rathAG05 said:

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Should've done that in the beginning rather than ham stringing them fir the past two years. These people are ******ed and don't know how to win.

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American rockets + American launchers + American targeting intel + American communications + Ukrainian button pusher.

Russian homeland targets being destroyed by an American killchain with ostensible Ukrainian involvement… not super wise.

Bob Knights Paper Hands said:

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Who is this Biden character you claim is making these decisions. I'd bet good money Joe Biden is not deciding these things.

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BlueTaze said:

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Rossticus said:

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We're nowhere near WW3 at this particular moment and I don't see a realistic scenario under which that happens. Russia isn't going to directly attack the US or NATO over anything that happens in Ukraine under the current scenario.

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We are a hellova lot closer than we were in 2020, when Biden warned that's where Trump would take us.

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I won't argue that Biden has done a piss poor job. We're in lock step agreement on that point.

Rossticus said:

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We're nowhere near WW3 at this particular moment and I don't see a realistic scenario under which that happens. Russia isn't going to directly attack the US or NATO over anything that happens in Ukraine under the current scenario.

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One of the rules in The Art of War is to leave your enemy with a way out so they don't revert to acts of desperation.

Even if we assume Russia's functioning nuclear arsenal is just 5% of what's on the books: let's be careful about pushing them to desperation.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Rossticus said:

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We're nowhere near WW3 at this particular moment and I don't see a realistic scenario under which that happens. Russia isn't going to directly attack the US or NATO over anything that happens in Ukraine under the current scenario.

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One of the rules in The Art of War is to leave your enemy with a way out so they don't revert to acts of desperation.

Even if we assume Russia's functioning nuclear arsenal is just 5% of what's on the books: let's be careful about pushing them to desperation.

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They have had ways out. The issue is that Putin has painted himself into a corner such that his only acceptable way out borders on complete victory. You can't force someone to take an off ramp that they don't want to and you can't hand them a near total victory due to their refusal to consider any other option.

It's a situation which requires both diplomatic and military skill sets that the current administration clearly lacks.

Major Geopolitical shifts and major wars start in very short time phases. Sometimes less than 24 hours.

Anyone wanting more people to die in this stupid war over mud fields is a fool.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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If you're gonna wage war then wage war.

The slap fighting doesn't solve anything.

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Exactly. There's something to be said about escalation control but when you're not even willing to take the first step on the first rung of the escalation ladder to restore some semblance of deterrence, what are you even doing?

"Give me your lunch money or I'll escalate things."

-Putin

"Here! Take my lunch money! And my bike! And my girlfriend!"

-OP, probably

Jock 07 said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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If you're gonna wage war then wage war.

The slap fighting doesn't solve anything.

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Exactly. There's something to be said about escalation control but when you're not even willing to take the first step on the first rung of the escalation ladder to restore some semblance of deterrence, what are you even doing?

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Answer: Self-deterring. Enemies love that.

Russia should get to enjoy missiles hitting them beyond the lines too. Great move.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Major Geopolitical shifts and major wars start in very short time phases. Sometimes less than 24 hours.

Anyone wanting more people to die in this stupid war over mud fields is a fool.

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Russia doesn't want mud fields. They want strategic positioning to maintain control over Crimea, control over oil and gas reserves in the Black Sea, and control over the mineral resources in eastern Ukraine. There's a host of reasons they've been strategically investing in fomenting unrest and supporting separatist groups for over a decade.

They were content with subverting Ukrainian politics through bribes and kickbacks, but when it was apparent that wasn't going to last, they started resorting to active measures to split off the parts of Ukraine they wanted. Believe it or not, the "little green men" that were actually Russian soldiers were not, in fact, invading Ukraine in 2014 of their own spontaneous volition on their off time. In 2022 Russia acted to solidify those gains and take another not at the apple. They wanted to take Kiev and install a puppet government, but when that failed they moved to their secondary objectives of a land bridge and controlling areas with the resources they wanted.

Noteworthy that nobody's opinion on this has changed since Feb 2020.

Dangerous move on the part of whoever is controlling our country.

If Biden actually knows about this, I am sure he is happy that it is making matters harder for Trump to handle.

And we weren't subverting Ukraine either? We turned it into a US vessel state.


And even if everything you said is 100% true. WHO CARES? Is it worth starting nuclear war? Evaporating entire cities?


FOOLS! All of you pushing for this war to continue are damned fools.

Russia just hit Ukraine with one of the biggest missile and drone barrages of the war targeting their civilian infrastructure. Ukraine should not be handcuffed to defend themselves and strike back. i think a big retribution strike is imminent as the Uke's probably have an extensive target list built up over the last nearly three years. Russian air defenses have been less than impressive as well. Putin needs to know that he puts his country at grave risk when they launch one these mass attacks. Only language he understands.

Ukraine made striking the electrical and energy sector fair game a while back. Russia struck this weekend on Sunday when most were at home for minimal casualties. War is hell.

Lots of big govt raytheon war machine ****s around here.

Why are people pretending Biden authorised strikes into Russian territory?

Biden hasn’t got a clue what’s going on.

The Matrix did.

War allows them to retain control.

It’s a final act of desperation before the cleansing fire.

Pray they fail.

— Andrew Tate (@Cobratate) November 17, 2024

"Well, to be fair, Russia has now repeatedly used Iranian and North Korean missiles to strike Ukrainian cities and civilian infrastructure so Russia is apparently just fine with that being part of the rules of this war. It seems fair that Ukraine be allowed to retaliate in kind with its own foreign obtained long range weapons. I'm not sure why we have restrained them for months after Russia escalated to doing this."

Because Iranian/Shahed's are flying lawn mowers with small payload capacity. While Shahed's have a much further range, ATACMS more than 10X payload size and are presumably far more effective weapons.

one safe place said:

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An L of an Ag said:

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Sooo... start WW3 and use THAT as an excuse to declare national emergency and not hand over power to the incoming administration?!?

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lol, I despise biden and democrats, but do you seriously think that?

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Biden? He has no ****ing idea.
Democrats? Yes.
IC/Surveillance State? There's NOTHING out of bounds to them.

doubledog said:

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FireAg said:

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Biden authorizes Ukraine to use US long-range missiles to strike inside Russia: report https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-authorizes-ukraine-use-us-long-range-missiles-strike-inside-russia-report

Now we are escalating things? This is beyond stupid…

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Quote:

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WTAF is Biden doing?!?

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Biden is loading up his depends and eating ice cream. The Obama mafia is authoring war.

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Yep. Obama and Jarrett the Muppet trying to sow as much chaos as possible.

BlueTaze said:

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Remember that time Russia put missles in Cuba?
It was different bc we are the good guys, and Russia are the bad guys. But it is the same in that this is taking us to a place we have absolutely no business going.

How ironic. In 2020, Biden ran on avoiding a Trump WW3, now look at what's going on.

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Yep, even the more reasonable Eric Weinstein's of the world were panicking that Trump would get us into WWIII or set off nuclear war just 5-6 years ago, and now see the error of their ways and have totally switched positions. Trump has proven that he hates war and wants to avoid at all costs.

William Foster said:

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BlueTaze said:

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Remember that time Russia put missles in Cuba?
It was different bc we are the good guys, and Russia are the bad guys. But it is the same in that this is taking us to a place we have absolutely no business going.

How ironic. In 2020, Biden ran on avoiding a Trump WW3, now look at what's going on.

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Yep, even the more reasonable Eric Weinstein's of the world were panicking that Trump would get us into WWIII or set off nuclear war just 5-6 years ago, and now see the error of their ways and have totally switched positions. Trump has proven that he hates war and wants to avoid at all costs.

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I partially agree, but what makes Trump an anti-war force isn't that he hates it: it's that he brings Americanism back to the whitehouse. It's a FAFO persona that keeps strong men in check. He gets peace because bad actors can imagine him nuking them for it.

In fact, for decades that's been my #1 test for presidential eligibility. If other world leaders can't imagine the guy nuking their country out of existence, then he has no business getting a seat at that poker table.

We are providing the missles, logistics, intelligence, communications, and authorization. Ukraine is pushing the button. This will look like the US is launching missles into Russia. This needs to get de-escalated. Biden and Blinken are going in the wrong direction. January 20th can't get here soon enough.

And Ukraine is providing the blood and the loss of their infrastructure and civilians to Russian long range weapons.

Teslag said:

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And Ukraine is providing the blood and the loss of their infrastructure and civilians to Russian long range weapons.

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I'm not debating whether they have justification. Of course they do. But we don't want this thing escalating. Do something else, but these guys are dumbasses

Escalate how? Putin can't do **** and he's not launching nukes over this.

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ukraine made striking the electrical and energy sector fair game a while back. Russia struck this weekend on Sunday when most were at home for minimal casualties. War is hell.

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A really good way for Russia to not have missiles hit their infrastructure is to not have invaded a sovereign nation unprovoked.

War is hell

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Hate to tell you this, but we are not the best role models when giving lectures when it comes to invading sovereign nations.

France and U.K. just followed our lead.

MISSILES