Whose fault was this? The pilot said he was cleared to cross runway 4 and that's what he was doing. Another controller then gives go ahead to take off on runway four.

Politics related because of meritless hiring now.

southwest + jetblue planes nearly collided on the runway at Reagan airport in DC today

ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff

listen to the screams in the tower

video credit: @VASAviation pic.twitter.com/RDdiwLUNl2

— Gregg Re (@gregg_re) April 18, 2024

That would have been really Really ungood.

So you understand the jibberish before he proceeded down towards four? I do not. I see him going down towards four after the jibberish and he then says he was cleared after the panic yell telling him to stop.

Thus my op.

PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

Two different radio frequencies
Ground directs taxi of the aircraft
Tower directs take off and landing

Landing into a busy class B or C airport can be quite the experience, i must say.

PA24 said:

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Two different radio frequencies
Ground directs taxi of the aircraft
Tower directs take off and landing

Landing into a busy class B or C airport can be quite the experience, i must say.

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So they don't have a clue what each other is doing? Makes no sense.

Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

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ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff.

Should read "Ground directed the southwest plane to cross where the JetBlue plane was already cleared to take off."

PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

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ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff.

Should read "Ground directed the southwest plane to cross where the JetBlue plane was already cleared to take off."

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Or "cleared for takeoff."

PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

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ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff.

Should read "Ground directed the southwest plane to cross where the JetBlue plane was already cleared to take off."

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No they were not. Not based on the audio. They were cleared after.

Did you listen to the audio?

Ground controllers are likely in the tower. Departure and arrival are not. The ground controller was at fault - SWA was cleared to cross runway 4 after the other AC was instructed to Line up and wait.

The Twitter version is shortened.

Ground tells Southwest to cross.
Tower tells Southwest to hold for traffic departing on their left. Actually this was directed at the other SW plane

Tower tells JetBlue crossing traffic is holding, cleared for takeoff.

Seems like a process to catch conflicts between ground and tower was missed or needs to exist. Both planes were following valid instructions.

Either way, something, be it personnel or procedure, needs fixing at that airport.

PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Does Ground's instructions to Southwest constitute clearance to cross Rwy 4 or was she just giving an route only? She does not explicitly say "clear to cross" like the Southwest pilot says in his read back. A possible indication from that moment that not everyone was on the same page.

Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

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ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff.

Should read "Ground directed the southwest plane to cross where the JetBlue plane was already cleared to take off."

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No they were not. Not based on the audio. They were cleared after.

Did you listen to the audio?

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JetBlue was moving toward the runway before ground gave instructions to SWA. You don't do that unless he was told to line up and wait. You can't pass hold point without permission from tower. That is either line up and wait or cleared for take off.

They're trying to hire pilots, probably won't get a lot of people if ground and the tower are going to get them killed.

PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

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ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff.

Should read "Ground directed the southwest plane to cross where the JetBlue plane was already cleared to take off."

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No they were not. Not based on the audio. They were cleared after.

Did you listen to the audio?

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JetBlue was moving toward the runway before ground gave instructions to SWA. You don't do that unless he was told to line up and wait. You can't pass hold point without permission from tower. That is either line up and wait or cleared for take off.

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So line up and wait is the same as cleared for takeoff? You said cleared for takeoff off in your original post.

Based on the audio, the cross four command came before "cleared for takeoff".

PA24 said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Does Ground's instructions to Southwest constitute clearance to cross Rwy 4 or was she just giving a route only? She does not explicitly say "clear to cross" like the Southwest pilot says in his read back. A possible indication from that moment that not everyone was on the same page.

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No, she gave him permission to cross. The ground instructions are clear when taxing and if in doubt, ask for progressive directions.

I am pilot and regularly fly into class B and C towered airports.

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That's why I asked you.

FTAG 2000 said:

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Both controllers relieved of duty after the incident.

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Now the airlines will be sued, and prices will go up.

FTAG 2000 said:

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Both controllers relieved of duty after the incident.

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Seriously?

Logos Stick said:

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So you understand the jibberish before he proceeded down towards four? I do not. I see him going down towards four after the jibberish and he then says he was cleared after the panic yell telling him to stop.

Thus my op.

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lol yes, if you're a decently experienced pilot, you understand the gibberish. That guy obviously did because he REPEATED HIS CLEARANCE. There was a screw up in the tower between two different controllers working different stations. But that was in the timing of clearance to cross runways vs takeoff clearance. No one was confused about taxi routes. You seem like you're the kind of guy who would need a lot of progressive taxis at your home airport.

PA24 said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Does Ground's instructions to Southwest constitute clearance to cross Rwy 4 or was she just giving a route only? She does not explicitly say "clear to cross" like the Southwest pilot says in his read back. A possible indication from that moment that not everyone was on the same page.

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No, she gave him permission to cross. The ground instructions are clear when taxing and if in doubt, ask for progressive directions.



I am pilot and regularly fly into class B and C towered airports.

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Gonna disagree with you on this I think (maybe I'm misinterpreting your post and we are saying the same thing). She told him to cross, he read back cleared to cross 4. He was cleared to cross 4. I am also a pilot and fly into B, C, and D airports all the time with lots of traffic, multiple runways, and confusing taxi routes. I would argue that if anything, her phraseology was a little irregular, but he was cleared to cross 4 and then told to contact tower when he got to 1.

Logos Stick said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Both controllers relieved of duty after the incident.

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Seriously?

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Usually told to line up and wait because a recent landing plane has not exit the runway but in this case the tower has JetBlue line up and wait on runway 4 and another plane line up and wait on runway 1. Nothing on either runway.

Landing and taking off priority over taxing airplanes.



My guess green tower and ground operations.

So long as DEI exists, I won''t fly.

Pinochet said:

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PA24 said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

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Does Ground's instructions to Southwest constitute clearance to cross Rwy 4 or was she just giving a route only? She does not explicitly say "clear to cross" like the Southwest pilot says in his read back. A possible indication from that moment that not everyone was on the same page.

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No, she gave him permission to cross. The ground instructions are clear when taxing and if in doubt, ask for progressive directions.



I am pilot and regularly fly into class B and C towered airports.

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Gonna disagree with you on this I think (maybe I'm misinterpreting your post and we are saying the same thing). She told him to cross, he read back cleared to cross 4. He was cleared to cross 4. I am also a pilot and fly into B, C, and D airports all the time with lots of traffic, multiple runways, and confusing taxi routes. I would argue that if anything, her phraseology was a little irregular, but he was cleared to cross 4 and then told to contact tower when he got to 1.

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…I agree, he was good to go cross 4. If he didn't understand her, he could have ask for progressive directions but he read back correctly.

Once in SAT, I was ask to line up and wait as a small plane had ask to land long. So, the landing plane extended his run out as the controller told him to make haste, make haste, make haste. A commercial was on short final and I am lined up and waiting.
He clears me for take off and tells me clear for right turn out. Not sure I was at the required 400' AGL when I turned but he sure was thankful.

Runway 1/19 is the primary runway at DCA. Perhaps ground was unaware runway 4 was also in use. It's ATC's fault, exactly how ground and tower screwed it up is the question.

FTAG 2000 said:

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Both controllers relieved of duty after the incident.

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Normal. Take statements drug test etc.

Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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PA24 said:

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Ground gave the pilot permission to cross run way 4.
Ground was at fault.

Ground is not the control tower, the control tower clears for take off and landing.

---

Why did tower give permission to take off after the plane was cleared to cross four?

So tower just ignores ground? Lol

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ATC directed the southwest plane to cross a runway where the Jetblue plane was already cleared to takeoff.

Should read "Ground directed the southwest plane to cross where the JetBlue plane was already cleared to take off."

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No they were not. Not based on the audio. They were cleared after.

Did you listen to the audio?

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JetBlue was moving toward the runway before ground gave instructions to SWA. You don't do that unless he was told to line up and wait. You can't pass hold point without permission from tower. That is either line up and wait or cleared for take off.

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So line up and wait is the same as cleared for takeoff? You said cleared for takeoff off in your original post.

Based on the audio, the cross four command came before "cleared for takeoff".

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No I didn't, I copied that line from your original post, changing only ATC to Ground.

agAngeldad said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Both controllers relieved of duty after the incident.

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Normal. Take statements drug test etc.

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Eating Gummies and they fail…but that is a different topic.