Malibu said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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With respect, I disagree. With alzheimers you die twice. The first time is when youre no longer you, and require 24/7 care living in a fugue state. The second is when your meatsack stops working. I have no interest in having whatever estate I have left going to line the pockets of a memory care facility instead of going to my heirs and charity while we wait for my meatsack to die. After I have died the first time, it is my express wish to be euthanized.

I have a front row seat as a conservator / guardian to a family member with dementia this year, and my wife is fully on board with this for me.

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I watched my grandmother slowly die over 8 years with Alzheimer's, just an awful disease to watch slowly take someone that you love….when she died, I didn't shed a tear as she was dead long before.

Pro Sandy said:

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Malibu said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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With respect, I disagree. With alzheimers you die twice. The first time is when youre no longer you, and require 24/7 care living in a fugue state. The second is when your meatsack stops working. I have no interest in having whatever estate I have left going to line the pockets of a memory care facility instead of going to my heirs and charity while we wait for my meatsack to die. After I have died the first time, it is my express wish to be euthanized.

I have a front row seat as a conservator / guardian to a family member with dementia this year, and my wife is fully on board with this for me.

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My father in law committed suicide last year. He had Schizophrenia. The last year of his life was very rough. The past year since his death, we aren't better for it. His wife suffers from nightmares every night. My wife is still struggling with it as she was on the phone with her mom when she found him. The grandkids are struggling. And I am struggling. We aren't better for his suicide.

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Apples to Legos comparison.

And sorry for your loss.

100% support premeditated suicide/euthanasia re: Alzheimers.

Hyper-malignant cancer is a cakewalk compared to dealing with Alzheimers.

Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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Have you watched sometime mentally deteriorate to the point they're in a permanent state of confusion and can't even do the most basic of tasks for themselves over the course of a decade or so?

rocky the dog said:

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Another leftist hoax. He will take the poison but will not die. Why? Everyone knows that Swiss poison has holes in it.

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Very well played!

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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Have you watched sometime mentally deteriorate to the point they're in a permanent state of confusion and can't even do the most basic of tasks for themselves over the course of a decade or so?

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yep.

Alzheimer's is what broke my faith in the purpose or value of any religion.

C@LAg said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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Have you watched sometime mentally deteriorate to the point they're in a permanent state of confusion and can't even do the most basic of tasks for themselves over the course of a decade or so?

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yep.

Alzheimer's is what broke my faith in the purpose or value of any religion.

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Why? Prayers can be sent up. When the answer is no? You lose your faith.

aggiehawg said:

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C@LAg said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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Have you watched sometime mentally deteriorate to the point they're in a permanent state of confusion and can't even do the most basic of tasks for themselves over the course of a decade or so?

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yep.

Alzheimer's is what broke my faith in the purpose or value of any religion.

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Why? Prayers can be sent up. When the answer is no? You lose your faith.

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religion is a personal thing. I do not begrudge anyone their faith in whatever they chose to believe in.

I would expect the feeling to be reciprocated.

First, I am so sorry to hear about your father and your loss. Theres nothing about his diagnosis and passing that isnt a tragedy for him, you, and your whole family. I can only infer, but Im guessing the days before his passing were not easy, but your family did their utmost to love and support your father. May you and your family have peace.

Its hard for this to not be personal, but, I beleive that we have the right to choose when our life is no longer living, but just permanent suffering or decay until death. I do not begrudge those who decide, with forsight and in consultation with loved ones, the time and dignity of their own end.

I think it is selfish to think that you have the right to end your life as you see fit. We are much more than just an individual and your decisions impact more than just yourself.

Logos Stick said:

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If that is what's on his mind and his last wish, what an empty, sad, pathetic life.

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Nailed it.

Pro Sandy said:

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I think it is selfish to think that you have the right to end your life as you see fit. We are much more than just an individual and your decisions impact more than just yourself.

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This does in fact cut both ways. Is it not selfish to force a loved one to continue existing, in extreme pain or absent the memories that make their existence, at a significant financial, physical, and family cost of your caretaking, against their wishes, to save you from your pain?

You are free to make your choices with your family in a way that makes sense to you. Please allow for a world where others would make different choices, and whose families honor and accept those choices. Neither is the "right way", as there is no right way.

Phatbob said:

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I will never understand why some people are so impatient to see what hell is like.

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He's seen what hell is like when he saw his mother die of Alzheimer's.

Quote:

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In reply to ABATTBQ11
Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family

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Yeah, it was much easier on my wife having her grandmother not recognize her and often screaming at her calling her a slvt, thief, attacker, etc. all the while causing a massive financial and emotional burden on her parents

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Well in this case, it's because Alzheimer's is a ***** and he doesn't want everyone he knows and loves to be brought down with him. For a lot of people with those kinds of degenerative diseases, they don't want to be a burden to their friends and families and they want their loved ones to remember them as they lived, not as someone who wasted away until their body finally gave up.

ETA Hell, I couldn't put my kids through that. My wife saw her great grandfather go through it, and it was pretty terrible. It really hurt everyone in her family too see him like that for years until he finally passed.

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I doubt this guy and I agree on much of anything, politically, but he is obviously very bright, accomplished, and articulate.

I will almost certainly read the book, just to get a glimpse into the thought processes that led him to this decision.

Bird Poo said:

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there is not one single mention of God or the afterlife in that entire article.

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Why should there be? his beliefs are obviously otherwise.

From an earthly perspective, you are correct. No reason for there to be.

Unfortunately for him, he will find out the truth sometime starting Thursday.

FrioAg 00 said:

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Unfortunately for him, he will find out the truth sometime starting Thursday.

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Or he will just cease to exist, and never receive conscious confirmation that he was right.

Antoninus said:

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Bird Poo said:

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there is not one single mention of God or the afterlife in that entire article.

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Why should there be? his beliefs are obviously otherwise.

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Antoninus said:

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FrioAg 00 said:

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Unfortunately for him, he will find out the truth sometime starting Thursday.

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Or he will just cease to exist, and never receive conscious confirmation that he was right.

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i feel that way about certain posters.

aggiehawg said:

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C@LAg said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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Have you watched sometime mentally deteriorate to the point they're in a permanent state of confusion and can't even do the most basic of tasks for themselves over the course of a decade or so?

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yep.

Alzheimer's is what broke my faith in the purpose or value of any religion.

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Why? Prayers can be sent up. When the answer is no? You lose your faith.

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Not only is the answer no, but it's "**** you, I'm going to make it worse and it's going to be slow and painful and there's nothing you can do to make it better. I co-write a song with Garth Brooks in the 90s to explain how this work after he had that affair"

Seems like a just guy.

Step up and take the crap life throws you. Those of you who want suicide will never know your dementia riddled wish was trumped by family who stepped up.

Malibu said:

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This does in fact cut both ways. Is it not selfish to force a loved one to continue existing, in extreme pain or absent the memories that make their existence, at a significant financial, physical, and family cost of your caretaking, against their wishes, to save you from your pain?

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If my wife wanted to commit suicide because she was depressed, love would not say to let her make her own choice. If she got alzheimers, love would say to care for her not kill her. Love is why we mourn my father in laws death, heaven is the only reason we can celebrate it. Love doesn't kill.

We're not talking about putting down people with Alzheimer's. This is a choice of the person with Alzheimer's and frankly it's better than finding grandpa on the couch with his brains on the floor like happened to a friend of mine the day they came to take him to a assisted care facility

FIDO*98* said:

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We're not talking about putting down people with Alzheimer's. This is a choice of the person with Alzheimer's and frankly it's better than finding grandpa on the couch with his brains on the floor like happened to a friend of mine the day they came to take him to a assisted care facility

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medical assisted suicide dehumanizing people, even those with alzheimers. Suicide is still taking a life.

My father in law told us for months he wanted to die. We didn't take him to do so, but instead took him to the doctor repeatedly and fought for him when he couldn't. We found him dead. We would not have been better if we just took him to a place to let them kill him with poison.

The key point being "We would not have been better off" I would never force or encourage anyone to do this, but multiple examples have been posted of people and families who would have.

You say it dehumanizes people when in fact this may be the last time they can exercise their humanity.

Pro Sandy said:

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medical assisted suicide dehumanizing people, even those with alzheimers. Suicide is still taking a life.

My father in law told us for months he wanted to die. We didn't take him to do so, but instead took him to the doctor repeatedly and fought for him when he couldn't. We found him dead. We would not have been better if we just took him to a place to let them kill him with poison.

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do not presume to speak for anyone but yourself.

ever.

and spare the rest of us your self-righteous condescension.

my father died many months ago. The quarter and larger sized holes in his brain leave no doubt about that.

i spend my nights from Seattle watching my father on 4 internet connected cameras in his managed care suite so that my sisters can have a break and get some rest.

I get to watch as my father stands there unable to do a single thing for himself,.

I get to watch as my father's body tries to remove some errant piece of clothing triggers an autonomous response, only for him to lose his already poor balance and fall over, hitting his head on a bed or the floor or the wall.

I get to watch as my father lies there until I can get an emergency call into the orderlies, in case they are not watching their camera feeds at the same time. sometimes they come quickly. sometimes it will be many minutes, his body lying there, twitching.

i get to watch as my father ****s himself and sits in his own **** until an orderly notices, or i notice and contact them that he needs help.

that is not love. It is duty

Love would be an end to the misery. He would be utterly horrified of the realization of what his situation. It is a living death. And since we all mutually did not get to agree on it while he could be an active participant in the decision, we do our duty and care for the body left behind. Because my father is already dead.

C@LAg said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Suicide, whether medically assisted or not, is extremely worse on your family.

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Have you watched sometime mentally deteriorate to the point they're in a permanent state of confusion and can't even do the most basic of tasks for themselves over the course of a decade or so?

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yep.

Alzheimer's is what broke my faith in the purpose or value of any religion.

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Sorry for your personal loss
I am sorry that you lost your faith
Personally I am a Book of Job kind of guy

Really bad things happen to good people and all the person can do is get up , brush it off , tackle the new day and try to be grateful for the good things in their life

I don't begrudge him his decision. At all. I decided some time ago that I would do the same. I've had three members now of my family pass to Alzheimer's/dementia and seeing them waste away to nothing while draining their family assets in a pointless battle to extend their suffering….yeah. **** that. I fear extremely little in this life but losing my sense of self is tippity top and it's not even close.

Maternal gpa was the one I saw every step of the way. Years of degradation to the point he was basically a toddler in both control and mental state. What few lucid moments he had towards the end he wouldn't stop crying. He would ask everyone around him, including me, a young teen, to kill him. And then that fog would descend on his conscious again. My family wouldn't let me around him anymore his last coupla months.

To see such a strong man fall to that state is horrendous. For the family but more importantly himself. No one will really say it out loud, at least not to the grandkids, but there was nothing but relief when he finally passed. Seeing his suffering end was a godsend, morbid as that sounds. It's just reality.

Paternal gma was probably just as bad and maybe even worse since she took the violent route sadly. My dad still gets a haunted look when her name comes up. I managed to skip majority of that due to service and deployments and I can't help but be thankful for that. I don't care how selfish that is. I've seen enough.

So that's my sob story to say that I am behind medically assisted death in certain situations. Fully on board with it. I'm not going to celebrate his decision of course but man, I understand it.

Sid Farkas said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Well in this case, it's because Alzheimer's is a ***** and he doesn't want everyone he knows and loves to be brought down with him. For a lot of people with those kinds of degenerative diseases, they don't want to be a burden to their friends and families and they want their loved ones to remember them as they lived, not as someone who wasted away until their body finally gave up.

ETA Hell, I couldn't put my kids through that. My wife saw her great grandfather go through it, and it was pretty terrible. It really hurt everyone in her family too see him like that for years until he finally passed.

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My father is in the mid-late stages of Alzheimer's. He's a shell of his former self. He's starting to not recognize us anymore. Idk what I would (will?) do when I have enough wits to see that coming.

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Sorry you have to go through that. My mom suffered with dementia for the last few years of her life. She still recognized us, but was nowhere near herself by the end. My aunt was worse off, something like your dad. Yes, its terribly painful for everyone involved, but the thing is, we aren't tasked with making life and death decisions -- as far as who gets to live and die. That may not be fair or just, but it is true.

Now you may be called on to decide whether to continue care like I was with my dad or to stop ER procedures like I with my mom. I hope not; those decisions are the worst I've ever had to deal with. But I'm at peace with what I and my sisters decided. But if you are, I'm sure you'll make the right decisions.

tomorrow is the big day..

that is so chilling knowing the day you donk off from mortal coils..

Sims said:

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Any chance we could get AI generated pre-print of a study showing a conclusive cure for Alzheimer's to go viral about 10 minutes before hand?

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that's a great point

what happens if they come up with some medicine in four years that limits the damage of alzheimers or reverses some of it?

Can't decide for them. People need to be able to make these decisions for themselves when they are still able to.

For those who think medically assisted suicide should not exist, what is your opinion on do not resuscitate directives?

I'm so sorry, I'll be praying for you and your family. I've seen what suicide does to the rest of the family too.

Wondering if he is dead yet.