Any news on the lunch order?

KatyAggie2000 said:

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Let's assume hung jury. How long will the judge send them back to continue deliberating to try and break the holdout(s)?

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Totally depends on the judge. Normally you would see once, maybe twice at the most.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Any news on the lunch order?

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Maybe they'll have a runaway jury situation where they'll have to be taken out to lunch at a New Orleans Fish restaurant.

f at any time after the trial jury has been sworn and before the rendition of its verdict, a juror is unable to continue serving by reason of illness or other incapacity, or for any other reason is unavailable for continued service, or the court finds, from facts unknown at the time of the selection of the jury, that a juror is grossly unqualified to serve in the case or has engaged in misconduct of a substantial nature, but not warranting the declaration of a mistrial, the court must discharge such juror. If an alternate juror or jurors are available for service, the court must order that the discharged juror be replaced by the alternate juror whose name was first drawn and called, provided, however, that if the trial jury has begun its deliberations, the defendant must consent to such replacement. Such consent must be in writing and must be signed by the defendant in person in open court in the presence of the court. If the discharged juror was the foreperson, the court shall designate as the new foreperson the juror whose name was second drawn and called. If no alternate juror is available, the court must declare a mistrial pursuant to subdivision three of section 280.10.

https://casetext.com/statute/consolidated-laws-of-new-york/chapter-criminal-procedure/part-2-the-principal-proceedings/title-j-prosecution-of-indictments-in-superior-courts-plea-to-sentence/article-270-jury-trial-formation-and-conduct-of-jury/section-27035-trial-jury-discharge-of-juror-replacement-by-alternate-juror


So Team Trump must consent to any alternate juror, or mistrial.

HTownAg98 said:

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KatyAggie2000 said:

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Let's assume hung jury. How long will the judge send them back to continue deliberating to try and break the holdout(s)?

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Totally depends on the judge. Normally you would see once, maybe twice at the most.

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Can he force them to deliberate over the weekend or is it automatic recess until Monday? I could see him using weekend deliberation as leverage to try and influence.

Hawg.

What is your honest opinion and assessment of this judge and how he has handled his trial?

annie88 said:

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Hawg.

What is your honest opinion and assessment of this judge and how he has handled his trial?

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She loves him and thinks SCOTUS is a good next step for him!

Im Gipper said:

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f at any time after the trial jury has been sworn and before the rendition of its verdict, a juror is unable to continue serving by reason of illness or other incapacity, or for any other reason is unavailable for continued service, or the court finds, from facts unknown at the time of the selection of the jury, that a juror is grossly unqualified to serve in the case or has engaged in misconduct of a substantial nature, but not warranting the declaration of a mistrial, the court must discharge such juror. If an alternate juror or jurors are available for service, the court must order that the discharged juror be replaced by the alternate juror whose name was first drawn and called, provided, however, that if the trial jury has begun its deliberations, the defendant must consent to such replacement. Such consent must be in writing and must be signed by the defendant in person in open court in the presence of the court. If the discharged juror was the foreperson, the court shall designate as the new foreperson the juror whose name was second drawn and called. If no alternate juror is available, the court must declare a mistrial pursuant to subdivision three of section 280.10.

https://casetext.com/statute/consolidated-laws-of-new-york/chapter-criminal-procedure/part-2-the-principal-proceedings/title-j-prosecution-of-indictments-in-superior-courts-plea-to-sentence/article-270-jury-trial-formation-and-conduct-of-jury/section-27035-trial-jury-discharge-of-juror-replacement-by-alternate-juror


So Team Trump must consent to any alternate juror, or mistrial.

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Hmmm. So if there is serious juror misconduct, Trump would have to agree to allow them to be replaced or the judge has to declare a mistrial? I would guess the chance of Trump allowing replacement is slightly less than 0%.

HTownAg98 said:

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KatyAggie2000 said:

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Let's assume hung jury. How long will the judge send them back to continue deliberating to try and break the holdout(s)?

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Totally depends on the judge. Normally you would see once, maybe twice at the most.

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While I agree that Allen charges are usually given at least once, that also depends on how long they were deliberating before telling the court they were deadlocked.

Although some states do not allow Allen charges, NY apparently does allow them.

aggiehawg said:

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Notably, the Enron cases were in federal court which do allow jury instructions to be n the deliberation room.

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Gosh, Enron seems like such a long time ago now doesn't it? when I was working at Ernst & Young they were one of our biggest clients, I was in the management consulting division not accounting, but right before the fur flew.

A few years later when I worked for the greater Houston partnership, I was once over there taking a picture of their trading room for a magazine cover, and it was so crazy in there with people and activity. I was actually in a few meetings with Ken Lay, who was such a tiny man in person and very quiet. Little did we know what was about to happen?

aggiehawg said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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KatyAggie2000 said:

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Let's assume hung jury. How long will the judge send them back to continue deliberating to try and break the holdout(s)?

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Totally depends on the judge. Normally you would see once, maybe twice at the most.

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While I agree that Allen charges are usually given at least once, that also depends on how long they were deliberating before telling the court they were deadlocked.

Although some states do not allow Allen charges, NY apparently does allow them.

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I wouldn't be surprised if this judge tried to change out the jurors just to get one to vote guilty.

annie88 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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KatyAggie2000 said:

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Let's assume hung jury. How long will the judge send them back to continue deliberating to try and break the holdout(s)?

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Totally depends on the judge. Normally you would see once, maybe twice at the most.

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While I agree that Allen charges are usually given at least once, that also depends on how long they were deliberating before telling the court they were deadlocked.

Although some states do not allow Allen charges, NY apparently does allow them.

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I wouldn't be surprised if this judge tried to change out the jurors just to get one to vote guilty.

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Apparently, Trump would have to agree to this or mistrial. Thus, I don't see this as plausible.

Zeke1995 said:

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I've had this same thought too. If I recall correctly, aren't alternate jurors usually cut loose after the closing arguments have been completed and the case is sent to the jury?

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Depends on what you mean by "cut loose". They're still alternates and have to be available to replace a juror that is potentially dismissed. Whether that means they have to stay at the courthouse during deliberations or are allowed to go home I don't know.

What reaction if the State of New York pulls out all the stops, comes this far and fails to convict Trump in one of the most liberal counties in the US?

A ton of back biting and recriminations and claims that the deck is stacked against justice and that the FedGov needs more power.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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What reaction if the State of New York pulls out all the stops, comes this far and fails to convict Trump in one of the most liberal counties in the US?

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They'll just say a maga guy snuck into the jury or that Trump bribed jurors. Liberals will twist anything to win in their minds.

I've heard of an Alford plea. I don't know about an Allen plea.

txags92 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Any news on the lunch order?

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11 jurors requested kale salad and 1 requested prime rib.

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No taco bowl?

This ain't looking good.

aggiehawg said:

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annie88 said:

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Hawg.

What is your honest opinion and assessment of this judge and how he has handled his trial?

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If I told you what I honestly think about this judge I'd be added to another list somewhere.

Let me just say I'm not a fan and leave it at that.

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Not a real judge

I'm guessing any resistance or peaceful protests to a potential conviction will be an insurrection & terroristic, correct?

Any protests/riots from libtards from a possible acquittal will be celebrated & encouraged right?

Potential gloating from the oatmeal head in chief? Totally cool?

txags92 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Any news on the lunch order?

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11 jurors requested kale salad and 1 requested prime rib.

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Found the holdout.

annie88 said:

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I've heard of an Alford plea. I don't know about an Allen plea.

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It is not a plea, it is a jury charge from the judge. When a jury is deadlocked, the judge can order them to go back into deliberation.

Quote:

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An Allen charge asks jurors in the minority to consider the reasonableness of their views and to take the views of other jurors into account with a disposition toward being convinced.

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LINK

As I indicated earlier, some states do not allow Allen charges as they are viewed as a judicial intervention into the sacred duty for the jury to make their determinations absent interference from the judge. Twenty two states, to be exact. NY and Texas allow them.

aggiehawg said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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KatyAggie2000 said:

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Let's assume hung jury. How long will the judge send them back to continue deliberating to try and break the holdout(s)?

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Totally depends on the judge. Normally you would see once, maybe twice at the most.

---

While I agree that Allen charges are usually given at least once, that also depends on how long they were deliberating before telling the court they were deadlocked.

Although some states do not allow Allen charges, NY apparently does allow them.

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Do Allen charges even work? Seems like they're just extra instructions asking hold-outs "pretty please, with a cherry on top?!".

Plus, what is the point of giving them more than once?

I believe this is it.

https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/1-General/CJI2d.Deadlocked_Jury.pdf

Im Gipper said:

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f at any time after the trial jury has been sworn and before the rendition of its verdict, a juror is unable to continue serving by reason of illness or other incapacity, or for any other reason is unavailable for continued service, or the court finds, from facts unknown at the time of the selection of the jury, that a juror is grossly unqualified to serve in the case or has engaged in misconduct of a substantial nature, but not warranting the declaration of a mistrial, the court must discharge such juror. If an alternate juror or jurors are available for service, the court must order that the discharged juror be replaced by the alternate juror whose name was first drawn and called, provided, however, that if the trial jury has begun its deliberations, the defendant must consent to such replacement. Such consent must be in writing and must be signed by the defendant in person in open court in the presence of the court. If the discharged juror was the foreperson, the court shall designate as the new foreperson the juror whose name was second drawn and called. If no alternate juror is available, the court must declare a mistrial pursuant to subdivision three of section 280.10.

https://casetext.com/statute/consolidated-laws-of-new-york/chapter-criminal-procedure/part-2-the-principal-proceedings/title-j-prosecution-of-indictments-in-superior-courts-plea-to-sentence/article-270-jury-trial-formation-and-conduct-of-jury/section-27035-trial-jury-discharge-of-juror-replacement-by-alternate-juror


So Team Trump must consent to any alternate juror, or mistrial.

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Do they take the mistrial, or roll the dice on the jury hanging? I think I take the mistrial and remove the "convicted felon Donald Trump" possibility. I can't see them running this again before the election.

jetch17 said:

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I'm guessing any resistance or peaceful protests to a potential conviction will be an insurrection & terroristic, correct?

Any protests/riots from libtards from a possible acquittal will be celebrated & encouraged right?

Potential gloating from the oatmeal head in chief? Totally cool?

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Good point, they probably need to rouse him out of bed, pop in that 8 ball and get him ready for the "Convicted Felon Donald Trump" speech from the Oval office tonight.

Quote:

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Twenty two witnesses testified in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial. Prosecutors called 20 witnesses over 19 days in court, totaling over 50 hours of testimony.
Defense attorneys called two witnesses over two days, with around two hours of testimony.
Trump's ex-attorney and fixer Michael Cohen, adult film actress Stormy Daniels and former White House aide Hope Hicks were among the high-profile witnesses.
Here's who the jury heard from throughout the trial:
[ol]

David Pecker the former CEO of American Media Inc., the National Enquirer's parent company was the first witness called to testify. After more than 10 hours of testimony across four days, he offered illuminating details into how the infamous tabloid operated and conducted so-called "catch and kill" operations.

Rhona Graff, Trump's longtime assistant at the Trump Organization, was called to testify briefly on April 26.

Gary Farro, the former banker of Cohen, walked the jury through Cohen's bank activity around the payment to Daniels.

Dr. Robert Browning, the executive director of C-SPAN archives, was called so prosecutors could use his testimony to get records into evidence.

Phillip Thompson, a director at a court reporting company, testified about how depositions work.

Keith Davidson, the former lawyer for model and actress Karen McDougal as well as for Daniels, was on the stand for nearly six hours over two days.

Douglas Daus works for the Manhattan District Attorney's High Technology Analysis Unit, and was assigned to analyze two iPhones that belonged to Cohen in the investigation related to Trump. They were obtained via a search warrant. Daus testified about the "unusual" amount of contacts and other things he found on Cohen's phone.

Hope Hicks, Trump's longtime former aide, testified for a little less than three hours about her role as Trump's 2016 campaign press secretary, the aftermath of the "Access Hollywood" tape release and Cohen's payment to Daniels.

Jeffrey McConney, a former Trump Organization controller, testified about how Cohen's payments were listed in Trump's financial documents.

Deborah Tarasoff, the accounts payable supervisor in the accounting department at the Trump Organization, explained how checks were cut to Cohen in 2017 and testified that invoices over $10,000 had to be approved by Trump or one of his sons.

Sally Franklin, the senior vice president and executive managing editor for Penguin Random House publishing group, testified for 46 minutes. Prosecutors used her testimony to enter excerpts from Trump's books into evidence.

Stormy Daniels, who's at the center of the hush money case, was on the stand for six hours and 10 minutes over two days of testimony. Daniels walked the jury through details about her alleged sexual encounter with Trump in 2006 and the $130,000 hush money payment from Trump's ex-attorney Michael Cohen shortly before the 2016 election. Trump attorney Susan Necheles hammered down on Daniels in cross-examination to establish some of the ways she gained publicity and money from her story going public.

Rebecca Manochio, a junior bookkeeper at the Trump Organization, testified for about 35 minutes. The prosecution used Manochio to submit invoices, documents and emails as evidence.

Tracey Menzies, the senior vice president of production and creative operations at Harper Collins, spoke about one of the books Donald Trump co-authored, "Think Big: Make It Happen in Business and Life," by Trump and Bill Zanker and read excerpts from the book.

Madeleine Westerhout, a former personal assistant to Trump at the White House, detailed how the president preferred to work, his attention to detail and the reaction to the "Access Hollywood" tape.

Daniel Dixon, an AT&T lead compliance analyst. He was used to enter phone records into evidence.

Jennie Tomalin, Verizon senior analyst in executive relations, was also called to the stand to enter evidence into the records.

Georgia Longstreet, who testified on May 3 and May 10, gave evidence about social media posts and text messages.

Jaden Jarmel-Schneider, another paralegal from the Manhattan district attorney's office, testified about analyzing phone records entered into evidence on May 10.

Michael Cohen, Trump's personal attorney, is at the center of the hush money payment, and hence, was a key witness for the prosecution.

Daniel Sitko, a paralegal in Trump attorney Todd Blanche's law firm, was the defense's first witness and submitted a phone chart into evidence.

Robert Costello, an attorney connected with Michael Cohen, was the second defense witness and testified about the alleged pressure campaign against Cohen.

[/ol]

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Quote:

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Through witness testimony and exhibits, prosecutors tried to prove during the trial that Donald Trump falsified business records to cover up hush money payments made to prevent adult film star Stormy Daniels' claim of an affair with Trump from becoming public before the 2016 presidential election.
During closing arguments, the defense sought to poke holes in the testimony of the prosecution's key witness, Michael Cohen, and maintained that the former president is innocent. Now the decision of whether to convict Trump is in the hands of 12 jurors.
Here's a timeline CNN compiled of key events at the center of the hush money case that prosecutors walked the jury through during the trial:

• August 2015: Trump meets with then-American Media Inc. CEO David Pecker at Trump Tower, prosecutors say, where Pecker agrees to be the "eyes and ears" for Trump's campaign and flag any negative stories to Trump's then-fixer Michael Cohen.
• September 2016: Trump discusses a $150,000 hush money payment understood to be for former Playboy model Karen McDougal with Michael Cohen, who secretly records the conversation. McDougal has alleged she had an extramarital affair with Trump beginning in 2006, which he has denied.
• October 7, 2016: The Washington Post releases an "Access Hollywood" video from 2005 in which Trump uses vulgar language to describe his sexual approach to women with show host Billy Bush.
• October 27, 2016: According to prosecutors, Cohen pays Daniels $130,000 through her attorney via a shell company in exchange for her silence about an affair she allegedly had with Trump in 2006. This $130,000 sum is separate from the $150,000 paid to McDougal. Trump has publicly denied having any affairs and has denied making the payments.
• November 8, 2016: Trump secures the election to become the 45th President of the United States.
• February 2017: Prosecutors say Cohen meets with Trump in the Oval Office to confirm how he would be reimbursed for the hush money payment Cohen fronted to Daniels. Under the plan, Cohen would send false invoices requesting payment for legal services he performed pursuant to a retainer agreement and receive monthly checks for $35,000 for a total of $420,000 to cover the payment, his taxes and a bonus, prosecutors alleged. Prosecutors also allege there was never a retainer agreement.
• January 2018: The Wall Street Journal breaks news about the hush money payment Cohen made to Daniels in 2016.

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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jetch17 said:

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I'm guessing any resistance or peaceful protests to a potential conviction will be an insurrection & terroristic, correct?

Any protests/riots from libtards from a possible acquittal will be celebrated & encouraged right?

Potential gloating from the oatmeal head in chief? Totally cool?

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Good point, they probably need to rouse him out of bed, pop in that 8 ball and get him ready for the "Convicted Felon Donald Trump" speech from the Oval office tonight.

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Probably pre-recording it now.

TexAg1987 said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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jetch17 said:

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I'm guessing any resistance or peaceful protests to a potential conviction will be an insurrection & terroristic, correct?

Any protests/riots from libtards from a possible acquittal will be celebrated & encouraged right?

Potential gloating from the oatmeal head in chief? Totally cool?

---

Good point, they probably need to rouse him out of bed, pop in that 8 ball and get him ready for the "Convicted Felon Donald Trump" speech from the Oval office tonight.

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Probably pre-recording it now.

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With 20+ jump cuts

aggiehawg said:

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annie88 said:

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I've heard of an Alford plea. I don't know about an Allen plea.

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It is not a plea, it is a jury charge from the judge. When a jury is deadlocked, the judge can order them to go back into deliberation.

Quote:

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An Allen charge asks jurors in the minority to consider the reasonableness of their views and to take the views of other jurors into account with a disposition toward being convinced.

---

LINK

As I indicated earlier, some states do not allow Allen charges as they are viewed as a judicial intervention into the sacred duty for the jury to make their determinations absent interference from the judge. Twenty two states, to be exact. NY and Texas allow them.

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Oh OK thanks. Sorry I didn't read the earlier post correctly. It was a little confused.