post you quoted suggests I'm "confident in Biden"? He doesn't even know where he is most days.
Teslag
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Again where does it say Biden is considering it?
J. Walter Weatherman
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Nowhere does the article say "Biden might give nukes." It's literally saying there are anonymous staffers that said he could return them as an option, which could literally be from anyone in the admin that decided to talk to the NYT. If it said "Biden is considering returning nukes to Ukraine" your summary would be slightly more accurate. But you already know that.
nortex97
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Nowhere does the article say "Biden might give nukes." It's literally saying there are anonymous staffers that said he could return them as an option, which could literally be from anyone in the admin that decided to talk to the NYT. If it said "Biden is considering returning nukes to Ukraine" your summary would be slightly more accurate. But you already know that.
Well the staffers don't have the power to do it without at least faking his signature, as when they had him 'drop out of the race for re-election.' They've already executed the coup on him, and he's useless to them moving forward.

You are right, they may be lying, because they wouldn't be floating the idea unless it was being discussed at the top decision-making levels…which might just be the Admin's staffers (including intelligence agency folks) since POTATUS himself doesn't have a clue where he is at any point of the day even. It's a distinction without a difference to suggest Biden himself isn't reported to be actively considering it, as the only real thing he considers is whether he has crapped his pants at this point. But…you already know that.
Joes
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Nowhere does the article say "Biden might give nukes." It's literally saying there are anonymous staffers that said he could return them as an option, which could literally be from anyone in the admin that decided to talk to the NYT. If it said "Biden is considering returning nukes to Ukraine" your summary would be slightly more accurate. But you already know that.



I'm half-joking (I think) but at this point random staffers are probably "the President" as much as Biden is. Biden and Harris aren't initiating or controlling any of our actions, good or bad. A collection of bureaucrats is.
PlaneCrashGuy
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You seemed confident the reports from sources in his staff are inaccurate. I'm asking why. What leadership has Biden shown you that we shouldn't believe the reports coming out?
J. Walter Weatherman
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

You seemed confident the reports from sources in his staff are inaccurate. I'm asking why. What leadership has Biden shown you that we shouldn't believe the reports coming out?


I have no idea if they are accurate or not. The point was the article didn't say what nortex claimed it said.
Teslag
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It absolutely didn't. That's why posting screenshots of articles is lazy. I actually bothered to find the article and read it (which you often have it do with nortex links because Russian mil bloggers and bots never supply them), and the article never states they are Biden staffers or even American staffers. Could be Euros from the article.
ABATTBQ11
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Teslag said:

It absolutely didn't. That's why posting screenshots of articles is lazy. I actually bothered to find the article and read it (which you often have it do with nortex links because Russian mil bloggers and bots never supply them), and the article never states they are Biden staffers or even American staffers. Could be Euros from the article.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
nortex97
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Teslag said:

It absolutely didn't. That's why posting screenshots of articles is lazy. I actually bothered to find the article and read it (which you often have it do with nortex links because Russian mil bloggers and bots never supply them), and the article never states they are Biden staffers or even American staffers. Could be Euros from the article.


Yeah, the NYT (mouthpiece of the administration) is lying and this trial balloon is actually some euro's. Makes perfect sense! Glad our resident pro-war caucus at least seems to be opposed to handing Zelensky's team nukes as Trump is sworn in.

Y'all are hilarious. Every single one of us know Joseph Robinette Biden isn't making any real decisions (is somehow the expectation that my post indicated he sat down for an interview and discussed it, even off the record?), it's his 'handlers' (or staffers/officials whatever term one wants to use), who are happy to chirp to the NYT and try to carve out some influence/future jobs, running the country and our nuclear arsenal/war plans.

It's not even entirely implausible there is a bit of a bidding war going on to 'influence' 'Biden' into taking certain actions behind the scenes. His crime familia's been on the Russian/Ukrainian take for decades, after all (Burisma, while Ukrainian, was controlled by mostly Russian oligarchs). Notice Yelena Baturina, strangely, is still exempt from sanctions, just as Yevtushenkov is.
Quote:

Archer testified July 31 to the Oversight Committee that he wasn't sure why Baturina's money was routed to the entity that he and the then-second son co-owned. Baturina separately invested about $120 million with Archer's Rosemont Realty real estate firm, he said. Hunter Biden was briefly associated with that company as well, Archer said.

Archer also told the panel that Joe Biden, while vice president, attended a spring 2014 dinner at DC's Caf Milano with Baturina and a group of his son's Kazakhstani business associates, one of whom, Kenes Rakishev, had wired $142,3000 on April 22, 2014, for Hunter to buy a luxury car.

Baturina also appears to have attended a second Caf Milano dinner featuring Joe and Hunter Biden in April 2014, though Archer did not recollect her attendance in his testimony.

Emails from 2015 discuss Baturina as an invitee and a different attendee of that dinner told The Post he saw her there.
Meh, probably nothing. Shell companies, freedom, democracy, etc.
Teslag
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Massive deflection which doesn't disprove anything I said, especially clipping out the context before it in your screenshot. Typical.


Next time be honest with your headline
Stat Monitor Repairman
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So now we talkin' about RE-arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons?

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE BABY!

2024 delivers, day-after-day!
Teslag
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See, propaganda works
Red Fishing Ag93
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People are actually enjoying this war. A War.

Sick.
nortex97
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Yes, that is the level of insanity we are up to.


When he was not demented lyin' Joe Biden used to be concerned about this:


It's a quite popular idea in the blue and yellow flag world online:
J. Walter Weatherman
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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

People are actually enjoying this war. A War.

Sick.


Who is "enjoying" it?
Ag in Tiger Country
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It's certainly Teslag's favorite thread- ever!
Teslag
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Ag in Tiger Country said:

It's certainly Teslag's favorite thread- ever!


I'm not the one literally curating daily Russian talking points and propaganda on a dedicated thread. Every single day.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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  • Putin: the West should think carefully
  • Russia fired medium-range hypersonic missile
  • Putin: the Ukraine war is going global
  • Russia gives warning on INF missiles
  • Putin says Russia has right to strike back

WW3 rolls on throughout Europe, north-Africa and the middle-east.
Rossticus
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Well, if Putin says so…
Ag in Tiger Country
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No, but you are camped here to rebut ANY negative press headed Ukraine's way regardless whether it's warranted or not. That's fine- you do you, but don't try to stifle the discussion by questioning the motivation of others by suggesting they're willingly espousing "Russian propaganda"; for many of us, the utility of this conflict no longer outweighs the costs, both financial & human suffering. Our opinions of this war are just different from yours, much like when you wanted to 'salute the (covid) vaccine' while some of chose not to do so.
pagerman @ work
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Ag in Tiger Country said:

No, but you are camped here to rebut ANY negative press headed Ukraine's way regardless whether it's warranted or not. That's fine- you do you, but don't try to stifle the discussion by questioning the motivation of others by suggesting they're willingly espousing "Russian propaganda"; for many of us, the utility of this conflict no longer outweighs the costs, both financial & human suffering. Our opinions of this war are just different from yours, much like when you wanted to 'salute the (covid) vaccine' while some of chose not to do so.

WAgaun, why should our government care about the "human suffering" in a war between two countries that want to fight each other from a foreign policy perspective?

Russia clearly wants to fight or they wouldn't have invaded in the first place and they certainly wouldn't have stayed if they didn't want to fight. Ukraine clearly wants to fight to defend their country or they would have rolled over by now. So why should we care?

Note this is not the same as funding it. It's one thing to decide to cut off funding. But it's something else entirely to decide that our government policy needs to be to force a peace on two countries that want to fight. Who gives a sh/t if Russia and Ukraine want to fight (as a stand-alone proposition)?

We either need to decide that the Russia-Ukraine fight doesn't matter and then stop funding it, or decide that it does matter and keep doing what we are doing.

But deciding it matters then forcing a settlement on the situation makes no policy sense.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Stat Monitor Repairman
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2024 and with all the technological progress that's been made humans are still a bunch violent and territorial apes.

The information superhighway was touted to usher in an era of peace and cooperation.

40-years in an it's done the opposite.
Teslag
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Quote:

suggesting they're willingly espousing "Russian propaganda"


Why the quotes? Most of those sources are literally Russian propaganda outlets or actual Russian government media.
Ag in Tiger Country
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Some in Ukraine MAY have wanted to fight at first (ie. the Ukrainian neo-Nazis) even though a LOT of military aged men fled their nation before, during, & since; however, at the present moment the fervor for war certainly ain't present among the majority of folks there. Simply try a search for videos of Ukrainian military personnel rounding up young men for conscription from area bars in Ukraine; they're kicking and screaming as they're forced into awaiting vans.

Seriously, your willingness to volunteer others to fight this conflict while you sit comfortably from afar is troubling; this conflict is nothing more than a meat grinder that could spiral out of control at any moment, so take your 'Slava Ukraine' virtue-signaling bull**** some where else.
Ag in Tiger Country
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Here you go:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8LGjAB7/
pagerman @ work
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Ag in Tiger Country said:

Some in Ukraine MAY have wanted to fight at first (ie. the Ukrainian neo-Nazis) even though a LOT of military aged men fled their nation before, during, & since; however, at the present moment the fervor for war certainly ain't present among the majority of folks there. Simply try a search for videos of Ukrainian military personnel rounding up young men for conscription from area bars in Ukraine; they're kicking and screaming as they're forced into awaiting vans.

Seriously, your willingness to volunteer others to fight this conflict while you sit comfortably from afar is troubling; this conflict is nothing more than a meat grinder that could spiral out of control at any moment, so take your 'Slava Ukraine' virtue-signaling bull**** some where else.

I said absolutely nothing resembling what you claim I said.

I don't want to volunteer anyone for anything. At all.

Further, I did not advocate one path or another in terms of continuing or ceasing funding Ukraine's fight.

And if anyone is virtue signaling it is you with your self righteous and sanctimonious "stop the killing" caterwauling. Where do you get off telling Ukrainians they shouldn't fight to defend their country from invasion?

We don't have to fund it one way or the other, but to pretend we have to stop it is ridiculous on its face.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Red Fishing Ag93
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Teslag said:

Quote:

It's only the US that has been expanding NATO eastward since fall of Soviet Union.


NATO doesn't expand. It's a defensive pact that countries often times literally beg to join.

Here's the worst propoganda I've seen on the entire thread.
ABATTBQ11
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Here's the actual article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/21/us/politics/trump-russia-ukraine-war.html

Here's the text, in context:
Quote:


The one gold-standard security guarantee that Ukraine wants is an invitation to join NATO. But it could not get that under Mr. Biden, and an invitation is unlikely during Mr. Trump's presidency.

So U.S. and European officials are discussing deterrence as a possible security guarantee for Ukraine, such as stockpiling a conventional arsenal sufficient to strike a punishing blow if Russia violates a cease-fire.

Several officials even suggested that Mr. Biden could return nuclear weapons to Ukraine that were taken from it after the fall of the Soviet Union. That would be an instant and enormous deterrent. But such a step would be complicated and have serious implications.


Andriy Zagorodnyuk, a former Ukrainian defense minister, said in an interview that for a successful cease-fire, Ukraine and its allies must reverse the momentum on the front line to set conditions for talks.

Ukraine must also have sufficient firepower in reserve to deter any cease-fire violations, he said, for example with an arsenal of longer-range weaponry to inflict immediate damage if Russia resumes hostilities.



NOWHERE does it say the things you keep claiming.

1. There is no specification of whether these officials are American or European
2. There's no specification on what these officials do or who they report to. Are they administration officials who have direct input on policy discussions and decisions, or are they analysts or advisors whose job is to simply explore what options are possible and what their outcomes might be?
3. There is no indication of whether this is a legitimate, serious policy consideration or simply a possibility being discussed with all others, no matter how remote.
4. There is no indication of whether these are official policy considerations or simply the opinion of these unnamed officials.

Sure, some officials may have suggested it, but they may or may not be American, they may or may not have been serious policy suggestions, and they may or may not have been merely opinions. That's is a very far cry from, "Joe Biden giving Ukraine nukes?"

And then your other tweets about, "Headlines about Joe Biden considering the return of nuclear weapons to Ukraine," are also making mountains out of molehills. The headline on the article is, "Trump's Vow to End the War Could Leave Ukraine With Few Options." None of that is mentioned in the headline. In fact, the first mention of the possibility is in the 28th(!) paragraph of 32, and it is mentioned exactly once. It would seem that such claims might be just a little overblown.


If you could be bothered to go beyond just reading an out of context snippet and inaccurate summary and instead read an actual source critically, then maybe you'd see that the article in that tweet does not say what that tweet says it does. And if you could do that instead of waving away the quite obvious stretching of the truth in that tweet, then maybe you'd see "LordBeebo" for what it actually is.

But you can't, and you won't. Why? Because it tells you everything you want to hear, and that's the only thing you're interested in listening to.
Teslag
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Quote:

, at the present moment the fervor for war certainly ain't present among the majority of folks there. Simply try a search for videos of Ukrainian military personnel rounding up young men for conscription from area bars in Ukraine; they're kicking and screaming as they're forced into awaiting vans.


Many of those videos are fake and the exact type of Russian propaganda we talk about.

And two, there's no way you can get the mood of an entire country from Tik Tok videos, much less a majority. Recent polling in Ukraine still has Zelenskyy as popular.
nortex97
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Here's the actual article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/21/us/politics/trump-russia-ukraine-war.html

Here's the text, in context:
Quote:


The one gold-standard security guarantee that Ukraine wants is an invitation to join NATO. But it could not get that under Mr. Biden, and an invitation is unlikely during Mr. Trump's presidency.

So U.S. and European officials are discussing deterrence as a possible security guarantee for Ukraine, such as stockpiling a conventional arsenal sufficient to strike a punishing blow if Russia violates a cease-fire.

Several officials even suggested that Mr. Biden could return nuclear weapons to Ukraine that were taken from it after the fall of the Soviet Union. That would be an instant and enormous deterrent. But such a step would be complicated and have serious implications.

Andriy Zagorodnyuk, a former Ukrainian defense minister, said in an interview that for a successful cease-fire, Ukraine and its allies must reverse the momentum on the front line to set conditions for talks.

Ukraine must also have sufficient firepower in reserve to deter any cease-fire violations, he said, for example with an arsenal of longer-range weaponry to inflict immediate damage if Russia resumes hostilities.



NOWHERE does it say the things you keep claiming.

1. There is no specification of whether these officials are American or European
2. There's no specification on what these officials do or who they report to. Are they administration officials who have direct input on policy discussions and decisions, or are they analysts or advisors whose job is to simply explore what options are possible and what their outcomes might be?
3. There is no indication of whether this is a legitimate, serious policy consideration or simply a possibility being discussed with all others, no matter how remote.
4. There is no indication of whether these are official policy considerations or simply the opinion of these unnamed officials.

Sure, some officials may have suggested it, but they may or may not be American, they may or may not have been serious policy suggestions, and they may or may not have been merely opinions. That's is a very far cry from, "Joe Biden giving Ukraine nukes?"

And then your other tweets about, "Headlines about Joe Biden considering the return of nuclear weapons to Ukraine," are also making mountains out of molehills. The headline on the article is, "Trump's Vow to End the War Could Leave Ukraine With Few Options." None of that is mentioned in the headline. In fact, the first mention of the possibility is in the 28th(!) paragraph of 32, and it is mentioned exactly once. It would seem that such claims might be just a little overblown.


If you could be bothered to go beyond just reading an out of context snippet and inaccurate summary and instead read an actual source critically, then maybe you'd see that the article in that tweet does not say what that tweet says it does. And if you could do that instead of waving away the quite obvious stretching of the truth in that tweet, then maybe you'd see "LordBeebo" for what it actually is.

But you can't, and you won't. Why? Because it tells you everything you want to hear, and that's the only thing you're interested in listening to.
Thank you. So there is question as to which Joe Biden cabinet/officials are suggesting he give Ukraine 'back' 'their nukes.' I think your obfuscation about the NYT reporting with greater quotes only reinforces this trial balloon.

Do you categorically oppose giving Zelensky nukes before Jan 20, or after? Just curious.
Quote:

Several officials even suggested that Mr. Biden could return nuclear weapons to Ukraine that were taken from it after the fall of the Soviet Union. That would be an instant and enormous deterrent. But such a step would be complicated and have serious implications.
I stand by my post, including even the question mark. I have no idea if the NYT is making this up, but they definitely have good sources within the State Dept/NSC/Biden administration.
ABATTBQ11
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Quote:

So there is question as to which Joe Biden cabinet/officials are suggesting he give Ukraine 'back' 'their nukes.' I think your obfuscation about the NYT reporting with greater quotes only reinforces this trial balloon.


Please, highlight where it says Joe Biden, or even Biden cabinet/officials, are considering this as you continue to say. I'll hang up and listen.


Quote:

Do you categorically oppose giving Zelensky nukes before Jan 20, or after? Just curious.


No.
Teslag
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Quote:

Please, highlight where it says Joe Biden, or even Biden cabinet/officials, are considering this as you continue to say. I'll hang up and listen.



He can't. He lied.
 
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