Illegals can't vote, but you cant ask people registering if they are citizens.

5,038 Views | 77 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by nai06
BluHorseShu
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Ellis Wyatt said:

I don't see anything in there that says they verify it. If a person lies, what is the verification process?

Making them provide info that may or may not be real is not verification. These states refuse to allow known dead people to be purged from their voter rolls.
Even Texas is trying to get the voter purge system right. Ohio and Virginia were purging voter records solely based on voters that had not voted in 4 years. In Texas currently, voter registration doesn't expire unless you move. So at least in Ohio and VA, I'd not be happy if I wasn't allowed to vote bc I hadn't voted in the last few elections.

Point being, the counties themselves are the ones that should be updating and verifying voter records even if the states still have an antiquated system.

In short, every state, including Texas, still is working on better systems. I'd be curious to know if a person votes and then dies....does their vote still count?
BadMoonRisin
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it sure would be easier to have more faith in free and fair elections if one party didnt constantly fight tooth-and-nail against systems and processes that are secure and reliable.

cant have voter ID laws or even immigration status checks for pete's sake.
2040huck
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LOL What an embarrassing OP.
MouthBQ98
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My concern is in states that allow registration for non citizens for local elections. Those persons could register and if they don't do so carefully and properly, I find myself wondering if a flood of improper registrations would be detected and prevented in time for this election, especially given the existing mechanisms have proven very slow to react and detect even small scale problems. The remedy is typically a court proceeding, which we have also seen introduces a very slow and untimely response and often results in judges claiming it is too late to do anything about it once voter roll errors are detected. The concern is that there is an opportunity for the level of registration errors to exceed the capacity to detect and deal with the volume in a timely manner. When some state election results could hinge on a few thousand votes difference, it could matter.
Ellis Wyatt
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BluHorseShu said:


Point being, the counties themselves are the ones that should be updating and verifying voter records even if the states still have an antiquated system.
Oh? Like Harris County? The County that made sure several red areas did not have adequate supplies for voters so they had to go elsewhere? The County that tried to use illegal drop boxes? Real guardians of democracy there.
Ellis Wyatt
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MouthBQ98 said:

My concern is in states that allow registration for non citizens for local elections. Those persons could register and if they don't do so carefully and properly, I find myself wondering if a flood of improper registrations would be detected and prevented in time for this election, especially given the existing mechanisms have proven very slow to react and detect even small scale problems.
All by design. Gaping holes in election security.

But "you can't prove it's happening!" No ***** That's exactly why democrats demand the holes be there.
nai06
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Ellis Wyatt said:

I don't see anything in there that says they verify it. If a person lies, what is the verification process?

Making them provide info that may or may not be real is not verification. These states refuse to allow known dead people to be purged from their voter rolls.
THIS IS A LONG POST BUT WORTH A READ

Just so we could all get some clarification, I called the Tarrant County Election office this morning. Here is the process they outlined which applies to all of Texas.

-When a voter registration form is submitted, the county checks it's existing rolls to see it that person already exists. This is helpful for finding multiple applications for the same person to prevent voter fraud

-They also check to make sure that person meet the qualifications like age, criminal record, etc. They have access to a lot state wide databases which they use for that process

-They next send the information from that registration form to the secretary of state who verifies if that person is a U.S. citizen

-When the SOS verifies citizenship status and notifies the county, the voter registration is confirmed, a voter ID card is issued, and that person is added or updated to the county rolls. That person can now vote anywhere in the county



But just for fun, I also made a few calls in Wisconsin because I was equally curious. When I called Kenosha County Clerk office I found out that voter registration is actually handled by the city clerk which I found interesting. Here is their process

-A voter registration form is submitted to the city clerk.

-Clerk does similar checks for eligibility, age, location criminal record, etc.

-The city clerk then checks the info against two databases, the DMV and Voter Database.

-in Wisconsin, you must show proof of citizenship to obtain a REAL ID drivers license. So this is typically the easiest way for the city clerk to verify citizenship

-If a person does not have a REAL ID DL, they can apply for a free voter photo ID card. To obtain the Voter Photo ID card they must show proof of citizenship via a passport, birth certificate, or naturalization certificate. The Voter Photo ID list is also maintained by the DMV

-once those checks have cleared, the voter registration is validated.

-Because Wisconsin allows same day registration, that process is done at the polls. This is pretty easy if they have a REAL ID because that info can be checked immediately at the polling location (they also need proof of residence. If there is any doubt or it is not immediately confirmed, that voter must cast a provisional ballot and return with their valid proof by 4pm on the following Friday.

-the other thing that is a little different is that Wisconsin does not have open polling. You must vote at your assigned polling location. If your address changes within 28 days of an election, you must vote at your previously assigned polling location. Given that city clerks are the ones that handle the voter rolls I think this is what makes the process possible. It would be too difficult to try and coordinate information across all the different cities.



Anyways, I did all of this to hopefully shed some light on the voting process. There is a lot of misinformation around it and part of that falls on election officials and part on the public. They don't have a huge budget to educate the public about the process. On the other hand, the public hasn't really been interested in the process until the last few years. Its something both groups need to work on.

But like I said before, you can always call your local office for help. They are full of hard working people that are happy to help.

Special thanks to Stephanie in the Tarrant County Election office and Laura in the Kenosha, WI city clerk office


nai06
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MouthBQ98 said:

My concern is in states that allow registration for non citizens for local elections. Those persons could register and if they don't do so carefully and properly, I find myself wondering if a flood of improper registrations would be detected and prevented in time for this election, especially given the existing mechanisms have proven very slow to react and detect even small scale problems. The remedy is typically a court proceeding, which we have also seen introduces a very slow and untimely response and often results in judges claiming it is too late to do anything about it once voter roll errors are detected. The concern is that there is an opportunity for the level of registration errors to exceed the capacity to detect and deal with the volume in a timely manner. When some state election results could hinge on a few thousand votes difference, it could matter.
I understand your concern but I don't think it's that big of an issue.

The ballot you vote on is tied to your registration. Its why when you go to vote you get the option to vote for your own city council candidates but not the neighboring city. Or when you vote for your specific state rep for your own district. Since most ballots are virtual, its pretty easy to parse out.

There are a few places that allow non citizens to vote like Burlington, VT. For the last election in May, 15,000 people cast ballots. Of those only 62 were of the noncitizen variety. Across the board, even when non citizens are allowed to vote in local elections turn out is incredibly low. In Montpelier, the noncitizen voter info can be held by a 1/2 inch binder.

Washington D.C. has 450K registered voters and of those 372 are non citizens.

Takoma Park, MD has had non citizen voting for 31 years. The election data from 2017 showed a 20% turnout by registered non citizens. That less than the 22% for citizen voters.

The non citizens

Here is a list of the places non citizens can vote in local elections.

California
  • San Francisco
  • Oakland
District of Columbia
Maryland
  • Barnesville
  • Cheverly
  • Chevy Chase Section 3
  • Garrett Park
  • Glen Echo
  • Hyattsville
  • Martin's Additions
  • Mount Rainier
  • Riverdale Park
  • Somerset
  • Takoma Park
Vermont
  • Burlington
  • Montpelier
  • Winooski
And here is a list of states where non citizens are expressly banned from voting in municipal elections

  • Alabama
  • Arizona
  • Colorado
  • Florida
  • Louisiana
  • North Dakota
  • Ohio

sources:
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States#Details_about_noncitizen_voting_in_local_elections
https://takomaparkmd.gov/newsletter/30-years-of-non-citizen-voting-in-takoma-park/
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/04/1248787453/noncitizen-voting-local-elections-vermont

 
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