K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Gordo14 said:

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For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

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Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

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Again isn't this a signal from the market to raise wages?

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I mean...you can wage raises all you want but we don't have enough talent to go around.

Corporations are fighting over the same group of people...and the others...well...they just arent qualified.

Isnt this the definition of meritocracy?

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Nope. Engineering and stem field wages have had their wages held down for decades because of foreign workers coming in who were being subsidized by the govt through the H1B program.

Had wages risen as they should have more people would have entered the field and stuck with it.

Tons of engineers left the field for higher wages elsewhere where they didn't have to put up with the BS they they got saddled with and made more money (management, finance, creating their own business, etc)

K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Gordo14 said:

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For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Again isn't this a signal from the market to raise wages?

---

I mean...you can wage raises all you want but we don't have enough talent to go around.

Corporations are fighting over the same group of people...and the others...well...they just arent qualified.

Isnt this the definition of meritocracy?

---

Not if we're a country instead of a large shopping mall with a flag. There's a reason why a ton of college grads go into the oilfield during boom times and avoid the oilfield during bad times, and that's the wages.

High wages encourage people to gravitate to certain types of jobs. Imagine how many people would go to medical school if doctors made $60k/year.

If you want more Americans to pursue STEM jobs, the last thing you should do is flood the market with cheap labor.

HumpitPuryear said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Gordo14 said:

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For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Again isn't this a signal from the market to raise wages?

---

No it isn't. STEM jobs are high-paying jobs. White kids are not going into STEM college programs and thus are not eligible for STEM jobs. This is the primary driver for foreign workers in STEM. The H1Bs and such are contributors but not the main issue. Generally its due to being mentally lazy IMO. Kids know they are going to have to study hard and work at getting a STEM degree and they don't want to put in the work.

I just hired an engineer last week. I didn't get any resumes from any generic Anglo type that met the job requirements. I got middle eastern, Hispanic, Pakistani, Indian, Asian, etc. and they were all foreign born or likely first generation. I don't have a lot of sympathy for millennials and gen Z whining about wages. They chose to take the easy route through college, if they even went to college. Now the good jobs are going to foreigners that did the work.

---

See my post above. You're missing the Forest for the trees. There's a reason people aren't going to those jobs and it's because the wages are being artificially depressed through flooding the market with foreigners. Who wants to devote the time and energy into a career field where you're going to compete against 30,000 people from Hyderabad who will work for $50k a year because they can get clean water from a tap in Casa Grande, Arizona?

Serviam said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Gordo14 said:

---

For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Again isn't this a signal from the market to raise wages?

---

No it isn't. STEM jobs are high-paying jobs. White kids are not going into STEM college programs and thus are not eligible for STEM jobs. This is the primary driver for foreign workers in STEM. The H1Bs and such are contributors but not the main issue. Generally its due to being mentally lazy IMO. Kids know they are going to have to study hard and work at getting a STEM degree and they don't want to put in the work.

I just hired an engineer last week. I didn't get any resumes from any generic Anglo type that met the job requirements. I got middle eastern, Hispanic, Pakistani, Indian, Asian, etc. and they were all foreign born or likely first generation. I don't have a lot of sympathy for millennials and gen Z whining about wages. They chose to take the easy route through college, if they even went to college. Now the good jobs are going to foreigners that did the work.

---

See my post above. You're missing the Forest for the trees. There's a reason people aren't going to those jobs and it's because the wages are being artificially depressed through flooding the market with foreigners. Who wants to devote the time and energy into a career field where you're going to compete against 30,000 people from Hyderabad who will work for $50k a year because they can get clean water from a tap in Casa Grande, Arizona?

---

You think 18 year olds aren't choosing to go into engineering because of an immigrant from Hyderabad?

K2-HMFIC said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

Gordo14 said:

---

For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Completely baseless.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Serviam said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Gordo14 said:

---

For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Again isn't this a signal from the market to raise wages?

---

No it isn't. STEM jobs are high-paying jobs. White kids are not going into STEM college programs and thus are not eligible for STEM jobs. This is the primary driver for foreign workers in STEM. The H1Bs and such are contributors but not the main issue. Generally its due to being mentally lazy IMO. Kids know they are going to have to study hard and work at getting a STEM degree and they don't want to put in the work.

I just hired an engineer last week. I didn't get any resumes from any generic Anglo type that met the job requirements. I got middle eastern, Hispanic, Pakistani, Indian, Asian, etc. and they were all foreign born or likely first generation. I don't have a lot of sympathy for millennials and gen Z whining about wages. They chose to take the easy route through college, if they even went to college. Now the good jobs are going to foreigners that did the work.

---

See my post above. You're missing the Forest for the trees. There's a reason people aren't going to those jobs and it's because the wages are being artificially depressed through flooding the market with foreigners. Who wants to devote the time and energy into a career field where you're going to compete against 30,000 people from Hyderabad who will work for $50k a year because they can get clean water from a tap in Casa Grande, Arizona?

---

You think 18 year olds aren't choosing to go into engineering because of an immigrant from Hyderabad?

---

I think 18 year olds aren't choosing to go into engineering because they see STEM flooded with immigrants depressing wages and want to make money.

Logos Stick said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Gordo14 said:

---

For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Completely baseless.

---

https://recruitingdaily.com/why-the-u-s-has-a-stem-shortage-and-how-we-fix-it-part-1/

https://www.automate.org/news/bridging-the-gap-of-stem-talent-shortage-in-advanced-manufacturing-industries

https://www.ida.org/-/media/feature/publications/C/Ch/Characterizing-the-Loss-of-Talent-From-the-US-STEM-Ecosystem/Product-3001891.pdf

You were saying?

K2-HMFIC said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Gordo14 said:

---

For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Completely baseless.

---

https://recruitingdaily.com/why-the-u-s-has-a-stem-shortage-and-how-we-fix-it-part-1/

https://www.automate.org/news/bridging-the-gap-of-stem-talent-shortage-in-advanced-manufacturing-industries

https://www.ida.org/-/media/feature/publications/C/Ch/Characterizing-the-Loss-of-Talent-From-the-US-STEM-Ecosystem/Product-3001891.pdf

You were saying?

---

Baseless. The tech companies are the ones that provide the stats and fund and feed the articles. They've claimed shortages for the past three decades. They began outsourcing in earnest around the year 2000. It's purely cost driven. The fact that you believe the shortage nonsense is not surprising at all.

Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Gordo14 said:

---

For the 1000th time, the native US labor force us shrinking because baby boomers are retiring. If the economy is doing well and needs to hire people, where should they hire from?

Legal immigration is CRITICAL for the continued growth of the US econimy. We do not want to be in a situation with more jobs than workers.

---

Did you even read the article?! This has nothing to do with boomers retiring. It's been going on for years. High tech loves the H1Bs because of cost! This is about labor cost and now, actively changing the demographics of the country. Period.

---

Because we can't find enough US born stem folks to fill the open jobs!

---

Again isn't this a signal from the market to raise wages?

---

No it isn't. STEM jobs are high-paying jobs. White kids are not going into STEM college programs and thus are not eligible for STEM jobs. This is the primary driver for foreign workers in STEM. The H1Bs and such are contributors but not the main issue. Generally its due to being mentally lazy IMO. Kids know they are going to have to study hard and work at getting a STEM degree and they don't want to put in the work.

I just hired an engineer last week. I didn't get any resumes from any generic Anglo type that met the job requirements. I got middle eastern, Hispanic, Pakistani, Indian, Asian, etc. and they were all foreign born or likely first generation. I don't have a lot of sympathy for millennials and gen Z whining about wages. They chose to take the easy route through college, if they even went to college. Now the good jobs are going to foreigners that did the work.

---

See my post above. You're missing the Forest for the trees. There's a reason people aren't going to those jobs and it's because the wages are being artificially depressed through flooding the market with foreigners. Who wants to devote the time and energy into a career field where you're going to compete against 30,000 people from Hyderabad who will work for $50k a year because they can get clean water from a tap in Casa Grande, Arizona?

---

You think 18 year olds aren't choosing to go into engineering because of an immigrant from Hyderabad?

---

I think 18 year olds aren't choosing to go into engineering because they see STEM flooded with immigrants depressing wages and want to make money.

---

Not to mention the 1-2 punch of this and white males (ideal STEM candidates) have a hard time even getting into college at all, let alone the top schools for STEM education.

Ahhh…the "numbers are wrong so I refuse to debate them" argument.

First…do you know what out sourcing is? Because it isn't a relevant piece of this argument.

Let's make sure we get your vocabulary right.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Ahhh…the "numbers are wrong so I refuse to debate them" argument.

First…do you know what out sourcing is? Because it isn't a relevant piece of this argument.

Let's make sure we get your vocabulary right.

---

We don't even need to have a debate; this is so elementary I don't know how you could make a counter argument.

How in the world would lowering the amount of H-1B visa's for tech workers make STEM jobs less attractive to actual Americans?

Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Ahhh…the "numbers are wrong so I refuse to debate them" argument.

First…do you know what out sourcing is? Because it isn't a relevant piece of this argument.

Let's make sure we get your vocabulary right.

---

Lol. Outsourcing and H1Bs are two sides of the same coin. It's about driving labor cost down. My point is that tech had more than enough labor back then but chose to outsource to reduce cost, replacing native workers. Same thing with H1Bs. Now they are being forced to bring in foreign workers because of a labor shortage. Riiiiiight!

I work in high tech, bub. I see it all the time.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

---

That makes absolutely zero sense. Your claim is that STEM jobs somehow live in this bizzarro world where lower competition and higher pay fails to attract more candidates?

Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

---

That makes absolutely zero sense. Your claim is that STEM jobs somehow live in this bizzarro world where lower competition and higher pay fails to attract more candidates?

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Jesus…I don't know how much more I can help you. But it's the same reason why we can't get Americans into the trades as opposed to stupid liberal arts degrees.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

---

That makes absolutely zero sense. Your claim is that STEM jobs somehow live in this bizzarro world where lower competition and higher pay fails to attract more candidates?

---

Jesus…I don't know how much more I can help you. But it's the same reason why we can't get Americans into the trades as opposed to stupid liberal arts degrees.

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You're not a serious person, I'm sorry. There is not a universe that exists where decreasing competition and increasing pay refuses to make something more attractive.

Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

---

That makes absolutely zero sense. Your claim is that STEM jobs somehow live in this bizzarro world where lower competition and higher pay fails to attract more candidates?

---

Jesus…I don't know how much more I can help you. But it's the same reason why we can't get Americans into the trades as opposed to stupid liberal arts degrees.

---

You're not a serious person, I'm sorry. There is not a universe that exists where decreasing competition and increasing pay refuses to make something more attractive.

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So…you refuse to believe the data about people wanting a liberal arts degree over trade school?

I mean…you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts

We've been told to try to offshore a certain % this year to certain countries.

AggieKatie2 said:

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We've been told to try to offshore a certain % this year to certain countries.

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Offshore is not the same as H1B visa.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Serviam said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

---

That makes absolutely zero sense. Your claim is that STEM jobs somehow live in this bizzarro world where lower competition and higher pay fails to attract more candidates?

---

Jesus…I don't know how much more I can help you. But it's the same reason why we can't get Americans into the trades as opposed to stupid liberal arts degrees.

---

You're not a serious person, I'm sorry. There is not a universe that exists where decreasing competition and increasing pay refuses to make something more attractive.

---

So…you refuse to believe the data about people wanting a liberal arts degree over trade school?

I mean…you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts

---

I refuse to believe any sort of data that says increasing pay and decreasing competition decreases interest.

From your argument it sounds like the way to get people to stop flocking towards liberal arts degrees is to increase the amount that jobs in the field pay.

K2-HMFIC said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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We've been told to try to offshore a certain % this year to certain countries.

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Offshore is not the same as H1B visa.

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Really?!?!? I had no clue.

AggieKatie2 said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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We've been told to try to offshore a certain % this year to certain countries.

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Offshore is not the same as H1B visa.

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Really?!?!? I had no clue.

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The term seems to be confused on this board.

Stonegateag85 said:

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Their children are smoking all of the American children in school and taking up the best STEM spots in college. They heavily prioritize top tier education over Americans.

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Agreed, but their childrens' children won't. They will regress to the mean and be sucked in and influenced by our toxic decaying culture. Times have changed. And i was speaking more with the children of the 20-something year old foreigners now immigrating in mind. Agreed 100% that the norm a for first gen has been for them to kick ass in school...for their parents almost not to allow them to have any semblance of a life outside of school. Conditioned basically to become robots, often lacking severely in the areas of real world experience and free-thinking logic and reason.

Ask any foreign doctor to think outside of the box and you get a stunned and completely confused "well that's not in the manual that they made us memorize" look. Foreign doctors were the most likely to "trust the science" and put long lasting blind faith in masks and vaccines.

All that to say...foreigners aren't smarter or more advanced/superior. They are desperately fleeing inferior sh*t countries like India and China and the ME and that desperation and sacrifice manifests as forcing their kids to have no life and focus entirely on scholastic accolades for placement in higher education. It's a "we didn't leave that sh*hole that was everything we ever knew behind so you could just be average" mentality. I will say that their cultures are immensely inferior as well.

H1B workers depress wages.
There is not enough talent in the US.
Both are be true.

If there were no H1B workers wages would be higher. But then, more jobs might move overseas.

But even entry level engineering jobs pay well, so it's hard to believe an American 18 year old is going to make a decision to not enter the field because of H1B workers.
They are far more likely to not enter STEM because its freaking hard and they have more choices available to them.

H1B workers usually come from far more competitive environments, because it's usually a matter of survival, and your choices are engineer or doctor. And you're competing with a shi$load of other people.

We are going to find out pretty quickly how smart Gen Z is, because elections have consequences and their choice for Biden four years ago has had a profound negative impact on their lives (inflation, job opportunities, personal safety, etc.)

We forego the H1 route due to the govt obligations combined with the lottery aspect. Takes about 18 months and then no guarantee your company submission will be selected.

Like I said previously, we are currently being encouraged to utilize certain countries where salary is about $.50 on the dollar for comparable staff as turnover occurs domestically. Hate it. Seems short-sighted.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Because Americans aren't as compelled to be engineers these days…they don't want that work.

We have emphasized white collar, c suite, MBA, finance work for two generations.

---

Do you live in a vacuum or Manhattan. Lots of people are interested in Engineering but its recognized as a tough academic program. Americans need to become more confident in their math skills. The money and challenges are fine.

I have a business and IT background and often wished I had stronger EE experience.

I don't want to do something sacrilegious to otherwise healthy debate on F16 but here are some interesting surveys to consider:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/01/17/half-of-americans-think-young-people-dont-pursue-stem-because-it-is-too-hard/

https://everfi.com/infographic/k-12/is-stem-interest-fading-with-students/#:~:text=Misconceptions%20and%20breaking%20misconceptions%20impact,many%20individuals%20perception%20is%20reality.

https://www.csrwire.com/press_releases/798931-not-seeing-themselves-stem-careers-48-students-dont-realize-they-are-already

There does seem to be something to the argument that Americans think its too hard and that is the primary culprit in why they don't choose STEM.

We all live in our own reality and have our own experience. So, to let you know my perspective: I am a 1st/2nd generation American. My dad was (passed away) a Mexican citizen, my mom was born here but raised in Mexico. He was the valedictorian of his veterinarian class and my mom did medical school over there. My mom decided to birth us on this side of the border for citizenship. They divorced when I was little and my mom came to the US to pursue career aspirations here. I benefited from ESL classes while my mom worked like a crazy person to financially support us as a midwife while she studied to pass the USMLEs. I have memories of her kneeling at night while studying. When I asked why, she said so that if she fell asleep, she would fall over and that would wake her up. She passed her exams and is a licensed doctor now. I graduated in the top 5% of my class while taking all the hard classes. I was recruited to A&M by some sort of diversity program and decided to go there. I took 45 hrs my freshman year, made the deans list and ordered my graduation ring at the end of the spring semester. My wife has a similar story and our kids, although little, are killing it at school. Our middle child who is about to go to kinder can read in English and Spanish and is learning his multiplication tables. He was also the fastest kid in his preschool.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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TheMasterplan said:

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They'll also work harder and be less soft than native US citizens - in general.

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For one generation maybe...and only because they are coming from unlivable hellholes with raw sewage in the streets and people pooping in open fields and would suck D to live anywhere else. Their children may work very hard as well, or they may earn a useless degree...but eventualy their bloodline conforms to the culture.

No offense to anyone here, but India and China are sh** countries....I would become a robot who worked insane hours if that was my ticket out.

---

I'm not hiring in the future, I'm hiring now and I need people who will show up on time, not call in sick after watching Sunday Night Football and drinking too late, won't $#@& off on their phone all day, ………. *


*Im not hiring anyone personally, but manager after manager I know says those things.

B-1 83 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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TheMasterplan said:

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They'll also work harder and be less soft than native US citizens - in general.

---

For one generation maybe...and only because they are coming from unlivable hellholes with raw sewage in the streets and people pooping in open fields and would suck D to live anywhere else. Their children may work very hard as well, or they may earn a useless degree...but eventualy their bloodline conforms to the culture.

No offense to anyone here, but India and China are sh** countries....I would become a robot who worked insane hours if that was my ticket out.

---

I'm not hiring in the future, I'm hiring now and I need people who will show up on time, not call in sick after watching Sunday Night Football and drinking too late, won't $#@& off on their phone all day, ………. *


*Im not hiring anyone personally, but manager after manager I know says those things.

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As a senior leader I would say you are spot on. I have sponsored engineers and US born ones. One of them works their asses off and the other is average at best. You can decide which group is which.

B-1 83 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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TheMasterplan said:

---

They'll also work harder and be less soft than native US citizens - in general.

---

For one generation maybe...and only because they are coming from unlivable hellholes with raw sewage in the streets and people pooping in open fields and would suck D to live anywhere else. Their children may work very hard as well, or they may earn a useless degree...but eventualy their bloodline conforms to the culture.

No offense to anyone here, but India and China are sh** countries....I would become a robot who worked insane hours if that was my ticket out.

---

I'm not hiring in the future, I'm hiring now and I need people who will show up on time, not call in sick after watching Sunday Night Football and drinking too late, won't $#@& off on their phone all day, ………. *


*Im not hiring anyone personally, but manager after manager I know says those things.

---

Why bother with having a nation at all? All that's needed is an economy apparently. Boomers are insufferable.

B-1 83 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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TheMasterplan said:

---

They'll also work harder and be less soft than native US citizens - in general.

---

For one generation maybe...and only because they are coming from unlivable hellholes with raw sewage in the streets and people pooping in open fields and would suck D to live anywhere else. Their children may work very hard as well, or they may earn a useless degree...but eventualy their bloodline conforms to the culture.

No offense to anyone here, but India and China are sh** countries....I would become a robot who worked insane hours if that was my ticket out.

---

I'm not hiring in the future, I'm hiring now and I need people who will show up on time, not call in sick after watching Sunday Night Football and drinking too late, won't $#@& off on their phone all day, ………. *


*Im not hiring anyone personally, but manager after manager I know says those things.

---

I want to hire the most qualified candidate. Importing software developers IS NOT CHEAP by any means for US companies. The only reason we ever did this was because we didn't have enough qualified people applying for those tech jobs. They aren't getting paid any less than we would pay someone who is from the US.

And yeah, we have a generation of entitled people who believe that they shouldn't work harder or even smarter. They just want their paycheck and leave.

Every boomer when they see "raise wages"

AColunga07 said:

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I don't want to do something sacrilegious to otherwise healthy debate on F16 but here are some interesting surveys to consider:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/01/17/half-of-americans-think-young-people-dont-pursue-stem-because-it-is-too-hard/

https://everfi.com/infographic/k-12/is-stem-interest-fading-with-students/#:~:text=Misconceptions%20and%20breaking%20misconceptions%20impact,many%20individuals%20perception%20is%20reality.

https://www.csrwire.com/press_releases/798931-not-seeing-themselves-stem-careers-48-students-dont-realize-they-are-already

There does seem to be something to the argument that Americans think its too hard and that is the primary culprit in why they don't choose STEM.

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It is hard, and that is the reason they don't choose STEM, but that's ok. Because we are an advanced country, and we have so many other career paths that can be as fulfilling.

Look, I'm not advocating that you spend 4 years studying underwater basket weaving at NYU.
But its ok that we have kids that don't pick STEM.

Given that, all my kids are engineering majors, two at TAMU. And it is extremely competitive, so there are plenty of very smart kids, picking the challenging majors.
A&M has ETAM, general engineering in year1, and then you have to get a certain GPA to get your major automatically. if you don't get the required GPA, you have to apply for your major, and might not get it.

CompSci GPA required is 3.75. Last year, 97% of CompSci majors were automatically enrolled. That's staggering.

On a somewhat related note, the push for Women in Engineering is frustrating. As with all good intentions, the end result is that we are not hiring talented engineers out of college because they are white men. I had 1 opening for which i was only sent female resumes. H1Bs workers get a pass, because they are good for "diversity".
If you are a young white male, then STEM might not be the path for you (unless you have a strong engineering, problem solving bend)