Foreverconservative said:

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I know I've seen enough I'm going to put a marker down!! Merchan doesn't get reversed after all because he'll declare a mistrial. "Oops, my bad" & they'll all do their best to blame it on the rogue Supreme Court, and using a term our great Aggiehawg loves to use, memory hole the rest.

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In some ways I am completely fine with that outcome for Now as long as it happens between now and Sept 18th.

OR.... declare a mistrial... DA Bragg files the charges again, and DJT is sitting back in court for weeks right before the election?

will25u said:

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OR.... declare a mistrial... DA Bragg files the charges again, and DJT is sitting back in court for weeks right before the election?

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That course would bring up the SOL question again. Even with the covid year of tolling. (And I still don't think that's kosher under the Constitution for a criminal matter.)

SwigAg11 said:

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Im Gipper said:

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This one?

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I do not believe there is any basis for an argument of "harmless error" under these circumstances.

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In an appeal, there must be harm, otherwise the appeal won't matter.

He is saying NY can't claim letting in all that evidence was harmless, as it was the basis for the conviction!

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In other words, could you say that impermissible evidence of this nature immediately falls under reversible error and subject to automatic mistrial?

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Reversible error is Hawg's favorite saying: you can't put the poop back in the horse. Some errors are so bad you just gotta declare a mistrial. I still doubt Merchan will give Trump an out. But I can see from a politics standpoint just granting a mistrial and saying "we all know Trump is guilty but Trump's hand picked Supreme Court has tied our hands."

aggiehawg said:

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will25u said:

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OR.... declare a mistrial... DA Bragg files the charges again, and DJT is sitting back in court for weeks right before the election?

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That course would bring up the SOL question again. Even with the covid year of tolling. (And I still don't think that's kosher under the Constitution for a criminal matter.)

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Tolling for Covid literally doesn't make sense to me. Courts were still open and it's not like the DA's office just shuttered for a year.

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Reversible error is Hawg's favorite saying: you can't put the poop back in the horse. Some errors are so bad you just gotta declare a mistrial. I still doubt Merchan will give Trump an out. But I can see from a politics standpoint just granting a mistrial and saying "we all know Trump is guilty but Trump's hand picked Supreme Court has tied our hands."

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Merchan further knows the unanimity of the verdict is a fatal flaw in the case as well. And the SCOTUS decision the other day reinforces that fact. Multiple grounds for Merchan to throw in the towel and let this case die.

Will Merchan take one of these available off-ramps? I doubt it but he might have a rare display of sanity.

Here is the Trump legal team’s letter to Judge Merchan making this point: https://t.co/e5uArR6lET

— Kingmaker - Big IF! (True) (@KingMakerFT) July 2, 2024

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In our Spaces chat last night with
@McAdooGordon
and
@shipwreckedcrew
, the subject of Trump's effort in his NY case to rely on yesterday's SCOTUS presidential immunity decision to obtain relief from the jury's verdict in that case. I commented that the effort seemed to be a stretch. Now, having read the letter to Judge Merchan, I confess I was wrong. This is a serious attempt to obtain a mistrial- not because Trump's team asserts his personal checks were "official acts" (which I erroneously assumed to be the argument), but because Judge Merchan, over Trump's lawyers' objections, allowed the prosecution to introduce evidence of Trump's official acts to support a guilty verdict with respect to private acts.

In the Supreme Court's immunity opinion, Chief Justice Roberts rejected the argument that a jury should be allowed to consider a president's immune, official conduct in deciding whether he is guilty for non-immune, private conduct. Roberts wrote that allowing official acts, immune conduct to help secure a conviction for unofficial acts, "will heighten the prospect that the President's official decisionmaking will be distorted," thereby defeating "the 'intended effect' of immunity."

In sum, by permitting the jury to consider official presidential acts by Trump in deciding his guilt or innocence for private acts, the NY court did precisely what the Supreme Court said yesterday was forbidden. Trump has a strong argument that he's entitled to a new trial in NY.

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aggiejayrod said:

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aggiehawg said:

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will25u said:

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OR.... declare a mistrial... DA Bragg files the charges again, and DJT is sitting back in court for weeks right before the election?

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That course would bring up the SOL question again. Even with the covid year of tolling. (And I still don't think that's kosher under the Constitution for a criminal matter.)

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Tolling for Covid literally doesn't make sense to me. Courts were still open and it's not like the DA's office just shuttered for a year.

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Correct. And covid did not mean DAs could not continue to file stuff electronically to make them filied in a timely manner. Arraignments could occur via zoom, etc.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Reversible error is Hawg's favorite saying: you can't put the poop back in the horse. Some errors are so bad you just gotta declare a mistrial. I still doubt Merchan will give Trump an out. But I can see from a politics standpoint just granting a mistrial and saying "we all know Trump is guilty but Trump's hand picked Supreme Court has tied our hands."

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Merchan further knows the unanimity of the verdict is a fatal flaw in the case as well. And the SCOTUS decision the other day reinforces that fact. Multiple grounds for Merchan to throw in the towel and let this case die.

Will Merchan take one of these available off-ramps? I doubt it but he might have a rare display of sanity.

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I feel like there was reversible error all over the place and (if he were smart) taking the SCOTUS off ramp let's the Dims still claim Trump was found guilty by a jury of his peers but escaped justice on a technicality. That way he's not reversed by NY appeals courts but Biden and the MSM cheerleaders still gets to trumpet how Trump was found guilty.

My thinking on this is definitely evolving.

Regarding a mistral, what about the original grand jury? Were they shown or persuaded with impermissible evidence? Should the DA be required to go back to ground zero?

drcrinum said:

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Regarding a mistral, what about the original grand jury? Were they shown or persuaded with impermissible evidence? Should the DA be required to go back to ground zero?

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That grand jury is no longer sitting. That's in the past. Cannot review that.

drcrinum said:

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Regarding a mistral, what about the original grand jury? Were they shown or persuaded with impermissible evidence? Should the DA be required to go back to ground zero?

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That is a great question that I hadn't considered! I'm assuming that different rules of grand juries would come into play.

SwigAg11 said:

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drcrinum said:

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Regarding a mistral, what about the original grand jury? Were they shown or persuaded with impermissible evidence? Should the DA be required to go back to ground zero?

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That is a great question that I hadn't considered! I'm assuming that different rules of grand juries would come into play.

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A couple of things at play here. If a mistrial, Bragg can retry under he existing indictment but that retrial would need some pretrial rulings vis a vis the immunity decision as to what would or would not be admissible.

Now in theory, Bragg could go before another grand jury to bring a superceding indictment that relates back to the time of filing of the original one. But it cannot bring new charges as those will likely be time barred. Further, people such as Hope Hicks could bring motions to quash subpoenas from the grand jury using the immunity decision. So the witneses Bragg could call could be restricted by that.

aggiehawg said:

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SwigAg11 said:

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drcrinum said:

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Regarding a mistral, what about the original grand jury? Were they shown or persuaded with impermissible evidence? Should the DA be required to go back to ground zero?

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That is a great question that I hadn't considered! I'm assuming that different rules of grand juries would come into play.

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A couple of things at play here. If a mistrial, Bragg can retry under he existing indictment but that retrial would need some pretrial rulings vis a vis the immunity decision as to what would or would not be admissible.

Now in theory, Bragg could go before another grand jury to bring a superceding indictment that relates back to the time of filing of the original one. But it cannot bring new charges as those will likely be time barred. Further, people such as Hope Hicks could bring motions to quash subpoenas from the grand jury using the immunity decision. So the witneses Bragg could call could be restricted by that.

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What are the odds that it would even be Merchan AGAIN who would oversee a new grand jury? There cannot be too many more judges as favorable to the prosecution as him in that district.

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What are the odds that it would even be Merchan AGAIN who would oversee a new grand jury? There cannot be too many more judges as favorable to the prosecution as him in that district.

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Likely. He would still preside over the retrial, if any, providing he is still on the bench, that is. he was appointed to this case the first time, would probably be appointed for the retrial.

🚨BREAKING: I have filed suit against the State of New York for hijacking the presidential election by illegally scheming to jail their presidential opponent, President Trump.

New York is waging war on American Democracy — and Missouri will not let it stand.

THREAD: pic.twitter.com/PYS2pAff8n

— Attorney General Andrew Bailey (@AGAndrewBailey) July 3, 2024

I am asking the Supreme Court to declare that New York’s actions unlawfully interfere with the presidential election, to remove any gag orders against President Trump, and to halt the impending sentencing until after the presidential election. pic.twitter.com/MSnmHzJkSj

— Attorney General Andrew Bailey (@AGAndrewBailey) July 3, 2024

Right now, Missouri has a huge problem with New York.

— Attorney General Andrew Bailey (@AGAndrewBailey) July 3, 2024

MORE HERE: https://t.co/51NmTSFfE9

— Attorney General Andrew Bailey (@AGAndrewBailey) July 3, 2024

LOL.

Complete waste of Missouri taxpayer money. I would not be surprised if New York seeks sanctions for the filing of a frivolous petition on the basis of Missouri's obvious lack of standing.

I'm not even an attorney and I would love for them to take NY to pound town, but even I can see that this will be dismissed based on standing. Political grandstanding at best.

I am asking the Supreme Court to declare that New York’s actions unlawfully interfere with the presidential election, to remove any gag orders against President Trump, and to halt the impending sentencing until after the presidential election. pic.twitter.com/MSnmHzJkSj

— Attorney General Andrew Bailey (@AGAndrewBailey) July 3, 2024

Original Jurisdiction.

Original Jurisdiction.

Well well well ...

Been pounding the pulpit on this very issue for more than a year now.

Let's go to commercial break while we check the tape.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Complete waste of Missouri taxpayer money. I would not be surprised if New York seeks sanctions for the filing of a frivolous petition on the basis of Missouri's obvious lack of standing.

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Agreed. America should just sit back and watch one political party jail their opponents for no reason.

[again]

The fact that the USSC has dicked the dog on their constitutional duty until 124-days before the election shocks the conscience.

It really does.

Sat on their hands for 3.5 years, failing to do their constitutional duty of keeping the ship off the rocks.

Kept us waiting in suspense for the big reveal like we on a re-run of Trading Spaces.

The octogenarians driving the bus have dozed off.

They drifting into the rumble strips at 3am as we all sit helpless in the back of the bus next to the chemical toilet.

The wise Latina cries alone in her office.

Katanjii struggles with what a woman is.

The ridiculous seal team 6 example makes it's way into a printed opinion.

The steps of the court blocked off by crowd control barriers and the supreme court leaker runs rampant as we argue over the orientation of a flag outside Thomas's beach house.

What a time to be alive!

2024 is everything it was cracked up to be!

Ellis Wyatt said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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Complete waste of Missouri taxpayer money. I would not be surprised if New York seeks sanctions for the filing of a frivolous petition on the basis of Missouri's obvious lack of standing.

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Agreed. America should just sit back and watch one political party jail their opponents for no reason.

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Standing has been such a cowardly excuse. The standing is OBVIOUS that if PA sends improperly appointed electors who help to skew the outcome: every citizen and state in the nation is impacted. Just like here: if Trump is gagged and improperly forced into court and fleeced - his ability to campaign is harmed which may well result to harm to those with a vested interest in his presidency.

Robert's & co. are being hyper political when they avoid calling balls & strikes. The game will obviously devolve into a fistfight without an ump!

TXAggie2011 said:

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Complete waste of Missouri taxpayer money. I would not be surprised if New York seeks sanctions for the filing of a frivolous petition on the basis of Missouri's obvious lack of standing.

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Doing nothing is working so well for Republicans. We should just continue complaining.

Hawg, I thought of everyone here when I heard this today.

I have no idea if anyone here thinks Guiliani is good, bad, or indifferent. After listening, I suspect it's quite accurate. His thoughts on the NYC judicial system is almost certainly accurate.

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https://rumble.com/v55cg58-rudy-giuliani-exposes-the-corruption-of-our-justice-system-and-the-real-rea.html

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He gives a 60 second recitation on Engeron and Merchan. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of politicking.

Trump in jail yet?

You've been assuring us it was "any day now" for over a year.

Im Gipper said:

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Trump in jail yet?

You've been assuring us it was "any day now" for over a year.

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BREAKING NEWS in Donald Trump
case in New York:
Alvin Bragg and Judge Merchan ordered to respond. Read the latest on the case. The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the briefs and responses!

Leticia James will have to respond by rules of the court long before Merchan can… pic.twitter.com/0KHveKzfOi

— Treniss J. Evans III (@CondemnedUSA) July 6, 2024

Have no idea what is going on there. Is it about the gag order?

Whats going on here with this and who or what is Condemned usa?

JFABNRGR said:

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Whats going on here with this and who or what is Condemned usa?

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This is in the 5th Circuit? Suing the NY trial court? Have to confess never heard of such a procedure before.

Very confused.

If I'm reading it right, is that guy Evans suing Bragg and Co. through the 5th circuit?