BlueTaze said:

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jacketman03 said:

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BlueTaze said:

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The US also broke prior promises about not expanding NATO.

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Where did the US make any promises about not expanding NATO? Russia kept demanding that, but the US and NATO never agreed to anything like that.

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Correct there were no formal agreements, but after the breakup of Soviet Union, the GH Bush admin made compromises behind the scenes about NATO expansion. No NATO troops in East Germany, and no further expansion east. Since then, every POTUS has expanded NATO east.

There is no doubt that NATO expansion is the primary concern of Putin. There is no doubt the West was/is lobbying to bring Ukraine into NATO.

So why don't yall just say it. You want Ukraine to join NATO, so we can see who follows thru with nuke threats first, us or them?

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thats funny no proof of the claim but its true

and funny that a cold war era agreement to keep russia from invading its neighbirs is still needed because russia is invading its neighbors

nato would be dead if russia didnt invade other countries

I don't think anyone is defending Russia.

This war can head in any number of directions, many of which could be devastating for America's leadership in the world. Stop!

Fight the swamp!

Btw, with all the talk of peace in the air, I'm expecting (not) a Nobel peace prize for Trump.

BlueTaze said:

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Teslag said:

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Putin's only "concern" for NATO is that they have the power to keep him from annexing Ukraine. That's it. That's all it ever was.

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If that's the case, the coming peace deal will make no assurances against NATO expansion. Weatern Ukraine will join NATO, and Putin will get a large chunk of Eastern Ukriane. Like I said, we will soon see who is right.

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I think that's the best outcome for all sides now. And I think trump makes it happen.

The best we can hope for is an ending like the Georgia war. No NATO accession, forfeiturure of land to Russia, maybe some poltical appointments etc. I still think Ukraine gets a worse deal than what was potentially on the table in early 2022. That's a tragedy considering all the wasted funds and loss of life since then.

No way Trump backs Ukraine joining NATO, which means it will be used as a bargaining chip. Hopefully Trump blasts the EU and tells them they need to take the reins on any funding/weapons near Russian borders going forward. If Russia wants to invade Alaska, we can then pony up.

I refuse to give up on the dream of the US out of nato in a phased process with our troops coming home and let whatever is left of an actually democratic Ukraine decide to join or not.