You think Russia is going to attack nato or something?

He knows full well that it's typical Russian saber rattling.

Teslag said:

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He knows full well that it's typical Russian saber rattling.

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Yep. All of the anti Ukraine twitter accounts lying about "omg WW3 is imminent!" he keeps sharing know this too. If Trump was in office they'd be cheering Ukraine on.

Clearly some of yall would have scoffed at the Soviet actions in 1962 as "saber rattling"…

History shows it's all saber rattling…until it isn't…

Each small escalation by either side may fall into the "noise" category on its own merits, but the summation of all events increases the likelihood that it eventually gets out of hand (and then we get the joy of going back and using hindsight to analyze how we reached that final tipping point)…

At the end of the day, it is in the world's best interest for Ukraine and Russia to find a suitable solution that puts an end to the conflict, increasing stability in the region…

I look forward to level-heads prevailing starting on Jan 20 so that we can turn the heat down on this thing before it gets to a level that can't be controlled…

This conflict has gone on long enough and achieved very little…time to turn it off and stop lining the pockets of military war machine manufacturers…

Test firing nuclear capable weapons into an enemy country/'state' the Russians are at war with, even with just 'inert' warheads is not a small thing. No ICBM I am aware of is designed to deliver conventional weapons, and it's somehow the Ukrainians themselves who claim to have identified the type of ICBM employed here.

Texas Representative: 'Americans do not want World War III' congressman writes to Biden after ATACMS decision.

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The Texas congressman questioned the timing of the decision and the potential ulterior motives behind doing so. Self also warned that permitting Ukraine to use these weapons, particularly at this juncture, especially after Putin's warning, could have dire consequences.

"If this desperate move by your administration represents an attempt by deep-state operatives to hamstring the incoming Trump presidency, it's a dangerous miscalculation," Self said in the letter. "I am very concerned that this miscalculation could have catastrophic results."

Biden's timing on the decision to allow Ukraine to use the long-range missile systems is arguably questionable. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky had been pleading for weeks to use the weapons, which can travel up to 190 miles from where they were launched. He said it was imperative to be able to counter Russian aggression by being able to strike targets inside Russia. However, Biden repeatedly refused. The president changed his mind due to the presence of North Korean troops fighting on behalf of Russia, according to the New York Times.

In his letter, the congressman mentioned that both Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed a desire to resolve the conflict once President-elect Donald Trump began his term in January. The decision to allow Ukraine to use ATACMS shortly before Trump began his term jeopardized this objective.

"Americans do not want World War III," Self wrote. "This newfound expectation for peace in Eastern Europe is the byproduct of the will of the American people, who decisively pledged their support for a Commander-in-Chief who is committed to accomplishing peace through strength."

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Just for the set of folks who seem to worry about what I really think/know, I am not US Rep Keith Self (R-TX), and will not be receiving a classified briefing. But, he's right.

Exactly…

That whole conflict, in a vacuum, has become a zero sum game…

Need to find a way to turn it off while it's still "death by a thousand paper cuts", before one side decides that it's time to start swinging an ax…

We overthrew a legitimately elected Ukrainian President in '14

Billions of dollars have been funneled and laundered through the Ukraine

US President family members have personally been enriched by Ukrainian under the table money

Now neocons have used the Ukraine to guide NATO into WW3 with Russia

And people here lap it up--bigly. Such a study in propaganda and psychology.

FireAg said:

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At the end of the day, it is in the world's best interest for Ukraine and Russia to find a suitable solution that puts an end to the conflict, increasing stability in the region…

I look forward to level-heads prevailing starting on Jan 20 so that we can turn the heat down on this thing before it gets to a level that can't be controlled…

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It's in the world's best interest and the American taxpayer's best interest. None of us voted for this **** and many of us are tired of the money laundering.

Your forgot the nazis and nato encroachment

Who?mikejones! said:

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Your forgot the nazis and nato encroachment

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Don't forget biolabs.

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Such a study in propaganda and psychology.

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It definitely is, especially in how one country can take advantage of divisions in another country to influence an entire wing of one of the political parties in that country.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Your forgot the nazis and nato encroachment

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James Baker: "Not one inch"

There is a tremendous amount of english pro-Russia mouth pieces out there targeted at Western viewers. Judging Freedom site with Napolitano , Scott Ritter, ex-colonel Douglas MacGregor, this 'Dialogue Works' site below, even Tucker Carlson now to a lesser degree. Where the U.S. and Israel and the West are continuously framed as aggressive war mongers close to 'collapse' while the Russians and other members of the Axis of Resistance are peace loving yet strong and infallible and just defending themselves against Western aggression.

An example from just yesterday, humorous even. This is Dialog Works where one of this guy's frequent guests talks about how the Russians have been 'taking it easy' on the Ukrainians but will show no mercy if the Americans get involved, and talks about how if the Russians decide to attack the U.S. that they have developed the technological capability to destroy the entire U.S. East Coast including Washington D.C. by a man-made Tsunami such that the U.S. won't even know it was the Russians who did it. It is like the guy watched that 2017 Gerard Butler bad movie 'Geostorm' and thought that was pretty cool concept and is regurgitating it.

And the Dialogue Works guy is just nodding his head up and down while this guy is yapping all this ridiculous stuff.

But the thing is...all this mass of people are presumably making good income on Social Media doing the 'West is bad, Russia/China/Iran are good' anti-American programming 24-7...and there are no doubt some people in the West are buying into that world view. It is just as bad or worse than anything from mass media in the West.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7P_LB2FBaQ&t=771s]Dmitry Orlov: Russia's Massive Attack Coming? - Israel Collapsing on All Fronts[/url]

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Test firing nuclear capable weapons into an enemy country/'state' the Russians are at war with, even with just 'inert' warheads is not a small thing

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Russia has been using nuclear capable platforms since this war started...

They've replaced Scott Ritter with that clown David Sachs now.

Teslag said:

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Test firing nuclear capable weapons into an enemy country/'state' the Russians are at war with, even with just 'inert' warheads is not a small thing

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Russia has been using nuclear capable platforms since this war started...

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At least this one actually worked for them.

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-russia-ukraine-nuclear-missile-1957836

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Teslag said:

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He knows full well that it's typical Russian saber rattling.

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Yep. All of the anti Ukraine twitter accounts lying about "omg WW3 is imminent!" he keeps sharing know this too. If Trump was in office they'd be cheering Ukraine on.

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Are you f'n serious? Have you not watched the thousands of clips of Trump being against wars and him wanting this to end?

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At the end of the day, it is in the world's best interest for Ukraine and Russia to find a suitable solution that puts an end to the conflict, increasing stability in the region…

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Suitable being the operative word.

Suitable to whom, exactly?

And again, if Ukrainians and Russians want to kill each other why should we get in the way of that, exactly?

Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Teslag said:

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He knows full well that it's typical Russian saber rattling.

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Yep. All of the anti Ukraine twitter accounts lying about "omg WW3 is imminent!" he keeps sharing know this too. If Trump was in office they'd be cheering Ukraine on.

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Are you f'n serious? Have you not watched the thousands of clips of Trump being against wars and him wanting this to end?

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I watched clip of him saying he will arm Ukraine "to the teeth" if Putin doesn't agree to a peace deal. Did you?

pagerman @ work said:

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Suitable to whom, exactly?

And again, if Ukrainians and Russians want to kill each other why should we get in the way of that, exactly?

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We are not getting in the way, we are paying for the arms, firing some into Russia ourselves, and paying the Ukraine every step of the way. Nothing passive about (neocon-designed) USA involvement since 2014

jagvocate said:

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We overthrew a legitimately elected Ukrainian President in '14

Billions of dollars have been funneled and laundered through the Ukraine

US President family members have personally been enriched by Ukrainian under the table money

Now neocons have used the Ukraine to guide NATO into WW3 with Russia

And people here lap it up--bigly. Such a study in propaganda and psychology.

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Exactly.

Add in all of the other legitimate governments our CIA has overthrown for access to natural resources.

Who the good guys are has become as clear as mud.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The US Army has two divisions deployed near the Romanian border with Ukraine. Folks tend to forget that, and we never hear anything about that fact.

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Really? Which ones? The 3rd ID? The 101st Airborne? 1st Cav? You'd think if 2 entire divisions had been deployed we'd all know about it.

Not to mention that many units aren't even "deployed" there. It's a PCS move for many as we shift forces there from Germany.

jagvocate said:

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We overthrew a legitimately elected Ukrainian President in '14

Billions of dollars have been funneled and laundered through the Ukraine

US President family members have personally been enriched by Ukrainian under the table money

Now neocons have used the Ukraine to guide NATO into WW3 with Russia

And people here lap it up--bigly. Such a study in propaganda and psychology.

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The "legitimately elected" Russian puppet fled to Russia. Then Ukrainians legitimately elected someone else.

jagvocate said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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Suitable to whom, exactly?

And again, if Ukrainians and Russians want to kill each other why should we get in the way of that, exactly?

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We are not getting in the way, we are paying for the arms, firing some into Russia ourselves, and paying the Ukraine every step of the way. Nothing passive about (neocon-designed) USA involvement since 2014

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There are multiple posters on this thread wringing their hands about "stopping the killing" and "Trump needs to stop the war", which is a nonsensical perspective vis-a-vis foreign policy.

Want to cut the money/equipment off? Okay. I disagree but that can at least be argued as a valid foreign policy position.

Cries to "stop the war" and "stop the killing" however make no sense. Cutting off Ukraine and trying to force them to eat the results of an invasion by a foreign country are not the same thing. It is not the place of the US to dictate to Ukraine that they have to cede any amount of territory to Russia. It's their country, and they can fight for it if they want to, and that fight is 100% valid.

That said, the validity of their fight does not mean that the US has to support it. So cut them off (or threaten to). But the notion that the US has some weird obligation to stop the fighting is ridiculous.

pagerman @ work said:

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jagvocate said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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Suitable to whom, exactly?

And again, if Ukrainians and Russians want to kill each other why should we get in the way of that, exactly?

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We are not getting in the way, we are paying for the arms, firing some into Russia ourselves, and paying the Ukraine every step of the way. Nothing passive about (neocon-designed) USA involvement since 2014

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There are multiple posters on this thread wringing their hands about "stopping the killing" and "Trump needs to stop the war", which is a nonsensical perspective vis-a-vis foreign policy.

Want to cut the money/equipment off? Okay. I disagree but that can at least be argued as a valid foreign policy position.

Cries to "stop the war" and "stop the killing" however make no sense. Cutting off Ukraine and trying to force them to eat the results of an invasion by a foreign country are not the same thing. It is not the place of the US to dictate to Ukraine that they have to cede any amount of territory to Russia. It's their country, and they can fight for it if they want to, and that fight is 100% valid.

That said, the validity of their fight does not mean that the US has to support it. So cut them off (or threaten to). But the notion that the US has some weird obligation to stop the fighting is ridiculous.

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That said, the validity of their fight does not mean that the US has to support it. So cut them off (or threaten to). But the notion that the US has some weird obligation to stop the fighting is ridiculous.

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'Obligation' is something the pro-war side has talked about a lot, though as a nation state we have a pretty terrible record at follow through with such 'allies' since at least the 1960's. Those of us opposed to it (it=supporting the Kiev/Nuland regime financially/militarily) have no real interest in funding the prolonging of Biden's proxy war with Russia, nor concern for where the line is ultimately drawn (if any) between Ukraine and Russia. I also don't feel an obligation to convince Iranians to accept the ayatollah's after Jimmy Carter approved flying Khomeini there from Paris, among many others.

In reality, no ICBM would have been launched into Ukraine but for Joe Biden's recent decision. Period, full stop.

We need to get out of the revolution business, before it gets further out of hand. If people want to fight over borders (which is what all wars are, ultimately), fine, I just don't want my son/family conscripted into these fights, especially with nuclear powers. End the client-state era of US diplomacy and we just might be better off financially, as well as in international relations. For a longer perspective, I recommend Rogan's latest podcast with Evan Hafer (episode 2230).

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the pro-war side

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Remember, this poster absolutely hates mischaracterizations, name calling, and lying about his positions. I guess what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

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In reality, no ICBM would have been launched into Ukraine but for Joe Biden's recent decision. Period, full stop.

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There also wouldn't be any ICBM's launched into Ukraine if Russia hadn't decided to invade a sovereign independent nation.

Teslag said:

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the pro-war side

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Remember, this poster absolutely hates mischaracterizations, name calling, and lying about his positions. I guess what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

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The guy that's stated repeatedly he hopes Russia conquers Ukraine is calling other people "pro war". What a world.

Teslag said:

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the pro-war side

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Remember, this poster absolutely hates mischaracterizations, name calling, and lying about his positions. I guess what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

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I certainly didn't name you or claim to know what you really believe/think. Not real sure why you are concerned here, and I only reply when you insist on quoting me with some sort of approbation that I have violated your terms, or lie about what my positions/beliefs are.

Your reputation and beliefs are entirely your own, and I have no interest in disparaging it. Have a nice day.

Teslag said:

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In reality, no ICBM would have been launched into Ukraine but for Joe Biden's recent decision. Period, full stop.

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There also wouldn't be any ICBM's launched into Ukraine if Russia hadn't decided to invade a sovereign independent nation.

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Just more examples of the "other perspectives" doing everything they can to blame literally any other person in the world besides the only one responsible for the war.

Yep. It's basically the same every time…

"While I don't support russia, here's all the reasons why Russia is completely justified in invading a sovereign nation, killing their civilians, and annexing it into Russia. Also, though I totlally don't support Russia I hope they win, all of Ukraine falls, and Zelenskyy is murdered. In addition, as an American patriot that just wants my tax dollars not to go to Ukraine, I believe America is responsible for all of the worlds problems and we've started every single war in the world for the past 100 years."

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here's all the reasons why Russia is completely justified in invading a sovereign nations.

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This is that piece of plywood thats been sitting in the back yard for years.

Now you gonna lift it up and see if there is a snake underneath?

Maybe the worst argument of all time, comparatively speaking.

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingas****/s/BXcpUGK4Zl

Do you think we were forewarned that this was going to be launched without the nuclear warhead? Or did we just guess correctly? I assume our radars picked this up, so we knew an ICBM was in the air and likely headed to Ukraine, but we had to know it wasn't a real nuke, right?

Teslag said:

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Yep. It's basically the same every time…

"While I don't support russia, here's all the reasons why Russia is completely justified in invading a sovereign nation, killing their civilians, and annexing it into Russia. Also, though I totlally don't support Russia I hope they win, all of Ukraine falls, and Zelenskyy is murdered. In addition, as an American patriot that just wants my tax dollars not to go to Ukraine, I believe America is responsible for all of the worlds problems and we've started every single war in the world for the past 100 years."

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