What are your thoughts on this?

Given the prevalence of fentanyl being found in designer drugs these days, I'm not entirely opposed to this. Much like the marijuana industry here in America, perhaps this could allow for a "safer" drug experience with regulations being placed on production to ensure quality.

Anyway, given the fentanyl epidemic, I like outside the box thinking like this. I know coke isn't a drug with many, if any, redeeming qualities. But people are going to do drugs regardless. Might as well give them a safer alternative to the crap you can buy on the streets and perhaps save a few lives.

Edit: For the record, this isn't full blown legalization being talked about yet, it's a pilot program being tossed around in Bern.

Maybe look into how Portland is doing with this same "solution".

No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

We have case studies for this already.

Example: OrEgOn

In September of this year, they realized how insanely stupid their decision was in 2020, and reversed course. They're trying to make excuses for why it failed, but the simple Truth is that it is a bad idea.

"Oregon voters in 2020 passed Measure 110, a first-in-the-nation law decriminalizing the possession of small amounts of controlled substances such as heroin, methamphetamines, cocaine and fentanyl."

"An even more recent poll in Oregon (from '23) found that 64% of voters want to repeal portions of the measure, including possibly bringing back criminal penalties for possession, and 56% support repealing it entirely. The poll, conducted by Emerson College Polling, was commissioned by the Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions, an Alexandria, Virginia-based organization that opposes decriminalization nationally."

ETA: https://newjerseymonitor.com/2023/09/12/drug-decriminalization-stumbled-in-oregon-other-states-are-taking-note/

Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Not sure about that, at all.

Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

Well, it seems to keep the president going when he in in public.

Wyoming Aggie said:

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What are your thoughts on this?

Given the prevalence of fentanyl being found in designer drugs these days, I'm not entirely opposed to this. Much like the marijuana industry here in America, perhaps this could allow for a "safer" drug experience with regulations being placed on production to ensure quality.

Anyway, given the fentanyl epidemic, I like outside the box thinking like this. I know coke isn't a drug with many, if any, redeeming qualities. But people are going to do drugs regardless. Might as well give them a safer alternative to the crap you can buy on the streets and perhaps save a few lives.

Edit: For the record, this isn't full blown legalization being talked about yet, it's a pilot program being tossed around in Bern.

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Anyone if favor of legalizing drugs needs to not be focused on making it easier for "drug addicts". That is the last group of people anyone should focus their thoughts on policy. Consider the safety impact to the community with increases in homicides, increase in addicts, and just overall public safety because the increase in drug addicts will create an increase in crime. By the way, there are no "safe" drugs.

William K. Klingaman said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Not sure about that, at all.

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Why not both? Regarding the two prior comments.

Overdose deaths from fentanyl laced stimulants have risen 50-fold since 2010
The trend marks the fourth wave in the US overdose crisis, which began with prescription opioid deaths in the early 2000s and has since continued with other drugs

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/overdose-deaths-fentanyl-laced-stimulants-have-risen-50-fold

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The poll, conducted by Emerson College Polling, was commissioned by the Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions, an Alexandria, Virginia-based organization that opposes decriminalization nationally."

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Sounds like they got the result they paid for.

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a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I don't consider investment bankers, most actors/musicians, lawyers, and doctors to be a burden on society.


People who can afford cocaine generally aren't drains on society.

stallion6 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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What are your thoughts on this?

Given the prevalence of fentanyl being found in designer drugs these days, I'm not entirely opposed to this. Much like the marijuana industry here in America, perhaps this could allow for a "safer" drug experience with regulations being placed on production to ensure quality.

Anyway, given the fentanyl epidemic, I like outside the box thinking like this. I know coke isn't a drug with many, if any, redeeming qualities. But people are going to do drugs regardless. Might as well give them a safer alternative to the crap you can buy on the streets and perhaps save a few lives.

Edit: For the record, this isn't full blown legalization being talked about yet, it's a pilot program being tossed around in Bern.

---

Anyone if favor of legalizing drugs needs to not be focused on making it easier for "drug addicts". That is the last group of people anyone should focus their thoughts on policy. Consider the safety impact to the community with increases in homicides, increase in addicts, and just overall public safety because the increase in drug addicts will create an increase in crime. By the way, there are no "safe" drugs.

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The problem with making it harder for addicts to find drugs is that they ultimately turn to worse alternatives to chase that high.

Given our fentanyl epidemic, I don't exactly hate the idea of having a regulated drug industry so people know they aren't getting a lethal dose of something they didn't want.

I don't have kids, but if I did, the fentanyl epidemic would have me terrified. Young people try things. It's part of growing up. I'd rather they try a "safer" alternative.

Related:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/jagerbombs-worse-than-cocaine-study-28336317.amp

Why ruin your body with illegal cocaine when you can do just as much damage with completely legal alcohol and caffeine combinations?

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researchers warning that mixing energy drinks with alcohol could possibly do the same amount of damage as cocaine. Alcohol acts as a depressant while, conversely, the energy drink acts as a stimulant - and some energy drinks can contain as much as ten times the amount of caffeine as fizzy drinks.

…

The study also found that frequently drinking jgerbombs could also increase the likelihood of feeling a desire, or actually using, drugs such as cocaine later on. Professor van Rijn added: "That is one reason why it is so difficult for drug users to quit because of these lasting changes in the brain.

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Related:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/jagerbombs-worse-than-cocaine-study-28336317.amp

Why ruin your body with illegal cocaine when you can do just as much damage with completely legal alcohol and caffeine combinations?

Quote:

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researchers warning that mixing energy drinks with alcohol could possibly do the same amount of damage as cocaine. Alcohol acts as a depressant while, conversely, the energy drink acts as a stimulant - and some energy drinks can contain as much as ten times the amount of caffeine as fizzy drinks.

…

The study also found that frequently drinking jgerbombs could also increase the likelihood of feeling a desire, or actually using, drugs such as cocaine later on. Professor van Rijn added: "That is one reason why it is so difficult for drug users to quit because of these lasting changes in the brain.

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I can't drink Red Bull to this day because of all the Jager bombs in my 20's. The smell alone is enough to make me tap out.

Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Does this necessarily prevent people from buying on the street and getting who knows what in their product?

Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

Does being addicted to sugar and caffeine cut you off from the Holy Spirit in your opinion?

Switzerland imploding because legalized cocaine wouldn't be all that bad...

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Does being addicted to sugar and caffeine cut you off from the Holy Spirit in your opinion?

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No because it doesn't significantly alter the function of your brain.

Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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What if they only do cocaine at company parties or the like? God okay with that?

Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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Didn't Christ aim to save those ne'er do wells and the downtrodden?

Sugar and caffeine absolutely does. Both cause physical and mental withdrawals for most people in the US if they go more than a day or two without either. How many people do you know that routinely say they can not operate without coffee? How many people say they physically can't help being obese?

Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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Didn't Christ aim to save those ne'er do wells and the downtrodden?

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Christ absolutely does, i never said addicts can't be saved. I said if they're addicted and die - I would be concerned about their destination. I'm not saying drug addicted people are worse or less than me or anyone else. Just that i would be concerned about them.

Terrible idea.

Instead, nuke the known manufacturing areas in China that are producing it.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Sugar and caffeine absolutely does. Both cause physical and mental withdrawals for most people in the US if they go more than a day or two without either. How many people do you know that routinely say they can not operate without coffee? How many people say they physically can't help being obese?

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Sorry man.. I get that addictions to those things exist but eating a whole pumpkin pie doesn't make your brain function like if you drank a handle of vodka. Your false equivalence is a weak one.

Teslag said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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What if they only do cocaine at company parties or the like? God okay with that?

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If you're asking whether God is okay with people sinning casually rather than at the hands of addiction - the answer is no. What a stupid question.

Aggies1322 said:

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Teslag said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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What if they only do cocaine at company parties or the like? God okay with that?

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If you're asking whether God is okay with people sinning casually rather than at the hands of addiction - the answer is no. What a stupid question.

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Why is casual use of cocaine a sin and alcohol not?

Teslag said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Teslag said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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What if they only do cocaine at company parties or the like? God okay with that?

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If you're asking whether God is okay with people sinning casually rather than at the hands of addiction - the answer is no. What a stupid question.

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Why is casual use of cocaine a sin and alcohol not?

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If you get drunk it is.. if you don't it's not. Let me know the next time you use cocaine and don't get high.

Aggies1322 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Sugar and caffeine absolutely does. Both cause physical and mental withdrawals for most people in the US if they go more than a day or two without either. How many people do you know that routinely say they can not operate without coffee? How many people say they physically can't help being obese?

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Sorry man.. I get that addictions to those things exist but eating a whole pumpkin pie doesn't make your brain function like if you drank a handle of vodka. Your false equivalence is a weak one.

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It is a pretty false equivalence, I agree. Cocaine kills almost nobody in this country when compared to the amount of people who poison themselves to death with their sugar addiction. More people die from being addicted to sugar than literally any other drug in Thai country. Trillions are spent in taxpayer costs combatting sugar addiction.

Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Wyoming Aggie said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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No offense but is a life of cocaine addiction really a better outcome?

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Better than being dead from an accidental fentanyl overdose, I guess

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Really? Being a burden on all of society? As a Christian, I would never hope that someone dies without knowing Christ… but from a purely utilitarian perspective - a person wholly addicted to cocaine is a massive burden on a society.

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I'm confused, you're saying a coke addict can't know Christ?

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I think there is a case to be made that being drunk or high all the time will cut you off from the Holy Spirit, which is why the Bible says not to do those things.

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Didn't Christ aim to save those ne'er do wells and the downtrodden?

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That was liberal Jesus. Right wing Jesus hates everyone.