Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, LC, Sequioa. All of them

another problem is that most Americans are too lazy and disinterested to do real research and find the best bargains.

the last four times I have bought a vehicle, I bought a one year old BMW with under 15K miles on it from dealers in Orlando, Cleveland and Charlotte.

I bargained with them to have them ship it to DC, and one time I flew to Florida and drove it back up.

spent months to find them all UNDER $40,000.

worth it!

DCAggie13y said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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DCAggie13y said:

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Sims said:

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Cars also used to get you from point a to point b.

Now the car drives itself while you watch a movie with 7.1 surround and your heated massaging seat melts your cares away.

Maybe they need a lower end vehicle that accomplishes a task in a pragmatic way.

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This is so true. I just bought a 2025 vehicle after driving my 2010 car around for 15 years. Holy hell batman, my new car practically drives itself. The technology leap is insane.

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And that is a large part of why your new car is more expensive. Luxury used to be cruise control, A/C and electric windows. Now it is a 7 speaker sound system, dynamic cruise, lane following, back up cameras, proximity sensors, high end nav systems, ability to connect with your vehicle online, heated and vented seats and steering wheels, etc.

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I'm not complaining about the price at all. I can also control my car with an app.

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It is amazing how much the new technology makes cars more enjoyable to drive and ride in unless you like the old fashion muscle cars with a manual transmission and no traction control. I get those folks too but I also love having lane following, dynamic cruise and a number of the creature comforts of newer cars.

Quote:

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It is amazing how much the new technology makes cars more enjoyable to drive and ride in unless you like the old fashion muscle cars with a manual transmission and no traction control. I get those folks too but I also love having lane following, dynamic cruise and a number of the creature comforts of newer cars.

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You haven't been a kid until you are in that third seat facing the back of the station wagon with the window down (even with A/C never got back there) stuck in traffic breathing that heavenly aroma of exhaust fumes wafting in a shimmery haze.

CDUB98 said:

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My truck is a 2013 with 161k miles. I wish I could buy a new one, but I'm too fearful of the future economic situation.

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My truck has 331k miles. I just got a tune up and it runs like it's brand new. I plan on driving it at least another 100k.

DCAggie13y said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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DCAggie13y said:

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Sims said:

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Cars also used to get you from point a to point b.

Now the car drives itself while you watch a movie with 7.1 surround and your heated massaging seat melts your cares away.

Maybe they need a lower end vehicle that accomplishes a task in a pragmatic way.

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This is so true. I just bought a 2025 vehicle after driving my 2010 car around for 15 years. Holy hell batman, my new car practically drives itself. The technology leap is insane.

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And that is a large part of why your new car is more expensive. Luxury used to be cruise control, A/C and electric windows. Now it is a 7 speaker sound system, dynamic cruise, lane following, back up cameras, proximity sensors, high end nav systems, ability to connect with your vehicle online, heated and vented seats and steering wheels, etc.

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I'm not complaining about the price at all. I can also control my car with an app.

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By definition is it a mobile app?

No Spin Ag said:

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BusterAg said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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techno-ag said:

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/cars-were-once-a-financial-engine-of-america-s-middle-class-now-they-re-a-wealth-killer/ar-AA1tXWhC

Good article. Interview with people over at Dave Ramsey's podcast series. Average new car prices approaching $50k, many payments over $1k/mo. Used car averages close to $30k. Sucking up more and more income, now a trap more so than it ever was.

Government regs don't help of course, nor does the push for electrification.

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Will tarrifs have any effect on auto prices?

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Only if you are dead-set on a BMW or Mercedes.

Japan and South Korea have low or no tariffs on US sedans, so I don't see Trump jacking up tariffs on Hondas, Toyotas, Kias, or Hyundais.

Is it really important to you to own a European car?

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Not at all. I was just asking to see what the market may look like in six months to a year when I'm looking for something new.

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Interest rates are going to go up. If you can afford cash, wait, prices will be lower. If you need to finance, maybe move sooner rather than later. If you lease, then you have bigger problems, and nothing I advise can help you.

Sea Speed said:

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BowSowy said:

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Lathspell said:

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Everyone also wants to live above their means.

Zoomers and Millennials expect the same lifestyle they experienced at the point when they left their parent's home, if they have even left. They also want status instead of living frugally:

• They want a brand new $35K+ car instead of a $12K used car, because god forbid someone isn't impressed with their ride.
• They want to live in a 1BR apartment in the nicest part of town so they can walk to nice restaurants, bars, and shopping, because god forbid they live with a few roommates.
• They want designer clothing and accessories, because god-forbid others see them as cheap.
• They want to travel and go out to party multiple times a week, because what kind of crazy world would it be if they couldn't life that extravagant weekend lifestyle?!
• They want the newest and nicest technology. A 2 Yr old iPhone is not good enough, they need to buy the latest and greatest iPhone every year.

And then they complain about life being expensive. I agree, it is more expensive than it should be. But they make it so much harder on themselves.

I've also heard people talk about not having money left over for their savings after all their expenses. What a backwards way of looking at your finances. They can't conceive of the idea that you put your money into your savings FIRST, and then look at the remainder and make your budgetary decisions.

15% of my income is taken out between 401K and my other investments before I even consider my budget for home, auto, and other expenses.

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Serious question, how many millennials do you know that are still living in the city (with roommates?), traveling all the time, and partying every weekend? I feel like your definition of millennial is stuck 10-15 years in the past, most of us late-30s and settled down with a family.

Besides, none of that has anything to do with the fact that cars are way too expensive. You just wanted to get a rant in.

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People use millennial as a catchall for essentially every person younger than they are. It's essentially used to describe anyone from 18 to 44.

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That's a pretty good description but the reality is that the break between Millennials and Gen Z is about age 27 right now.

His rant about Millennials wasn't wrong though. Except for it only applies to about half the Millennials at this point because the others are what Iliza Shlesinger calls "Elder Millennial"

We are well able to afford a new car but I'm driving a used 2019 Toyota Sequoia that I bought last year. I also still have my 2015 Sequoia with >160k miles on it; my daughter wanted it when she gets her license. Car prices are INSANE.

Teslag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Considering I typically keep cars for 10-15 years, if I could get 96 months at 0%, I'd do it in a heartbeat and you'd see me rolling a Denali.

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Ditto. Since 1989, I have had three vehicles in total. 1989 Mercedes. 2003 Trailblazer, 2017 Traverse. And the only reason I bought the Trailblazer was because we had recently purchased a lake house, that was off a dirt and gravel road and needed to haul stuff (including my Mom and her stuff) back and forth. My Mercedes was just too small. Needed the cargo room of the SUV.

I love, love, loved my Mercedes and didn't sell it quickly after I got the Trailblazer. But after several weeks of driving the Traiblazer, I had occasion to drive the Mercedes and suddenly it felt so low to the ground and so small. Finally sold it to my Mom's neighbor who had always liked it.

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I'm the complete opposite. I average a new car every 3 years or so. I replaced a 2021 Chevy 1500 with 2023 Chevy 2500 diesel in April of this year. Just replaced it with a 2024 Colorado a few weeks ago.

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As you've bragged on this forum many times before, most folks don't have your additional tax free income stream.

Drop an extra $4k in my account every month and forget about cars, I'm going straight to hookers and blow.

EMY92 said:

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javajaws said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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When you add the insurance cost to that it would end up costing more than my mortgage. The pricing is totally out of whack.

Government efficiency regulations need to be loosened
The EV push needs to stop (let it be market driven not policy driven)
Manufacturers need to stop bloating every vehicle they make (in size AND features)
Insurance industry needs....something. The costs are outrageous. I don't know what the fix here might be other than cheaper vehicles to start with.

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Why do you want manufacturers to provide things people don't want? I see that Mitsubishi is killing their little econo box that is the only new vehicle with a sticker price under $20,000 because no one is buying them.

In the US people want big vehicles, that's why everyone is making SUVs.

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Also why the BMW X3 now is the size of an old X5.
The X5 has grown larger and they even added an X7 to get into the really large SUV space.

Another great example is the Jeep Grand Wagoneer - that thing is ridiculously huge for something with a Jeep badge.

Ralph Nader was mentioned earlier and my latest example of driving car prices up is safety/nanny features that aren't necessary.

I rented a brand new Chevrolet Malibu last weekend.

The car wouldn't allow me to shift out of Park until I buckled my seatbelt.

There was an option to shift out of Park without your seatbelt buckled if you waited a really long time for the idiot light to go off. But by then, the Ax murder chasing me would have already killed me anyway.

Who was it that passed a law that all new vehicles starting in 2030 had to have a breathalyzer wired to their ignition?

California again?

BadMoonRisin said:

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Who was it that passed a law that all new vehicles starting in 2030 had to have a breathalyzer wired to their ignition?

California again?

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The tube connects to the cylinders to increase gas mileage

IIIHorn said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Who was it that passed a law that all new vehicles starting in 2030 had to have a breathalyzer wired to their ignition?

California again?

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The tube connects to the cylinders to increase gas mileage

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All a part of Newsom's Trump proofing CA.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Teslag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Considering I typically keep cars for 10-15 years, if I could get 96 months at 0%, I'd do it in a heartbeat and you'd see me rolling a Denali.

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Ditto. Since 1989, I have had three vehicles in total. 1989 Mercedes. 2003 Trailblazer, 2017 Traverse. And the only reason I bought the Trailblazer was because we had recently purchased a lake house, that was off a dirt and gravel road and needed to haul stuff (including my Mom and her stuff) back and forth. My Mercedes was just too small. Needed the cargo room of the SUV.

I love, love, loved my Mercedes and didn't sell it quickly after I got the Trailblazer. But after several weeks of driving the Traiblazer, I had occasion to drive the Mercedes and suddenly it felt so low to the ground and so small. Finally sold it to my Mom's neighbor who had always liked it.

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I'm the complete opposite. I average a new car every 3 years or so. I replaced a 2021 Chevy 1500 with 2023 Chevy 2500 diesel in April of this year. Just replaced it with a 2024 Colorado a few weeks ago.

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As you've bragged on this forum many times before, most folks don't have your additional tax free income stream.

Drop an extra $4k in my account every month and forget about cars, I'm going straight to hookers and blow.

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I've only been 100% for a couple of years. Ive been buying cars like this for way longer than that.

Yeah… I still drive an '06 Xterra. 230k miles. Two years ago I bought a F150 and hated all the bells and whistles. Ride was nice and it was a cool truck, but just overkill. Sold it and bought an '05 F250 with 60k miles just to have a truck when I need one. Have a plow on it, and it's awesome.

Just got my wife a new palisade last year and she loves it, and I can get my fix with all the tech whenever I do drive it. The auto brights and windshield wipers are pretty sweet but I could leave the rest.

Put a new engine and transmission in the xterra so hoping to get another 200k on it. Love that thing. I do wish you could get an F150 with no tech at all aside from Bluetooth. But $40-50k for the most basic f150, or similar is robbery.

That truck does not cost $10,000. The IMV 0 is a platform truck, that comes in a base configuration of $10,000 that doesn't even include air bags. Even if it came to the U.S. with this configuration it wouldn't cost you anywhere near $10,000, because the market in the U.S. can afford to pay substantially more than $10,00.

This is the $10,000 truck:

I missed this five page thread today

But I am 47 and have not had a meaningful car payment in over 20 years. There have been a couple of times that we borrowed a small amount with a low interest rate against a very large down payment. But car payments are for the most part a risk and can be a big mistake. If you are young and reading this try your best to stay away from them.

Damien Thorn said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Used Toyota for the win.

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They are good cars.

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Ahh, no, Toyota quality has been on a downturn the last 5-7 years...best car, world wide, is not a Toyota, and you all know who makes them...they also happen to be the only manufacturer that is driving down cost, increasing quality and profits and reducing the price of automobiles simultaneously...and the leader in innovation...

But then, I've never liked Toyotas in general, though they have a couple models I could be forced to buy, non are cars and definitely not sport cars. Maybe an FJ, drove one for a long weekend a few weeks ago...meh ride!

Damien Thorn said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Used Toyota for the win.

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They are good cars.

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Good cars but the Taco is quite expensive these days.

This is all according to the plan that began with "cash for clunkers"

Buy one in Thailand and have it shipped to Galveston or New Orleans for about $3000-4000. That's a quality truck for under $20k all costs combined.

CDUB98 said:

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My truck is a 2013 with 161k miles. I wish I could buy a new one, but I'm too fearful of the future economic situation.

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practically new

Or buy a 10 year old used truck with 120,000 miles and get a way better truck.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Sims said:

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Cars also used to get you from point a to point b.

Now the car drives itself while you watch a movie with 7.1 surround and your heated massaging seat melts your cares away.

Maybe they need a lower end vehicle that accomplishes a task in a pragmatic way.

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If it isn't already abundantly clear, "they" do not want people having the ability to move freely wherever they want to go.

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Probably not, they sure aren't repairing highways that often. Been on a lot of rough ones in Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado...

Smudge said:

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Yeah… I still drive an '06 Xterra. 230k miles. Two years ago I bought a F150 and hated all the bells and whistles. Ride was nice and it was a cool truck, but just overkill. Sold it and bought an '05 F250 with 60k miles just to have a truck when I need one. Have a plow on it, and it's awesome.

Just got my wife a new palisade last year and she loves it, and I can get my fix with all the tech whenever I do drive it. The auto brights and windshield wipers are pretty sweet but I could leave the rest.

Put a new engine and transmission in the xterra so hoping to get another 200k on it. Love that thing. I do wish you could get an F150 with no tech at all aside from Bluetooth. But $40-50k for the most basic f150, or similar is robbery.

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Yeah, even if you go to the dealerships around here in Phoenix and try to buy one of the semi-basic white work trucks, they will go out of their way to try not to sell you one..They've tried to tell me they are all accounted for by companies, even though I drive by the dealer everyday and see them sitting their for weeks.

I just want a halfway decent looking truck with 4x4, Am/ FM/ Bluetooth, and a Heater and A/C...Don't give a crap about electric windows, electric seats, heated/ cooled seats, heated steering wheel, leather, sunroof, big huge screen, carpet, self driving BS, or any of the soccer mom crap...

All I use a truck for is camping, hunting, fishing, and occasionally for work on a small farm we have here. Don't need a cowboy cadillac. Could even go for something just a little bigger than a Colorado with a little smaller diesel engine than the big Fords, RAMs, and Chevys...

Sea Speed said:

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BowSowy said:

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Lathspell said:

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Everyone also wants to live above their means.

Zoomers and Millennials expect the same lifestyle they experienced at the point when they left their parent's home, if they have even left. They also want status instead of living frugally:

• They want a brand new $35K+ car instead of a $12K used car, because god forbid someone isn't impressed with their ride.
• They want to live in a 1BR apartment in the nicest part of town so they can walk to nice restaurants, bars, and shopping, because god forbid they live with a few roommates.
• They want designer clothing and accessories, because god-forbid others see them as cheap.
• They want to travel and go out to party multiple times a week, because what kind of crazy world would it be if they couldn't life that extravagant weekend lifestyle?!
• They want the newest and nicest technology. A 2 Yr old iPhone is not good enough, they need to buy the latest and greatest iPhone every year.

And then they complain about life being expensive. I agree, it is more expensive than it should be. But they make it so much harder on themselves.

I've also heard people talk about not having money left over for their savings after all their expenses. What a backwards way of looking at your finances. They can't conceive of the idea that you put your money into your savings FIRST, and then look at the remainder and make your budgetary decisions.

15% of my income is taken out between 401K and my other investments before I even consider my budget for home, auto, and other expenses.

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Serious question, how many millennials do you know that are still living in the city (with roommates?), traveling all the time, and partying every weekend? I feel like your definition of millennial is stuck 10-15 years in the past, most of us late-30s and settled down with a family.

Besides, none of that has anything to do with the fact that cars are way too expensive. You just wanted to get a rant in.

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People use millennial as a catchall for essentially every person younger than they are. It's essentially used to describe anyone from 18 to 44.

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The worst millennials are the ones that will be born 5 years from now. Stupid ass kids!

No Spin Ag said:

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Hopefully Trump will be able to get prices of autos down to at least where they were at right before covid hit.

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What do you propose him to do to make auto prices go down? They have always gone up, as has housing costs and many other things. Some years a lot, some years not as much, but always up.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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Go look at prices people are paying for boats.

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Compared to the cost of the second home I bought to store it on the water, the boat was a relative bargain.

lb3 said:

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Damien Thorn said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Used Toyota for the win.

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They are good cars.

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Good cars but the Taco is quite expensive these days.

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It's also not as good as the Colorado or Frontier in 2024

AggieDruggist89 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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Agreed.

Cadillac Escalades are basically houses with home entertainment systems in them.

I mean, if you can afford it, without any problems, go for it. For me, that's high end German luxury vehicle prices, and those are much better in every way.

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Most high end german car owners are typically broke.

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FIFY

MAKE AUTOMOBILES GREAT AGAIN!!!

All the profits for the companies are in the extra package features. Its also why the are chasing the subscription model as well.