samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

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Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

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Yep. I miss smallpox, polio, etc……. The reward for wiping out those horrible diseases far outweighs the risks to a microscopic portion of the population that have adverse reactions. Obviously they do work and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a knee jerk reaction.

B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

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Yep. I miss smallpox, polio, etc……. The reward for wiping out those horrible diseases far outweighs the risks to a microscopic portion of the population that have adverse reactions. Obviously they do work and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a knee jerk reaction.

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Yup, but the mRNA vaccines haven't worked out so well, have they? But that little fact hasn't served to slow down the marketing of them to the masses.

Perhaps the broad immunity granted to the parmaceutical companies has had something to do with it, don't you think?

jrdaustin said:

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B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

---

Yep. I miss smallpox, polio, etc……. The reward for wiping out those horrible diseases far outweighs the risks to a microscopic portion of the population that have adverse reactions. Obviously they do work and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a knee jerk reaction.

---

Yup, but the mRNA vaccines haven't worked out so well, have they? But that little fact hasn't served to slow down the marketing of them to the masses.

Perhaps the broad immunity granted to the parmaceutical companies has had something to do with it, don't you think?

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Where did the term "mRNA" come in here? I was addressing the broad brush used here:

Quote:

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Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute.

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jrdaustin said:

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RONA Ag said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

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First I need your to prove that statement. He's spoken out against vaccines in some cases and said some controversial things buts he's on the record as having taken and given to his kids all the "normal" vaccines and has been clear he isn't anti-vaccine in general.

Second his understanding of his instructions from Trump were reported by BBC as "Speaking in an NPR interview this week, Kennedy said Trump had given him three "instructions": to remove "corruption" from health agencies, to return these bodies to "evidence-based science and medicine", and "to end the chronic disease epidemic"."

The system is absolutely corrupt with the FDA being beholden to corporate food producers and Big Pharma. Can he change that in four years? I don't know. Are you aware of anyone else even willing to speak out in this manner and try?

The US is a fascist nation with the corporations having completely taken over and Trump is going to try and take it back by implementing a cadre of outsiders. They're going to get criticized by the establishment because those same corporations that own the food and drug companies own the media. For my part I don't trust any of them and I'm willing to support him fighting back.

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https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/12/15/exp-robert-kennedy-junior-rfk-2024-election-biden-trump-vaccines-121511aseg1-cnni-politics.cnn?cid=ios_app

He says it and then deflects it in the interview. I agree the FDA is corrupt and we need a shakeup. I do not think a career Enviromental lawyer who has a questionable past and low functioning morals would be the one to do it

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I just watched this, and all I can say to you is WOW! You are a very troubled person if you cannot acknowledge what he was trying to say both in the hit job attempt from CNN as well as the original clip that she referred to and showed.

There was no attempt to deflect anything in his answer. The CNN reporter's original premise is misleading at best, and is more accurately described as a gross misrepresentation.

So let me break it down to you in the elementary terms that you apparently require in order to understand what RFK was saying:

The whole concept of live vaccines is that you are given a small dose of the live pathogen in order to introduce your body to the pathogen, where it can then develop antibodies to fight the pathogen. SO YOU ARE EXPOSING YOUR BODY TO THE PATHOGEN - albeit a small dose. And guess what, sometimes people overreact to the vaccine. But as RFK explicity said, the overall benefit outweighs the harm to a few folks as a whole, so he is not ANTI-vax.

Just as chemo or immunotherapy kills both healthy cells as well as the cancer. Sometimes the overall benefit outweighs the harm. But for my 91 year old father, chemo is counterproductive because it will kill him before the cancer will.

This is NOT hard. And by the way, provide some specific examples of "questionable past" and "low functioning morals". All I am seeing from you is continued pot shots from the cheap seats.

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Dude bull***** I'm taking him for what he says. You're over here doing summersaults trying to interpret. He doubles down twice stating that there are no vaccines that are both safe and effective while claiming he's not anti vaccine.

He's either too stupid to properly articulate his position or he doesn't know what his position is. Maybe the brain worm from his divorce trial took his ability to effectively communicate

I've never spent alot of time diving into the arguments on Vaccines. I would consider myself a skeptic about the prevalence of them in our lives versus 50 years ago.

But as far as the big money arguments made by RFKJr against Big Pharma on this stuff. One counter argument I've never heard addressed to my liking. Isn't the prevalence of Autism diagnosis also because Autism treatments have become big business?

In other words, has there really been a rise in Autism at the level being reported today versus 50 years ago? There seems to be a corresponding decline in general "intellectual disabilities" diagnosis, especially among boys.

So isn't a big part of all this that we are labeling things different. Weren't some things labeled Autism today, labeled as schizophrenia 100 years ago? Again, I have dug super deep here over the years, but back in the day when we institutionalized behaviors we didn't understand, I'm pretty sure some of the behaviors on the Autism spectrum today would have been life long institutionalization 100 years ago.

I absolutely think RFK is onto something with our over processed food supply leading to diabetes and obesity epidemic. But it is still largely personal choice. You can make an argument that poor households would struggle with finding affordability by going completely healthy in their food choices, but there should be little issue with middle class and up. Even some levels of working class households should be able to manage as mostly healthy household.

Anyway, I think RFK is a mixed bag. I absolutely think that big pharma and big food should be challenged. I'm just skeptical of his claims that all of the rise in Autism is due to vaccines/food and not changes in how things are diagnosed.

jrdaustin said:

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B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

---

Yep. I miss smallpox, polio, etc……. The reward for wiping out those horrible diseases far outweighs the risks to a microscopic portion of the population that have adverse reactions. Obviously they do work and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a knee jerk reaction.

---

Yup, but the mRNA vaccines haven't worked out so well, have they? But that little fact hasn't served to slow down the marketing of them to the masses.

Perhaps the broad immunity granted to the parmaceutical companies has had something to do with it, don't you think?

---

mRNA "vaccines" did not meet the definition of a vaccine, so in the best interestb of "science" the government changed the definition of vaccines.
IANAL; Maybe an enterprising lawyer could use this to invalidate the exceptions to lawsuits for Pfizer, Moderno(re: especially if the definition was changed after the exemption to lawsuits).

samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

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So now all vaccines are unsafe?

Standards must be very low for becoming a journalist.

Teslag said:

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samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

---

So now all vaccines are unsafe?

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They are not 100% safe. Risks vary by vaccine. Don't you think it would be good to know the risk before injecting it? Perhaps the juice is not worth the squeeze. The point is to inform the public and let people make their own choices.

There's a distinct difference between something not being 100% safe and "unsafe" wouldn't you agree?

He's done many long form interviews and wrote books on the subject explaining his positions in detail. If you want to ignore those sources and focus on media soundbites that's your choice. You're obviously not serious about learning what his true positions on the subject are.

Teslag said:

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There's a distinct difference between something not being 100% safe and "unsafe" wouldn't you agree?

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Yep. People often use the wrong word to convey what they intend, but I get the jist of the argument.

ts5641 said:

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Um yeah natural coloring from fruit good, dyes added to make coloring bad. The NYT shouldn't be taken seriously.

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Yep, I'm really surprised the Times didn't bring up his brainwork!

Quo Vadis? said:

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I have zero idea how you have any respect for yourself as a journalist or even a human being after writing such an idiotic paragraph as the one I've screen shotted and posted.

"The ingredients are the same except for the berry and carrot colorings being replaced with a host of dyes and chemicals that sound like explosives"

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/15/health/rfk-big-food-artificial-dyes-trump.html

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One of the main ingredients is sugar. As if we are incapable of putting our own sugar on our cereal. If people want pre sweetened cereal, who am I to stop them.

This is the first thread I was hoping to find this morning! LOL

NYT made a fool of themselves, once again!

The Old Gray Lady has dementia!

B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

---

Yep. I miss smallpox, polio, etc……. The reward for wiping out those horrible diseases far outweighs the risks to a microscopic portion of the population that have adverse reactions. Obviously they do work and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a knee jerk reaction.

---

For those who do not remember or are too young... Smallpox was often fatal for my generation. My mother would take care to keep us out of harm's way. I can remember quarantine signs for small pox and whooping cough posted on front doors, in our neighborhood. My father made us cross the street when we walked in front of those houses. In 1977 that all changed. My children and grandchildren are safe from this killer, do not tell me vaccines are not safe, I have seen first hand how vaccines save.

doubledog said:

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B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute. These companies should not have immunity and the tax payers are covering the costs of these lawsuites, over a billion dollars so far.

---

Yep. I miss smallpox, polio, etc……. The reward for wiping out those horrible diseases far outweighs the risks to a microscopic portion of the population that have adverse reactions. Obviously they do work and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a knee jerk reaction.

---

For those who do not remember or are too young... Smallpox was often fatal for my generation. My mother would take care to keep us out of harm's way. I can remember quarantine signs for small pox and whooping cough posted on front doors, in our neighborhood. My father made us cross the street when we walked in front of those houses. In 1977 that all changed. My children and grandchildren are safe from this killer, do not tell me vaccines are not safe, I have seen first hand how vaccines save.

---

Nobody is advocating getting rid of vaccines. Not RFK or anyone in Trump's soon to be cabinet. But here are the questions.

1. Do you know what the risks are for all the different vaccines or know where to find that?

2. Do you think it would be good to know what your potential risk is based on your age etc...?

3. Do you think the government should be obligated to make sure we are informed of all these risks and be transparent?

4. Do you think Drug companies should be immune to any lawsuits if their vaccine causes serious bodily harm to people?

These are the things RFK is focused on with respect to vaccines. All the other soundbite you are hearing are hyperbole and lies to discredit who he is and what he's trying to accomplish. Consider the source and also consider the media gets a ton of ad revenue from big pharma.

Most of the concerns surrounding him are overblown, imo.

But when my kids were vaccinated in the early 2000s, I remember being handed laminated sheet after sheet describing the shot, the possible problems, etc and signing that I read them. Has that changed? What would he like done instead of this?

They're going to get criticized by the establishment, same corporations that own the food and drug companies own the media.

JB99 said:

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Nobody is advocating getting rid of vaccines. Not RFK or anyone in Trump's soon to be cabinet. But here are the questions.

1. Do you know what the risks are for all the different vaccines or know where to find that?

2. Do you think it would be good to know what your potential risk is based on your age etc...?

3. Do you think the government should be obligated to make sure we are informed of all these risks and be transparent?

4. Do you think Drug companies should be immune to any lawsuits if their vaccine causes serious bodily harm to people?

These are the things RFK is focused on with respect to vaccines. All the other soundbite you are hearing are hyperbole and lies to discredit who he is and what he's trying to accomplish. Consider the source and also consider the media gets a ton of ad revenue from big pharma.

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Quote:

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Vaccines are not safe, and they cause injuries, this is beyond dispute

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Sounds like at least someone is advocating against the use of vaccines... Or am I misreading the quote.

That's exactly why I asked. When someone says something "isn't safe" the implication is that it can't be safe under any circumstance.

He didn't articulate his point well.

But it came across to me that

1) vaccines are peddled as a 100% safe preventative treatment. This is not true. No medical treatment is wholly without risk.

2) it is rare, but injuries from vaccines do occur and the risk for injury should be made apparent to patients before they opt to have them.

3) companies producing vaccines should be held to the same standard as any other company that manufactures drugs and medical treatments and should be held liable for any injuries their treatments cause. This is currently not the case.


IMHO patients should be better informed of risks and the lack of true informed consent has created an environment that has allowed conspiracy theorists and doubt to cloud people's confidence in them.

We heard so often from the MSM and parroted here the phrase 100% safe and effective and that has made many people hate that phrase. Amd the poster likely meant they are not 100% safe.....as a counter argument to the vaccine narrative made commonplace by COVID.

It didn't help that the COVID gene therapy was intentionally mislabeled as a vaccine to push people to take it.

If they had called it what it really is people would not have been nearly as compliant.

The issue that confounds it and creates confusion is that there are in fact people who think no vaccines are safe. So unfortunately these days you do have to ask.

88planoAg said:

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Most of the concerns surrounding him are overblown, imo.

But when my kids were vaccinated in the early 2000s, I remember being handed laminated sheet after sheet describing the shot, the possible problems, etc and signing that I read them. Has that changed? What would he like done instead of this?

---

Those are well known vaccines and have been around for decades. Did you get the same sheet when you got a COVID vaccines? No

Do you get a sheet when you get a flu vaccine?

There's no requirement they have to do it so it's hit or miss. I never got a sheet when my kids were vaccinated.

RONA Ag said:

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jrdaustin said:

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RONA Ag said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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RONA Ag said:

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I mean RFK stating that "there are no safe and effective vaccines" is probably the only thing that should be required to eliminate him from contention. Way too much copiom around here about some of these dog **** cabinet appointments

---

First I need your to prove that statement. He's spoken out against vaccines in some cases and said some controversial things buts he's on the record as having taken and given to his kids all the "normal" vaccines and has been clear he isn't anti-vaccine in general.

Second his understanding of his instructions from Trump were reported by BBC as "Speaking in an NPR interview this week, Kennedy said Trump had given him three "instructions": to remove "corruption" from health agencies, to return these bodies to "evidence-based science and medicine", and "to end the chronic disease epidemic"."

The system is absolutely corrupt with the FDA being beholden to corporate food producers and Big Pharma. Can he change that in four years? I don't know. Are you aware of anyone else even willing to speak out in this manner and try?

The US is a fascist nation with the corporations having completely taken over and Trump is going to try and take it back by implementing a cadre of outsiders. They're going to get criticized by the establishment because those same corporations that own the food and drug companies own the media. For my part I don't trust any of them and I'm willing to support him fighting back.

---

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/12/15/exp-robert-kennedy-junior-rfk-2024-election-biden-trump-vaccines-121511aseg1-cnni-politics.cnn?cid=ios_app

He says it and then deflects it in the interview. I agree the FDA is corrupt and we need a shakeup. I do not think a career Enviromental lawyer who has a questionable past and low functioning morals would be the one to do it

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I just watched this, and all I can say to you is WOW! You are a very troubled person if you cannot acknowledge what he was trying to say both in the hit job attempt from CNN as well as the original clip that she referred to and showed.

There was no attempt to deflect anything in his answer. The CNN reporter's original premise is misleading at best, and is more accurately described as a gross misrepresentation.

So let me break it down to you in the elementary terms that you apparently require in order to understand what RFK was saying:

The whole concept of live vaccines is that you are given a small dose of the live pathogen in order to introduce your body to the pathogen, where it can then develop antibodies to fight the pathogen. SO YOU ARE EXPOSING YOUR BODY TO THE PATHOGEN - albeit a small dose. And guess what, sometimes people overreact to the vaccine. But as RFK explicity said, the overall benefit outweighs the harm to a few folks as a whole, so he is not ANTI-vax.

Just as chemo or immunotherapy kills both healthy cells as well as the cancer. Sometimes the overall benefit outweighs the harm. But for my 91 year old father, chemo is counterproductive because it will kill him before the cancer will.

This is NOT hard. And by the way, provide some specific examples of "questionable past" and "low functioning morals". All I am seeing from you is continued pot shots from the cheap seats.

---

Dude bull***** I'm taking him for what he says. You're over here doing summersaults trying to interpret. He doubles down twice stating that there are no vaccines that are both safe and effective while claiming he's not anti vaccine.

He's either too stupid to properly articulate his position or he doesn't know what his position is. Maybe the brain worm from his divorce trial took his ability to effectively communicate

---

No summersaults at all. I watched that video, too, and I saw RFK give a rational, reasonable retort to an attack accusation that took his words and twisted them into something other than what he was trying to say. He clarified in both the CNN clip, as well as the original conversation that the CNN anchor was using.

The BS is you and CNN playing another version of the "both sides" game with RFK. "That's what he said!"... while explicity ignoring everything else he said. Perhaps that's why the viewership of CNN is cratering to 25 year lows.

But you do you and continue on with the ad homs against RFK. It's obvious to me you'll see what you want to see, and there is no rational conversation beyond that.

JB99 said:

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88planoAg said:

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Most of the concerns surrounding him are overblown, imo.

But when my kids were vaccinated in the early 2000s, I remember being handed laminated sheet after sheet describing the shot, the possible problems, etc and signing that I read them. Has that changed? What would he like done instead of this?

---

Those are well known vaccines and have been around for decades. Did you get the same sheet when you got a COVID vaccines? No

Do you get a sheet when you get a flu vaccine?

There's no requirement they have to do it so it's hit or miss. I never got a sheet when my kids were vaccinated.

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Didn't get a covid shot. Had natural immunity verified by a year's worth of blood tests.

Interesting, I thought the childhood vaccine thing was a mandate and all peds had the info sheets.

88planoAg said:

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JB99 said:

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88planoAg said:

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Most of the concerns surrounding him are overblown, imo.

But when my kids were vaccinated in the early 2000s, I remember being handed laminated sheet after sheet describing the shot, the possible problems, etc and signing that I read them. Has that changed? What would he like done instead of this?

---

Those are well known vaccines and have been around for decades. Did you get the same sheet when you got a COVID vaccines? No

Do you get a sheet when you get a flu vaccine?

There's no requirement they have to do it so it's hit or miss. I never got a sheet when my kids were vaccinated.

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Didn't get a covid shot. Had natural immunity verified by a year's worth of blood tests.

Interesting, I thought the childhood vaccine thing was a mandate and all peds had the info sheets.

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As your kids get older they will start pushing the HPV vaccine. I didn't get a sheet for that either.

Kids are adults, both male, both got the HPV. I've slept since then, don't remember information about the vaccine when it was offered but can't swear it wasn't given.

But if it isn't mandated to offer that info it should be, which answers my initial post.

Are people not getting consent forms and info sheets on vaccines when they get them? I get these everywhere I've been the last 10 years at least including for my kids.

Forum Troll said:

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Are people not getting consent forms and info sheets on vaccines when they get them? I get these everywhere I've been the last 10 years at least including for my kids.

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I apologize. I was mistaken. I guess I don't remember getting a sheet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injury_Act

The followup here is why is this only limited to childhood vaccines.