Teacher Pay

28,594 Views | 431 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by The Kraken
Francis Macomber
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Woods Ag said:

Yes.. you're right there.

But what he said is true. There are some fantastic teachers but there are a ton of bad ones.

And I understand the terrible parents arguement. I bet it's growing exponentially in the last few years because all of the parents that really give a **** are taking their kids and leaving the system.


What private industry are yall in where everyone is fantastic at their job? There are a ton of people making more than teachers in private industry that couldn't teach their way out of a paper sack. I employ some of them.
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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B-1 83 said:

Foreverconservative said:

Jeeper79 said:

shack009 said:

How could anyone justify higher teacher pay in a world where kids have less basic knowledge than they have since the country began?

(Haven't read the whole thread and shame if this point hasn't already been made).
Id love to see your evidence because this doesn't even pass the sniff test.
Give them a basic civics test and you'll find out
Give a "high school" kid a calculus test in 1900 and see how he does compared to kids taking that course now. Wait…….they did t take calculus in high school back then! I'm sure Miss Beadle did a fine job teaching chemistry in Walnut Grove.
Take those same High Schoolers and hand them one of these



Enough said
FIDO*98*
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Ag with kids said:

FIDO*98* said:

Ag with kids said:


But, it's not like they're getting them for free. You pay 8.25% of your salary into TRS for that pension. This is mandatory. And it's not like it's super lucrative. It's Years * (Avg highest 5 salary) * 0.023.

I'm staff at TAMU.


For perspective, I contribute 16% into my 401K and max my IRA which is about 1.75% of my income. Then I save about 10% on top of that and retirement is still not guaranteed
Voluntary != Mandatory

hth


Fair enough, but I'm illustrating how much you have to save in the private sector to even have a chance to retire with a similar income as when you were working, Even then I wouldn't be able to match what I'm making now and I will be on my own for healthcare
Kvetch
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bangobango said:

Woods Ag said:

Yes.. you're right there.

But what he said is true. There are some fantastic teachers but there are a ton of bad ones.

And I understand the terrible parents arguement. I bet it's growing exponentially in the last few years because all of the parents that really give a **** are taking their kids and leaving the system.


What private industry are yall in where everyone is fantastic at their job? There are a ton of people making more than teachers in private industry that couldn't teach their way out of a paper sack. I employ some of them.


So fire them…or pay them commensurate with their skill level.

The difference in the private sector is theoretically they are generating revenue. Teachers are only an expense.

Also, nobody said there aren't low performers in the private sector. The point here is that teaching isn't attractive to high performers.
B-1 83
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Foreverconservative said:

B-1 83 said:

Foreverconservative said:

Jeeper79 said:

shack009 said:

How could anyone justify higher teacher pay in a world where kids have less basic knowledge than they have since the country began?

(Haven't read the whole thread and shame if this point hasn't already been made).
Id love to see your evidence because this doesn't even pass the sniff test.
Give them a basic civics test and you'll find out
Give a "high school" kid a calculus test in 1900 and see how he does compared to kids taking that course now. Wait…….they did t take calculus in high school back then! I'm sure Miss Beadle did a fine job teaching chemistry in Walnut Grove.
Take those same High Schoolers and hand them one of these



Enough said
What next? You want them to use Big Chief tablets? An abacus? No doubt you use a slide rule frequently as opposed to a calculator. Don't get me wrong, I think calculators should be verboten before about 7th grade.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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B-1 83 said:

Foreverconservative said:

B-1 83 said:

Foreverconservative said:

Jeeper79 said:

shack009 said:

How could anyone justify higher teacher pay in a world where kids have less basic knowledge than they have since the country began?

(Haven't read the whole thread and shame if this point hasn't already been made).
Id love to see your evidence because this doesn't even pass the sniff test.
Give them a basic civics test and you'll find out
Give a "high school" kid a calculus test in 1900 and see how he does compared to kids taking that course now. Wait…….they did t take calculus in high school back then! I'm sure Miss Beadle did a fine job teaching chemistry in Walnut Grove.
Take those same High Schoolers and hand them one of these



Enough said
What next? You want them to use Big Chief tablets? An abacus? No doubt you use a slide rule frequently as opposed to a calculator. Don't get me wrong, I think calculators should be verboten before about 7th grade.
You obviously have never had to use one or you'd know there's things a slide rules can do that calculators can't.


You have a nice day and Bless Your Heart
Jeeper79
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Foreverconservative said:

B-1 83 said:

Foreverconservative said:

Jeeper79 said:

shack009 said:

How could anyone justify higher teacher pay in a world where kids have less basic knowledge than they have since the country began?

(Haven't read the whole thread and shame if this point hasn't already been made).
Id love to see your evidence because this doesn't even pass the sniff test.
Give them a basic civics test and you'll find out
Give a "high school" kid a calculus test in 1900 and see how he does compared to kids taking that course now. Wait…….they did t take calculus in high school back then! I'm sure Miss Beadle did a fine job teaching chemistry in Walnut Grove.
Take those same High Schoolers and hand them one of these



Enough said
Thats not the own that you think it is. The fact that it's been largely replaced with better tools is a sign of advancement. Which, if anything, signals better education.
B-1 83
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If you look at his previous posts on this thread, you'll get an idea of his firm grasp on the educational system. If being able to use a slide rule is some great measuring stick to compare the level of modern education to that "when the country began", then there are no words that will change that opinion.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.
Ag with kids
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shack009 said:

Jeeper79 said:

shack009 said:

Jeeper79 said:

shack009 said:

How could anyone justify higher teacher pay in a world where kids have less basic knowledge than they have since the country began?

(Haven't read the whole thread and shame if this point hasn't already been made).
Id love to see your evidence because this doesn't even pass the sniff test.


Have you seen any man on the street interview in the past decade? College kids don't know why we celebrate July 4th. Can't guess which century the civil war was in. Don't know who we fought in any war ever other than Hitler.

Have you read soldier correspondence from the uneducated front line men in the civil war or even the revolutionary war? To compare the diction and prose of those kids to today's college kids is to compare apples and pumpkins.
You know they wouldn't put that person on tv if they actually got the question right… right?


Brilliant insight. You know there are dozens of hours of this footage on college campuses alone, let alone the "less educated" genpop? It's not like these happenings are rare.

If you think today's average high schooler would score the same or higher on a 1905 civics test than the average 1905 kid, I just don't know what to say to you. And same goes for basically every decade of this country.
Well, the illiteracy rate in 1905 was about 9%, compared to 0.5% or less now, so, don't make them READ the test.
The Unforgiven
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I only did one semester of student teaching to get my degree and said forget that. It isn't worth it. I probably should have never gone down that route to begin with. However, I did come up with one saying one of the coaches taught me after a student said something that just really floored me.

I asked the coach how can someone be so dumb. He stated "If you follow an idiot home, a bigger idiot will answer the door"

Schools are at fault, parents are at fault, society is at fault and government is at fault. Parents are more at fault for kids not being educated in the public school system than most will admit. Kids that have parents that care more will always have a better chance at succeeding. there are outliers i admit.

I believe schooling today should have a total overhaul. Especially, with AI becoming more and more sophisticated. Teachers used to tell us, you need to learn to do math without a calculator because you won't have one on you all the time. We all now carry one with us all day every day. I wrote a cover letter for a job i was applying for. I thought it was really great. A friend showed me this AI tool that would make it better. I tried that, and damn it made it look a lot better.

We still need to teach a lot of the basics. However, we need to probably be more strategic and focused on a kids talents, skills, and passions in the later stages of public education. However, it will never happen because someone will say it discriminates. The current program makes too much money for certain people. It will never change due to the bloated government, bad parents, and the degradation of society.
Ag with kids
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The Unforgiven said:

I only did one semester of student teaching to get my degree and said forget that. It isn't worth it. I probably should have never gone down that route to begin with. However, I did come up with one saying one of the coaches taught me after a student said something that just really floored me.

I asked the coach how can someone be so dumb. He stated "If you follow an idiot home, a bigger idiot will answer the door"

Schools are at fault, parents are at fault, society is at fault and government is at fault. Parents are more at fault for kids not being educated in the public school system than most will admit. Kids that have parents that care more will always have a better chance at succeeding. there are outliers i admit.

I believe schooling today should have a total overhaul. Especially, with AI becoming more and more sophisticated. Teachers used to tell us, you need to learn to do math without a calculator because you won't have one on you all the time. We all now carry one with us all day every day. I wrote a cover letter for a job i was applying for. I thought it was really great. A friend showed me this AI tool that would make it better. I tried that, and damn it made it look a lot better.

We still need to teach a lot of the basics. However, we need to probably be more strategic and focused on a kids talents, skills, and passions in the later stages of public education. However, it will never happen because someone will say it discriminates. The current program makes too much money for certain people. It will never change due to the bloated government, bad parents, and the degradation of society.
One thing that I think the Euros get right is how they track students in middle school. Kids who will go to college get in one track and get college prep education in HS. Kids who won't get more basic and vocational type education.

There are a lot of kids in HS that don't need a lot of what they're taught and that's why they get bored and cause problems...get them in programs that would interest them.
B-1 83
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And this leads me to a point that may be the topic for another thread….
Quote:

We still need to teach a lot of the basics. However, we need to probably be more strategic and focused on a kids talents, skills, and passions in the later stages of public education. However, it will never happen because someone will say it discriminates. The current program makes too much money for certain people. It will never change due to the bloated government, bad parents, and the degradation of society.
I have an idea for a "Great Educational Reset" that would do just that, and require a lot of teeth grinding, more teachers in lower grades, and would likely have to endure screams of "Racist!" but needs to be done. It would be derailing this thread, so perhaps later.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Francis Macomber
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Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
Lone Stranger
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You are correct that none of the multitude of problems that need fixed in public schools will be without some great reset and total makeover from the ground back up.

Colleges of education churn out enough students that administrators can plug a warm body in anywhere when a good teacher leaves. Supply of poor teachers that are just acceptable enough to keep administrators cushy salaries where they are without real accountability of the school administration holds teachers salary down.

A friend that teach Chemistry at another TX University was lamenting a new teaching assignmnet last fall. He called it Perfume Chemistry. Me: What's that? Him; Chemistry for college of education....future teahers. Me: How does that compare to cowboy chemistry? Him; right in between cowboy chemistry and special ed. It is a weird mixture of mrs degree, save the whales, alphabet mafia and STEM is racist types.
Thriller
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I'm consistently amazed (though I probably shouldn't be) by the number of people on this board that think they know the details about being a teacher, both good and bad simply because they were in school once or have kids now.

The reality is that most people on this board are part of the population that we would consider as good, involved parents. For some you, that means choosing private school. For others, that means being involved in your student's life to counteract some of the poor educational outcomes they might otherwise encounter. If you don't have children in school today and your opinions are based upon anecdotal evidence, the media, or decades-old beliefs, I'd encourage you to come visit a public school classroom. You'll get paid for the experience, but likely far less than your average daily wage. If you visit my classroom, I'll even supplement your sub pay if you so desire.

What you would find would likely be eye opening. The spectrum of aptitude, ability, parental involvement, inherent motivation, and grit is astounding. But at the end of the day my job is to shepherd 135 students through an 8th grade math, Algebra, and Geometry curriculum. To do so, I have to navigate the spectrum mentioned previously, legitimate knowledge gaps(COVID-related and otherwise), an administration that thankfully cares but is hamstrung by regulations and litigious parents, colleagues that care but are burned out, colleagues that don't care at all who perpetuate our issues, obvious mental health crises for which we are sometimes the first and last line of defense, and on and on.

I'm not looking for a pat on the back or more money. I could use some help, and so could your kids' teachers, no matter private or public. I could use some support in the public beyond the constant railing against the education system. The solutions always seem to be school choice, get rid of the unions, but never seem to include people getting involved themselves. The same ones that complain to my face are never around when I offer a spot to help by getting involved. For what it's worth I'm not a member of a union and have taught in both public and private parochial schools.

I try to stay out of these threads because I come here for entertainment. But damn, the amount of people who know how to do my job is astounding. Massive grain of salt because I'm fully aware of the board on which this post is being made. For the hundreds/thousands of you reading this thread and not throwing the people who likely spend more time with your kids….thank you. Tell your teachers thank you too - an email from a former student or an encounter in the grocery store years later are worth more than a pay raise in my book.

I teach despite knowing the pay is substantially less than my time and skills were worth "outside". Someone has to do it. If we keep running b off the good ones, there won't be enough decent teachers around to even fill up the private schools that seem to be the panacea. Some of us truly love that "light bulb" moment that might otherwise not have happened if dedicated teachers weren't there to meet motivated students.

Apologies for any typos. iPad keyboard is acting up and autocorrect has been hit or miss for me today.
shack009
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I agree that parents need to be more involved with all aspects of their kids' lives, especially school.

It's also interesting that most people who think teachers should be paid more also think parents need to be involved in the kids schooling. Why should the teachers be paid more when a lot of the important work they do starts at home? Why are they giving homework when the kids are at school for 7 hours?

A great argument against higher teacher pay is that parents have a lot of say in how well a child is educated.
The Unforgiven
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the one thing i definitely agree with teachers on pay issue is that individual teachers shouldn't have to pay for school supplies out of their own pocket. Both of my parents were school teachers, and i didn't realize that until i was an adult. With all the pens, pencils, notebooks, paper and other stuff, how in the world are the schools not paying for this. i would think they would get huge discounts due to volume purchasing.

I know a lot of that should be at the cost of the student's parents, which i am sure most of our parents bought the necessary supplies. however, there are a lot that won't do it.

I am a big supporter of athletics and sports, however, some of these schools spend too much money on them instead of the more important stuff. The high school in my neighborhood recently built an indoor practice facility that rivals some of the big colleges out there. Why are we spending that much money on something that isn't the number one goal of what public education is supposed to be? If your school cannot pay for everything that is needed for just the basic everyday needs of school, don't build an indoor practice facility that costs millions.
jja79
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I assume terminated them since the private sector is a meritocracy while education is anything but.
Ag with kids
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Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
Ag with kids
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Thriller said:

I'm consistently amazed (though I probably shouldn't be) by the number of people on this board that think they know the details about being a teacher, both good and bad simply because they were in school once or have kids now.

The reality is that most people on this board are part of the population that we would consider as good, involved parents. For some you, that means choosing private school. For others, that means being involved in your student's life to counteract some of the poor educational outcomes they might otherwise encounter. If you don't have children in school today and your opinions are based upon anecdotal evidence, the media, or decades-old beliefs, I'd encourage you to come visit a public school classroom. You'll get paid for the experience, but likely far less than your average daily wage. If you visit my classroom, I'll even supplement your sub pay if you so desire.

<deleted for clarity>
I think they'd crap at the sub pay.

Here is FBISD's pay scale for substitutes

Got a BS or BA? You'll get $14-16/hr to sub for a day. Got one of them teaching certs? Now you get $16-20/hr...

Don't spend it all in one place.
agwrestler
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Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
DEI absolutely does consume state and school funding. Since that funding comes from the same origin as teacher salaries, it is very relevant to the topic.
lb3
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Aggie4Life02 said:

Teachers get paid very well.
Overall teachers are significantly over paid. Teachers should negotiate their salaries just like everyone else. High performers should get top pay and poor performers should see their pay in the bottom quintile. Paying based on seniority only encourages mediocrity.
Ag with kids
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agwrestler said:

Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
DEI absolutely does consume state and school funding. Since that funding comes from the same origin as teacher salaries, it is very relevant to the topic.
It's still a different subject.

EVs are sometimes purchased by teachers. Therefore, they are related to teacher pay. So, we should discuss them on this thread, too.

How about that Tesla?
Aggies1322
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Ag with kids said:

agwrestler said:

Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
DEI absolutely does consume state and school funding. Since that funding comes from the same origin as teacher salaries, it is very relevant to the topic.
It's still a different subject.

EVs are sometimes purchased by teachers. Therefore, they are related to teacher pay. So, we should discuss them on this thread, too.

How about that Tesla?

Poor false equivalency

ETA - DEI is relevant because teachers are teaching objectively false things to children, and expect me to care when they cry for more money. Nah. Suck less at your job.
Ag with kids
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lb3 said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

Teachers get paid very well.
Overall teachers are significantly over paid. Teachers should negotiate their salaries just like everyone else. High performers should get top pay and poor performers should see their pay in the bottom quintile. Paying based on seniority only encourages mediocrity.
Sure they are.

And what, negotiate higher pay with WHOM? The school? The same school that has a rigid pay scale because of Texas laws?

I agree that the system needs to change - but right now, teachers have ZERO pull in changing their salaries.
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
I'll rephrase my earlier if you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't relevant to this subject then you are part of the problem.
Ag with kids
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Aggies1322 said:

Ag with kids said:

agwrestler said:

Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
DEI absolutely does consume state and school funding. Since that funding comes from the same origin as teacher salaries, it is very relevant to the topic.
It's still a different subject.

EVs are sometimes purchased by teachers. Therefore, they are related to teacher pay. So, we should discuss them on this thread, too.

How about that Tesla?

Poor false equivalency
No. We're discussing things related to teacher pay. So, I merely pointed out other things that are relevant to teacher pay, like he wanted to do.

There's LOTS of tangential things that could be talked about that are relevant to state funding (my job included even though I'm not a teacher). But, those things need their own thread. JFC, it's like some of y'all see squirrels all day long.
Ag with kids
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Foreverconservative said:

Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
I'll rephrase my earlier if you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't relevant to this subject then you are part of the problem.
I think those things are horribad and have ZERO place in school. They also have ZERO place in this thread.

I know you want to derail this thread to DEI and liberals are bad people. But, please don't.

Cue the CM, GOPe, liberal comments, now...
Aggies1322
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Ag with kids said:

Aggies1322 said:

Ag with kids said:

agwrestler said:

Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
DEI absolutely does consume state and school funding. Since that funding comes from the same origin as teacher salaries, it is very relevant to the topic.
It's still a different subject.

EVs are sometimes purchased by teachers. Therefore, they are related to teacher pay. So, we should discuss them on this thread, too.

How about that Tesla?

Poor false equivalency
No. We're discussing things related to teacher pay. So, I merely pointed out other things that are relevant to teacher pay, like he wanted to do.

There's LOTS of tangential things that could be talked about that are relevant to state funding (my job included even though I'm not a teacher). But, those things need their own thread. JFC, it's like some of y'all see squirrels all day long.

DEI is more relevant because teachers are now teaching objectively false things in their classroom. Using my tax dollars. Sorry if I don't give a **** that they want to be paid more money. Maybe they should focus on actually educating, then we can talk about their comp.
stallion6
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bangobango said:

I taught (and coached) for ten years and it's the hardest job I've ever had by far. Went I to another career and will celebrate my tenth year doing that this spring. I paid three times as much in income taxes last year as I earned total my last year teaching. Even bad teachers are underpaid, in my opinion, especially at inner city schools. Most people who really talk down about teachers wouldn't last ten minutes in a classroom at a bad district.

All my children attend a average rated public school even though we could put then in private school if we wanted to. They're in honors programs and make great grades. Will probably attend a university like A&M or better, and are smarter than a lot of their cousins who go to some of the best private schools in the state. They're definitely smarter than me at the same age, especially in STEM subjects.

What I learned while teaching is that the kids are going to do what they're going to do, almost irregardless of the teavhers around them. Really great teachers can maybe change a kid's life, but those people have to have a priest like devotion to their job - forsaking personal life for the sake of other's kids. There are just not that many type of people out there to build any kind of model out of that, especially for the current rate of pay. And it's not really realistic to expect everyone in teaching to do it because they have a "calling" for it. If you've ever seen the movie Freedom Writers that is kind of what I'm talking about. She basically sacrifices her marriage to devote her life to her students.

I think there is an assumption that vouchers will change the academic outlook for a lot of these kids and I just don't see that as being a likely outcome. The parents that care enough to move their kids to another school were likely to have kids that would've achieved academic success at the school that they were at anyways. School options are also always going to be limited by geography, too, and the kids that are struggling are usually in the lower socio-economic rung if the ladder and those are parents who usually don't have the time or the desire to drive their kids to a school that is further away (or drive their kids at all).

Vouchers have been implemented in other states and I don't think it has resulted in a rise in teacher pay, but I'll admit I've not researched it. I don't believe vouchers in other states have shown an improvement t in academic achievement, either, but I'm sure voucher supporters have a host of reasons those studies or results aren't valid.

Most likely result if vouchers, in my opinion, is going to be a proliferation of pop-up private schools that will exist a few years, be a money grab by charging tuition equal to the voucher amount (maybe a little more), and result in a lot of parents being taken advantage of and their kid's getting a terrible education for a few years until the place goes belly-up and the owners take off with the cash. Think Bisop Sycamore here. Those type of people are going g to bamboozle the hell out of a lot of uneducated single moms.
You clearly have an experienced perspective. The only comment that I might take exception with is you comment that school vouchers would have little impact on improving the quality of education. I would have thought competition would have administration competing for top quality teachers and then paying those teachers higher salaries. My perspective is your have to reward people that perform and do that through compensation.
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

Ag with kids said:

Foreverconservative said:

bangobango said:

Foreverconservative said:

Fix these problems and then you can talk about a raise.



Bury your head in the sand all you want and keep thinking, 'This junk is in Austin, but not here," it's EVERYWHERE folks. Most all school districts in Texas as all other states do, have dedicated staff positions for diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI, to incorporate racial equity into curriculum and instruction. Go look at the Fort Worth ISD staff directory they have 12 positions designated as DEI staff, and it isn't uncommon to see such staff making $250,000 annually. These types of administrators are making far above what the classroom teachers make and that is where the root of the problem lies. But teachers going along with it to justify a paycheck are just as guilty. I'm sick to death of hearing this Bull**it about. "I'm here for the kids not the pay" because if you were there for the kids then you would push this crap on innocent kids. Kids are born a blank sheet of paper, and everything they are or become is taught or learned from example. EVERYTHING

The best thing to come out of COVID was it opened up the eyes of many clueless parents as to what was being pushed on their kids every day. And that's on the parents for not taking a more active role in their own kids education.


Adults are trying to have a serious conversation here. Take this crap to another thread and stop with the derail.
If you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't a serious conversation then you are part of the problem.

Go moderate somewhere else
This is a subject for another thread.

This thread is about PAY, not DEI.
I'll rephrase my earlier if you think that diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI being pushed on kids isn't relevant to this subject then you are part of the problem.
I think those things are horribad and have ZERO place in school. They also have ZERO place in this thread.

I know you want to derail this thread to DEI and liberals are bad people. But, please don't.

Cue the CM, GOPe, liberal comments, now...
You seriously have zero idea what my intentions are. I started down this path stating I won't APPROVE ANOTHER DIME for ay unless they clean up the crap these TEACHERS are pushing on the kids. Your FEELINGS that it's horrible are squat, but you start cutting funding including pay for ANYONE that pushed DEI CRT ETC ETC, then you start getting people's attention. So my point is 100% relevant whether you agree or not.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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agwrestler said:

Old McDonald said:

teachers deserve more pay purely on the basis of babysitting everyone's ****ty children 7 hours a day, let alone teaching them to read, write, and do math


Admin should be gutted to increase their pay.

Teacher salaries are kept low for control of their voting bloc. They are submitted to heavy campaign/informational (propaganda) every 2 years when the next bond election is coming up.

IF teachers were comfortable with their position and content with the compensation levels, why would they need to vote to take more taxes?




How do we comply with all the laws that require admin participation? 504, SpEd, Teacher Evals, and other legally required admin roles?
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
lb3
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Ag with kids said:

lb3 said:

Aggie4Life02 said:

Teachers get paid very well.
Overall teachers are significantly over paid. Teachers should negotiate their salaries just like everyone else. High performers should get top pay and poor performers should see their pay in the bottom quintile. Paying based on seniority only encourages mediocrity.
Sure they are.

And what, negotiate higher pay with WHOM? The school? The same school that has a rigid pay scale because of Texas laws?

I agree that the system needs to change - but right now, teachers have ZERO pull in changing their salaries.
What law? The TEA only sets minimum pay.

https://tea.texas.gov/texas-educators/salary-and-service-record/minimum-salary-schedule/2023-2024-minimum-salary-schedule

Most districts pay significantly more than this and they have the freedom to choose how they compensate their teachers.
 
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