Rocag said:

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But you're not the one that gets to decide for other people whether they think they can afford to have more kids. I have a pretty good engineering job and would probably be solidly considered a part of the middle class. My wife and I have two kids. Could we have afforded a third or a fourth? Yeah, probably. But two additional kids would have brought lots of added expenses with it and taken away time we would have otherwise spent with each other or the kids we already have. In the end, we decided against more kids.

I'd imagine lots of couples are making similar decisions.

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Exactly, hence the TFR below replacement rate of 2.1

Rocag said:

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But you're not the one that gets to decide for other people whether they think they can afford to have more kids. I have a pretty good engineering job and would probably be solidly considered a part of the middle class. My wife and I have two kids. Could we have afforded a third or a fourth? Yeah, probably. But two additional kids would have brought lots of added expenses with it and taken away time we would have otherwise spent with each other or the kids we already have. In the end, we decided against more kids.

I'd imagine lots of couples are making similar decisions.

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I know, i just wish net drains on society weren't outbreeding producers. I am glad that conservative Christians are outbreeding white liberals though. That's the only silver lining in our drop in birth rates.

Also I was in Uganda recently. Crazy population growth, people everywhere. Doubled since 2000. Now 49.5 million vs Texas at 31 million

Rocag said:

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But you're not the one that gets to decide for other people whether they think they can afford to have more kids. I have a pretty good engineering job and would probably be solidly considered a part of the middle class. My wife and I have two kids. Could we have afforded a third or a fourth? Yeah, probably. But two additional kids would have brought lots of added expenses with it and taken away time we would have otherwise spent with each other or the kids we already have. In the end, we decided against more kids.

I'd imagine lots of couples are making similar decisions.

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THIS!! This is the primary driver. In general, people prefer more vacations, more space, nicer vehicles, more me time, and to focus their resources on giving one or two kids everything they can versus having more kids that may cramp their lifestyle a bit. Hard to do travel ball for everyone with 5 kids.

We were going to stop at 3. The 4th came along and showed us how stupid of a decision that would have been. Completely opened our eyes to what we would have said no to. A new child, completely unique, adding even more love to our home. Which led to number 5.

End of the day it's a heart issue. People crave comfort and kids are are anything but comfortable. It totally changes your day today as well as your future plans. And Rocag, I'm not judging you at all and hope it doesn't come across that way. It's just something I'm very passionate are about since converting to my new way of thinking. My financial and day to day comfort seemed more important than "another baby". But once that new life showed up I realized how wrong I was.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Why does everyone always claim that countries are doomed over birth rates? Aren't birth rates something that ebb and flow depending on conditions?

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They are not really ebbing. Rates have been steadily dropping for decades for numerous countries. That's why the analysis shows a world population decline starting in the next 20 or so years.

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Would a natural world population decline, like that, really be a bad thing?

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I think so. Think about having just 10% less population in this country. Assume depopulation is spread equally across all demographics, regions, jobs, etc... We still need every bit of the roads and bridges we have because the decline is spread equally. It's not like we will need 10% fewer roads because we have 10% fewer people. Population centers are not disappearing. That means all the roads and bridges must be maintained, but you have 10% fewer workers to do that. That would not be good. That's a simple example, but you get the idea.

For me personally, I wouldn't be sad at all to see a population regressing here in our country. Cities are swelling and becoming overcrowded, and areas that were once rural are now growing into suburbs. Many of our beloved small towns are now growing out of that status rapidly, and losing the small-town atmosphere and charm.

So while I don't want the country to disappear obviously, I would love a little population shrinkage. The other part of the problem is we're importing population growth, not growing via our own citizenry/culture/etc.

Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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I am 100% convinced that this, and plastics in everything, are a genuine contributor. I never thought, as someone on the far right, that I would end up on a simple organic meat and veggies diet, and using natural hippie bar soaps and deodorant, but here we are. It's probably not doing anything, but way too many chemicals in the brand name stuff.

Kansas Kid said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Why does everyone always claim that countries are doomed over birth rates? Aren't birth rates something that ebb and flow depending on conditions?

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This is a busy chart but shows in almost all countries, rates have been steadily declining since the end of the baby boom after WWII and are forecast to keep doing it.

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Do you have the stats for before the war? I would want to see if we're all just going back to the way things were before the war.

Where society is advanced and people have some wealth and need some wealth to function within the society, children become expensive and an investment, and require planning and asset investment. This makes them valuable and costly, so fewer are birthed and they are much more heavily invested in as individuals to PTO ote their development and success.

Children's aren't expendable and easily replaced by another in modern society. There's an interesting bonus to this in a way; these children will have a considerably higher average IQ than they otherwise would.

It's going to cause some interesting labor challenges.

Too bad Biden doesn't control their borders. They would double their population overnight

You watch a few videos of Peter Zeihan and then you start to believe it. Doom and gloom sells well in this media environment.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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I am 100% convinced that this, and plastics in everything, are a genuine contributor. I never thought, as someone on the far right, that I would end up on a simple organic meat and veggies diet, and using natural hippie bar soaps and deodorant, but here we are. It's probably not doing anything, but way too many chemicals in the brand name stuff.

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There is a startling overlap between the actual far right and the crunchy hippie moms.

This was a shock to me as well.

RebelE Infantry said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

---

I am 100% convinced that this, and plastics in everything, are a genuine contributor. I never thought, as someone on the far right, that I would end up on a simple organic meat and veggies diet, and using natural hippie bar soaps and deodorant, but here we are. It's probably not doing anything, but way too many chemicals in the brand name stuff.

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There is a startling overlap between the actual far right and the crunchy hippie moms.

This was a shock to me as well.

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Okay, now we're getting into dogs and cats living together territory.

Populations can't expand in perpetuity without consequences. Having periods of shrinkage is normal across all of the animal kingdom.

No Spin Ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Why does everyone always claim that countries are doomed over birth rates? Aren't birth rates something that ebb and flow depending on conditions?

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This is a busy chart but shows in almost all countries, rates have been steadily declining since the end of the baby boom after WWII and are forecast to keep doing it.

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Do you have the stats for before the war? I would want to see if we're all just going back to the way things were before the war.

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I don't have a chart but back then, families had a lot of kids. 1) no birth control and people were married in their teens, 2) highly rural population where kids were the source of cheap labor so families routinely had 5+ kids, 3) high child mortality so you had to have more kids to ensure you had heirs to take care of you in old age assuming you made it there.

I will try to find something but I assure you this is a new phenomenon driven primarily by the move to the cities and increased wealth helped with state provided poverty support like social security and Medicare.

For those that think this is a consequence of the alphabet soup, porn, and other left wing conspiracies, ask yourself why is this also happening in countries with harsh porn punishments, strong anti alphabet soup policies and culture? Even the Middle East is seeing a drop in birth rates and I haven't seen them embracing the gay and trans communities.

RebelE Infantry said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

---

I am 100% convinced that this, and plastics in everything, are a genuine contributor. I never thought, as someone on the far right, that I would end up on a simple organic meat and veggies diet, and using natural hippie bar soaps and deodorant, but here we are. It's probably not doing anything, but way too many chemicals in the brand name stuff.

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There is a startling overlap between the actual far right and the crunchy hippie moms.

This was a shock to me as well.

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I stick out like a sore thumb wearing this shirt in the organic hippie section...

Now that will definitely lead to a lower birth rate for some women…

AtticusMatlock said:

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It has to do with the industrialization cycle.

People have fewer kids when they move to cities where there is less space and no need for kids to work the farm. There's a correlation between when countries industrialize and their population patterns.

South Korea in particular industrialized very rapidly and now more than a third of their population lives in the Seoul metro area. People moving into the cities just stopped having kids due to cost and space.

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This is true.

Its also true that urbanization and industrialization have many negative long term connotations, low birth rates being the greatest long term danger.

However the elites are cheering all this on. Has it mean there will be fewer First world homo-sapiens gassing up a car or eating a medium well steak. thus consuming resources and heating up the planet.

Now as for Africa the elites are fine with its exploding population. Those nations are dirt poor and use comparatively use far fewer resources. BUT so what if what they do use for fuel is dirty, so what if their agriculture cant begin to sustain its population. The elites can and will demand what remains of the first world to bail their ignorant asses out. In the mean time they will continue to pump out poverty stricken kid after kid.

Philosophical type questions:

Setting aside the macroeconomics of a shrinking population - Why is it necessarily bad that the world population is shrining?

What makes humans so unique in nature that we must keep expanding and growing our numbers?

Humans have had their turn for a brief spec of time in the universe, but the world moves on. Why this need to exist forever when mother nature demonstrates that it is simply not possible?

Here is a chart going back to 1800. The baby boomers were the exception to the decline that has been going for 200 years.

Kansas Kid said:

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For those that think this is a consequence of the alphabet soup, porn, and other left wing conspiracies, ask yourself why is this also happening in countries with harsh porn punishments, strong anti alphabet soup policies and culture? Even the Middle East is seeing a drop in birth rates and I haven't seen them embracing the gay and trans communities.

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Independence of women, I would think is the primary factor followed by lower testosterone levels in male?

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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For those that think this is a consequence of the alphabet soup, porn, and other left wing conspiracies, ask yourself why is this also happening in countries with harsh porn punishments, strong anti alphabet soup policies and culture? Even the Middle East is seeing a drop in birth rates and I haven't seen them embracing the gay and trans communities.

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Independence of women, I would think is the primary factor followed by lower testosterone levels in male?

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Except this trend has been going for 200 years. I think these issues may be a part of it but not primary drivers.

lots of butthurt in this thread. surprised how many are upset with the opinions or anecdotal analysis of others. haha



i have four kids...wish i had another now that my youngest is 4 years old, but i am too selfish to start over the baby years again!

Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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Or...it just isn't financially or socially practical for the average person to have 3+ kids anymore.

AG81xx said:

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Well I can tell you one thing….Texas isn't "depopulating". Wish it would depopulate some. Texas's population has more than doubled since I graduated from A&M. I know, I know…I'm old. But it's still said.

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East of I-35, sure. In the West, there are some counties where the population is 25% of 1930 levels

But yes, this is why immigration into the US is being encouraged.

The Boomers are retiring and there is a worker shortage. No one likes to bring this up as a contributor to inflation, but it's a key factor. There are industries begging for labor and the resultant cost increases get passed along.

Rocag said:

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"Don't have kids if you can't afford them!"

"OK, I guess I won't have kids."

"Oh no, why is our birth rate dropping?!"

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frequently applies to unwed women having tons of kids by multiple daddies who burden the rest of society

AtticusMatlock said:

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But yes, this is why immigration into the US is being encouraged.

The Boomers are retiring and there is a worker shortage. No one likes to bring this up as a contributor to inflation, but it's a key factor.

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i dont think this is the case

AtticusMatlock said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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Or...it just isn't financially or socially practical for the average person to have 3+ kids anymore.

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I don't think I agree. Real median income has risen over time. It was more expensive back then to have kids, yet they had more of them:

Fightin2010 said:

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Abortion plus porn addiction. Probably primary the latter is the issue. Add in everyone getting married after 30 and you've now mimimized the window for procreation. Definitely going to be an issue here too if nothing changes.

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And now we're going to take away the technology to assist in people who have trouble having kids. Its 'Children of Men'.

Look at what people are spending their incomes on. Finances are not just about what is coming in, it's about what is going out.

Student loan debt, car notes, housing, health insurance, Uber Eats avocado toast delivery fees. All more expensive.

BluHorseShu said:

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Fightin2010 said:

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Abortion plus porn addiction. Probably primary the latter is the issue. Add in everyone getting married after 30 and you've now mimimized the window for procreation. Definitely going to be an issue here too if nothing changes.

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And now we're going to take away the technology to assist in people who have trouble having kids. Its 'Children of Men'.

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Porn assists with procreation?

We throw out all the excuses for why people are not having kids. Porn addiction, STD's, delaying trying, infertility, technology, and of course they big one always cited, they can't afford them.

The three primary reasons though are very simple.

1. Young people are having less sex.

2. Young people are waiting longer to get married, if they get married at all

3. They simply don't want to have kids (this is the single biggest factor)

Kansas Kid said:

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Here is a chart going back to 1800. The baby boomers were the exception to the decline that has been going for 200 years.

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That shows a lot. Thanks.