JFABNRGR said:

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Faustus said:

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Nitro Power said:

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I believe the hostages are already dead. You have heard nothing pertaining to proof of life.

The US might try to negotiate for the Americans release (provided my previous statement is not true), but Israel is not going to negotiate. They have said as much. If they did, after what they have said and they way they have acted, it would really enable the terrorists in the future. Perhaps more so than ever.

With that being said, I just cannot see Bibi not finishing what he started and backing up what he says.

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Zero chance all the hostages are dead. They were the main objective along with the destruction and provoking a response that blows up the rapprochement started under Trump between Israel and the Sunni ruling regimes.

Hamas had hoped to trade some of the hostages for all the prisoners held by Israel, and at this point it's pretty much the only card they are holding, not that it will do them much good in the short term.

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I disagree with this completely. Hostages for trading of prisoners was not the main objective. If it was then no further bloodshed would have been made to include such horrific atrocities. Once blood is spilled the chances of getting them back decreases significantly.

If you were correct we would have seen them protected from both the takers and the spectators instead we saw them raped, sodomized, beaten, spit on and photographed.

Sadly they were trophies.

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I think the atrocities were to provoke an overwhelming response to blow up rapprochement and further radicalize the non-Hamas populous of Gaza. Well that and they wanted to do it anyway.

Previously the going rate was 1 Israeli hostage for 1,000 prisoners. I guess we will see down the road whether there are living hostages, or as you put it dead trophies.

I know there are some on this thread that have experience with armored vehicles and I have some questions from some of the video clips seen in the initial assault.

One clip was of an Israeli soldier getting pulled from a tank and kidnapped or murdered, I'm not sure what eventually happened to him. The terrorists were all on foot and only carrying small arms from what I saw, how does someone with the protection of a tank end up falling to a bunch of guys with automatic rifles? I didn't see any AT weapons. Did the tank run out of fuel ? It seems like as long as the tank was functional you could just drive away or better yet drive over a bunch of Aloha Snackbars and turn them into Fruit Rollups. I saw video of a captured tank taken back to Gaza and assumed it was the same tank and that it was functional enough to drive away so puzzled how the guy was captured.

Also, don't the Israeli police and guard units have MRAPS they can send into areas with gunmen like that? The cops all showed up in Jeeps and standard police vehicles.

What happens when Israel levels the Gaza strip and makes it uninhabitable?

So we've got 2-million residents of the Gaza strip that nobody wants?

Are we looking at an imminent humanitarian disaster?

2-million people evacuated by sea?

2-million people dispersed as refugees throughout the four corners of the earth like the tribes of Israel?

The entirety of Israel made uninhabitable?

How's that gonna work?

I'm just trying to get an idea of everybody's expectations with all this.

They did knock out at least one tank that I saw. They don't have the anti tank arsenal that Hezbollah does but they surely have some.

aggiehawg said:

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Rockdoc said:

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Every time I see that video of the poor girl in the little SUV with the blood on her pants from being raped, my heart just breaks for her. She's probably dead by now.

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Later videos of her face down in the back of a truck with her legs at odd angles, suggest she died that day.

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That was a different girl

Agthatbuilds said:

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Egypt has discussed plans with the United States and others to provide humanitarian aid through its border with Gaza Strip but rejects any move to set up safe corridors for refugees fleeing the enclave, Egyptian security sources said on Wednesday.https://t.co/PcjY9b6pRv

— The Jerusalem Post (@Jerusalem_Post) October 11, 2023

Won't be any refugees from this escaping to Egypt

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Probably because Israel would carpet bomb that place and informed Egypt they would do so. I would - you don't give an obvious out to hide hamas leadership.

bonfarr said:

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I know there are some on this thread that have experience with armored vehicles and I have some questions from some of the video clips seen in the initial assault.

One clip was of an Israeli soldier getting pulled from a tank and kidnapped or murdered, I'm not sure what eventually happened to him. The terrorists were all on foot and only carrying small arms from what I saw, how does someone with the protection of a tank end up falling to a bunch of guys with automatic rifles? I didn't see any AT weapons. Did the tank run out of fuel ? It seems like as long as the tank was functional you could just drive away or better yet drive over a bunch of Aloha Snackbars and turn them into Fruit Rollups. I saw video of a captured tank taken back to Gaza and assumed it was the same tank and that it was functional enough to drive away so puzzled how the guy was captured.

Also, don't the Israeli police and guard units have MRAPS they can send into areas with gunmen like that? The cops all showed up in Jeeps and standard police vehicles.

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I wondered the same thing. Maybe threats to execute hostages unless he surrendered.

They can always swim to Greece or Italy.

Egypt does not want new refugees. They have quite a few already from other conflicts. They know the trouble it would cause.

And just as I was viewing that the loud BOOMs began again on the live feed.

P.H. Dexippus said:

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bonfarr said:

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I know there are some on this thread that have experience with armored vehicles and I have some questions from some of the video clips seen in the initial assault.

One clip was of an Israeli soldier getting pulled from a tank and kidnapped or murdered, I'm not sure what eventually happened to him. The terrorists were all on foot and only carrying small arms from what I saw, how does someone with the protection of a tank end up falling to a bunch of guys with automatic rifles? I didn't see any AT weapons. Did the tank run out of fuel ? It seems like as long as the tank was functional you could just drive away or better yet drive over a bunch of Aloha Snackbars and turn them into Fruit Rollups. I saw video of a captured tank taken back to Gaza and assumed it was the same tank and that it was functional enough to drive away so puzzled how the guy was captured.

Also, don't the Israeli police and guard units have MRAPS they can send into areas with gunmen like that? The cops all showed up in Jeeps and standard police vehicles.

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I wondered the same thing. Maybe threats to execute hostages unless he surrendered.

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He looked dead and broken when they pulled him out. I am assuming some sort of explosive got him and they were desecrating his body.

I believe that the military was running a scaled back staffing due to religious holidays. (I may be wrong about that).

zgolfz85 said:

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LMCane said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Aggie_2463 said:

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It's hard for me to truly fathom what some of these Israeli's are dealing with and seeing, because this isn't something many of us over here see. I try to imagine if that was my son who was beheaded, and his body burned. War crimes would be the last thing on my mind as the rage over took me. I imagine this is how all of Israel feels right now. T&P

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Horrifying. Pure evil on display. I would want Gaza turned into a giant crater if that were my child...and I wouldn't give two craps about what the international community and limp-wristed U.S. leadership thought about it.

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Senator Lindsay Graham was saying this exact same thing on Hannity last night.

while I obviously can understand the sentiment, we have to act in the real world.

in the real world- Jews are not going to commit mass genocide and simply carpet bomb women and children in the Gaza strip

both for moral reasons, what is called "Tohar Ha'Neshek" (purity of arms) and also for realpolitik reasons.

Israel is a very small country the size of New Jersey and dependent on allies. they also dont' want to destroy the peace treaties with Egypt/Jordan/Morocco/UAE/Bahrain and Abu Dhabi

what Israel wants is for the civilians to flee most of Gaza, and then we end it with Hamas one on one.

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The problem is that the Hamas terrorists will flee and hide among the civilians like the cowards they are and then wait as long as they have to to regroup and do this **** all over again

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Yep

For those watching the live feeds is cam 3 ahead of cam 2 and then cam 2 is ahead of cam 1?

Trying to tell if these are same explosion but just a little bit of lag

Edit to add: there's lots of explosions right now

Scaled back staffing, cyber attack on early warning alarm systems (coming within a certain distance of the wall sets off an alarm), drone grenades taking out watch towers, multiple simultaneous breaches and they got into the city areas before military and armored police could effectively respond.

That's a good point too. Basically Hamas is going to be the fodder to see how things shake out.

we need to install another shah?

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/11/1205245159/the-aftermath-in-an-israeli-town-hit-by-rocketfire-and-hamas-fighters

Pretty interesting account of some of the initial battles

Also confirms children's heads were chopped off. That's straight from a Israeli special forces Sargeant

The U.S. will not admit they know where any hostages are even if they do know the locations.

LMCane said:

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Question for my Ag brothers-

I see some of the Fox and CNN reports and they are blurring out the videos of the atrocities.

one was the young woman who was kidnapped to Gaza and pulled out of a SUV and covered with blood from being raped.

can the people of the USA understand the depravity of these savages- when they blur out the bodies and the murdered hostages they paraded around in the back of trucks?

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I know which video you are referring to. This is one that haunts me days after seeing it. As a woman, I can't imagine the depravity she experienced.

I saw it, unblurred.

Ben Shapiro posted dozens of videos as a part of his show on Monday. On his show, they were uncensored. I would imagine the networks have to blur for the obvious reasons.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Because they do and believe whatever they're told. They're told to sympathize with its iran because Obama is working on their behalf with vj. And likely many more democrat leaders.

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I meant democrat politicians.