Israel/Hamas going at it

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fka ftc
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In reply to txags92 • 12:33p, 10/9/23
txags92 said:
fka ftc said:
Andrew Dufresne said:
So you're saying these children are inherently evil.


Some folks make a declaration of which sorts of people, countries and religion are acceptable and which are not. Those deemed unacceptable are classified as evildoers whose corpses must be stacked.

Israel's arrogance since its formation / reformation has culpability in the continued violence. The land on which Israel sits has been disputed and changed hands many times over the millennia. Palestinians have a very legitimate claim to the territory and were essentially put on a reservation following WWI and then absolutely following WWII.

I do not condone nor defend their methods and terroristic attacks. But it's not correct for people to just label them as evildoers with no basis for their violence.

Not going to derail, but you can absolutely attribute the ongoing conflict in Israel on what the Brits did following WWI. Happy to defend that statement on another thread but it is not false information.
They were granted certain lands after WWII and Israel was granted certain lands, so both were "put on reservations" after WWII. They almost immediately began attacking Israel to try to take away their land. The Israelis have won the repeated battles and wars that have brought us to today. The "Palestinians" have been offered all manner of solutions to the dispute, including their own country and the talks have stumbled over the right of Israel to exist. As of this time, there is no credible agency with which Israel can negotiate a lasting and durable peace. Nobody in the Gaza strip is willing to coexist with Israel or even to accept their right to exist, so there is nothing for Israel to negotiate with. This war is simply a continuation of an existential struggle for the Israelis, and as with all the others, it was started by the Palestinians and their various puppet masters.


Your rationale is like saying the Native Americans should have been happy with their new desert locales and do not serve any of the incredible reparations / govt assistance they receive to this day.

After WWII, Israel was given the prime real estate and it continues to piss off the Palestinians and Muslims overall.
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fka ftc
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In reply to will25u • 12:35p, 10/9/23
It's sadly going to get very violent and ugly over there and many on both sides will lose lives and suffer unimaginably.

Israel has every right to retaliate to the fullest extent. It is a shame that this has escalated now and so quickly and unfortunately will spread outside of the region.
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will25u
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12:36p, 10/9/23
If anyone is interested in live webcams from over there.

Live Webcams From Gaza | Conflict Zone | Palestine Israel Gaza Strip

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IndividualFreedom
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12:37p, 10/9/23
I have not sifted through all 34 pages......

anyone able to potentially repost the Shani Louk video and the others like it?
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nortex97
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In reply to fka ftc • 12:38p, 10/9/23
AG
Well, the post.

I don't like to think of myself as someone that thinks in 'absolutes' in a complex world of course, but here I just…agree with the sentiment I quoted.

The politics of solving this conflict long term are as complicated as anything on the planet, but for now I just want to see Hamas utterly eradicated, and feel very little to no human/christian sympathy toward the residents of the Gaza Strip that might be harmed in the process. American foreign policy should rightfully be aligned thus toward that goal, imho.
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Bag
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In reply to fka ftc • 12:39p, 10/9/23
AG
fka ftc said:
txags92 said:
fka ftc said:
Andrew Dufresne said:
So you're saying these children are inherently evil.


Some folks make a declaration of which sorts of people, countries and religion are acceptable and which are not. Those deemed unacceptable are classified as evildoers whose corpses must be stacked.

Israel's arrogance since its formation / reformation has culpability in the continued violence. The land on which Israel sits has been disputed and changed hands many times over the millennia. Palestinians have a very legitimate claim to the territory and were essentially put on a reservation following WWI and then absolutely following WWII.

I do not condone nor defend their methods and terroristic attacks. But it's not correct for people to just label them as evildoers with no basis for their violence.

Not going to derail, but you can absolutely attribute the ongoing conflict in Israel on what the Brits did following WWI. Happy to defend that statement on another thread but it is not false information.
They were granted certain lands after WWII and Israel was granted certain lands, so both were "put on reservations" after WWII. They almost immediately began attacking Israel to try to take away their land. The Israelis have won the repeated battles and wars that have brought us to today. The "Palestinians" have been offered all manner of solutions to the dispute, including their own country and the talks have stumbled over the right of Israel to exist. As of this time, there is no credible agency with which Israel can negotiate a lasting and durable peace. Nobody in the Gaza strip is willing to coexist with Israel or even to accept their right to exist, so there is nothing for Israel to negotiate with. This war is simply a continuation of an existential struggle for the Israelis, and as with all the others, it was started by the Palestinians and their various puppet masters.


Your rationale is like saying the Native Americans should have been happy with their new desert locales and do not serve any of the incredible reparations / govt assistance they receive to this day.

After WWII, Israel was given the prime real estate and it continues to piss off the Palestinians and Muslims overall.
revisionist history, wars and battles have consequences. acting as if the native Americans were one homogenous group and they were simply innocent victims in the indian wars is the definition of revisionist history. Sorry your side lost
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deddog
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In reply to will25u • 12:41p, 10/9/23
AG
will25u said:
If anyone is interested in live webcams from over there.

Live Webcams From Gaza | Conflict Zone | Palestine Israel Gaza Strip

Thanks!!
Amazing that they don't have a blackout in place.

Also, you can hear the drones overhead
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Robert L. Peters
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In reply to Bag • 12:41p, 10/9/23
No. This is literally the history.
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SHELTON@TAYLOR
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In reply to deddog • 12:42p, 10/9/23
deddog said:
infinity ag said:
ISR GO GO GO!
Clean up this snakepit!

Israel, like the US, has gotten soft.
Many of the reservists haven't seen combat before. I fear that this is not going to go very well.
Unless the Israelis take the gloves off and use overwhelming air support.
Youre very mistaken. We are at our lowest percent of people who consider themselves patriotic since our inception. Every capable man and woman serves in some capacity, for potentially the most patriotic nation on the planet. They essentially live under attack on a daily basis. They are not soft like us, its like comparing a nerf ball to a naval destroyer
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will25u
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In reply to deddog • 12:42p, 10/9/23
deddog said:
will25u said:
If anyone is interested in live webcams from over there.

Live Webcams From Gaza | Conflict Zone | Palestine Israel Gaza Strip

Thanks!!
Amazing that they don't have a blackout in place.

Also, you can hear the drones overhead
I thought I was seeing lightning, and checked the radar... Seems like they are getting some storms as well.
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Line Ate Member
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In reply to nortex97 • 12:43p, 10/9/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Well, the post.

I don't like to think of myself as someone that thinks in 'absolutes' in a complex world of course, but here I just…agree with the sentiment I quoted.

The politics of solving this conflict long term are as complicated as anything on the planet, but for now I just want to see Hamas utterly eradicated, and feel very little to no human/christian sympathy toward the residents of the Gaza Strip that might be harmed in the process. American foreign policy should rightfully be aligned thus toward that goal, imho.
Sherman's March to the Sea eradicated.
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Bag
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In reply to Robert L. Peters • 12:43p, 10/9/23
AG
Robert L. Peters said:
No. This is literally the history.
no, no it is not, it is however the version of history that feeds your white guilt
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Yukon Cornelius
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In reply to fka ftc • 12:45p, 10/9/23
AG
fka ftc said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Israel's arrogance in wanting to simply exist without their citizens constantly being slaughtered sure is the problem here.


Palestinians have no right to exist?


There are consequences for raping women and children to death and then raping their dead bodies in the middle of streets. Those consequences will be determined by Israel. Not us.
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maddiedou
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12:45p, 10/9/23
AG
For all yall saying it is about the land WRONG

Their religion is to kill that is not islam. Land has nothing to do with it

Also what kind of religion says you should rape and murder girls, mothers, grandmothers

Then parade them around and assault them even after they are dead

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aTmAg
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In reply to fka ftc • 12:46p, 10/9/23
AG
fka ftc said:
txags92 said:
fka ftc said:
Andrew Dufresne said:
So you're saying these children are inherently evil.


Some folks make a declaration of which sorts of people, countries and religion are acceptable and which are not. Those deemed unacceptable are classified as evildoers whose corpses must be stacked.

Israel's arrogance since its formation / reformation has culpability in the continued violence. The land on which Israel sits has been disputed and changed hands many times over the millennia. Palestinians have a very legitimate claim to the territory and were essentially put on a reservation following WWI and then absolutely following WWII.

I do not condone nor defend their methods and terroristic attacks. But it's not correct for people to just label them as evildoers with no basis for their violence.

Not going to derail, but you can absolutely attribute the ongoing conflict in Israel on what the Brits did following WWI. Happy to defend that statement on another thread but it is not false information.
They were granted certain lands after WWII and Israel was granted certain lands, so both were "put on reservations" after WWII. They almost immediately began attacking Israel to try to take away their land. The Israelis have won the repeated battles and wars that have brought us to today. The "Palestinians" have been offered all manner of solutions to the dispute, including their own country and the talks have stumbled over the right of Israel to exist. As of this time, there is no credible agency with which Israel can negotiate a lasting and durable peace. Nobody in the Gaza strip is willing to coexist with Israel or even to accept their right to exist, so there is nothing for Israel to negotiate with. This war is simply a continuation of an existential struggle for the Israelis, and as with all the others, it was started by the Palestinians and their various puppet masters.


Your rationale is like saying the Native Americans should have been happy with their new desert locales and do not serve any of the incredible reparations / govt assistance they receive to this day.

After WWII, Israel was given the prime real estate and it continues to piss off the Palestinians and Muslims overall.
Native Americans should have been happy. If they weren't savage a-holes for hundreds of years, then perhaps they would have earned better settlements. Instead, they continued to act like brutal savages by killing innocent men, women, and even young children. They should be counting their lucky stars that every single one of them weren't wiped out.
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txags92
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In reply to Nanomachines son • 12:47p, 10/9/23
AG
Nanomachines son said:
Teslag said:
Andrew Dufresne said:
I feel bad for all the innocent kids caught up in the middle of this ordeal.

The people raping and desecrating bodies were innocent kids in Gaza 10 to 15 years ago.


So Anders Breivik was right when he killed a bunch of kids who were the sons and daughters of communist leaders in Norway? He basically wiped out a generation of future leaders for the left in Norway.

This type of justification gets you going down rabbit holes and endless cycles of violence. This is extreme dehumanization that creates a lot more problems than it solves. Israel-Palestine is what you get when both sides use the argument and don't care about anything regarding the enemy only so long as they are dead. I don't ever see this violence ending unless one side is dead and gone for good.
The problem with modern warfare is that we do not let the wars run to their natural conclusion. In WWII and before, wars were fought until one side was utterly defeated and the losing side lost the will or ability to continue to fight. They would surrender when the idea of giving up and capitulating to the enemy was preferable to continuing to fight. Now, with the advent of the UN and other international orgs, we stop wars when one side starts to lose too badly, but before we reach the point where anybody is actually defeated and capitulates. So instead of a defeated population working to rebuild their country with the knowledge that they were beaten, we get international groups helping to rebuild, while the previously losing side rearms and prepares to try again.

We need to let Israel keep going this time until the Palestinians lose the will to continue to fight back permanently. And then we need to place a government over them that will demand that anybody who chooses to continue to live there must accept the right of Israel to exist. They have proven that they are incapable of governing themselves without resorting to violence against their neighbor.
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AgLiving06
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12:47p, 10/9/23


This is a very tough watch, but Shapiro uses Hamas's own videos to show just what kind of people we are dealing with.
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deddog
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In reply to SHELTON@TAYLOR • 12:48p, 10/9/23
AG
SHELTON@TAYLOR said:
deddog said:
infinity ag said:
ISR GO GO GO!
Clean up this snakepit!

Israel, like the US, has gotten soft.
Many of the reservists haven't seen combat before. I fear that this is not going to go very well.
Unless the Israelis take the gloves off and use overwhelming air support.
Youre very mistaken. We are at our lowest percent of people who consider themselves patriotic since our inception. Every capable man and woman serves in some capacity, for potentially the most patriotic nation on the planet. They essentially live under attack on a daily basis. They are not soft like us, its like comparing a nerf ball to a naval destroyer
I remember Israeli reservists being shocked by the amount and ferocity of resistance they got from Hezbollah the last time they had a war (maybe 4 -5 years ago). Hamas isn't as powerful, or co-ordinated as Hezbollah, but if Hezbollah gets involved, then Israel is in a whole world of trouble.

At the same time, i think Hezbollah wouldn't want to risk Israeli wrath, because this is clearly different from a regular terrorist attack.
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outofstateaggie
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In reply to DeangeloVickers • 12:48p, 10/9/23
AG
DeangeloVickers said:



What the hell did they think the response was going to be? Israel wasn't going to just sit on their damn hands.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to will25u • 12:48p, 10/9/23
AG
will25u said:


Well, sucks for them. This is Israel's 9/11, and they're not as nice as we are when it comes to getting retribution. Can't say the palestinians didn't bring this on themselves with the never ending support of terrorism and hamas
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Robert L. Peters
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In reply to Bag • 12:48p, 10/9/23
Bag said:
Robert L. Peters said:
No. This is literally the history.
no, no it is not, it is however the version of history that feeds your white guilt


I got zero guilt for things done before I was alive.
What you say, Paper Champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog, a dog, you hear me!
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nortex97
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In reply to maddiedou • 12:49p, 10/9/23
AG
maddiedou said:
For all yall saying it is about the land WRONG

Their religion is to kill that is not islam. Land has nothing to do with it

Also what kind of religion says you should rape and murder girls, mothers, grandmothers

Then parade them around and assault them even after they are dead

If it were about the land issues, Egypt/Jordan/Syria coulda given the 'refugees' land, and the UN wouldn't be funding the baby population boom the past 70 years.

Guess what, it's not about the land, or some special pieces of land some mythologized figure took a magic carpet ride from.
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deddog
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In reply to outofstateaggie • 12:52p, 10/9/23
AG
outofstateaggie said:
DeangeloVickers said:

What the hell did they think the response was going to be? Israel wasn't going to just sit in their damn hands.
I think there's a really good chance that a lot of the "forward areas" have already been evacuated by Hamas. They will try to draw in a land invasion, and stretch Israeli lines (and yes i know gaza is small)
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to deddog • 12:52p, 10/9/23
AG
Hezbollah and hamas compete for recruits and resources to a degree. Hezbollah would probably rather sit on the sidelines and watch hamas get destroyed than help them.
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sharpdressedman
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In reply to SHELTON@TAYLOR • 12:52p, 10/9/23
SHELTON@TAYLOR said:
They are cutting off food, water, electricity, money, HERE COMES THE PAIN. I hope they dont stop until every building is toppled and nothing breathes
Yep. Israeli officials repeatedly using words like obliterate, destroy, eliminate, etc. indicate a rage that will not be satisfied until Hamas is reduced to a grease spot on the Gaza strip. Moreover, I am confident that Iran and Hezbollah will get smacked if they choose to participate.
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fka ftc
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In reply to Bag • 12:52p, 10/9/23
Bag said:
fka ftc said:
txags92 said:
fka ftc said:
Andrew Dufresne said:
So you're saying these children are inherently evil.


Some folks make a declaration of which sorts of people, countries and religion are acceptable and which are not. Those deemed unacceptable are classified as evildoers whose corpses must be stacked.

Israel's arrogance since its formation / reformation has culpability in the continued violence. The land on which Israel sits has been disputed and changed hands many times over the millennia. Palestinians have a very legitimate claim to the territory and were essentially put on a reservation following WWI and then absolutely following WWII.

I do not condone nor defend their methods and terroristic attacks. But it's not correct for people to just label them as evildoers with no basis for their violence.

Not going to derail, but you can absolutely attribute the ongoing conflict in Israel on what the Brits did following WWI. Happy to defend that statement on another thread but it is not false information.
They were granted certain lands after WWII and Israel was granted certain lands, so both were "put on reservations" after WWII. They almost immediately began attacking Israel to try to take away their land. The Israelis have won the repeated battles and wars that have brought us to today. The "Palestinians" have been offered all manner of solutions to the dispute, including their own country and the talks have stumbled over the right of Israel to exist. As of this time, there is no credible agency with which Israel can negotiate a lasting and durable peace. Nobody in the Gaza strip is willing to coexist with Israel or even to accept their right to exist, so there is nothing for Israel to negotiate with. This war is simply a continuation of an existential struggle for the Israelis, and as with all the others, it was started by the Palestinians and their various puppet masters.


Your rationale is like saying the Native Americans should have been happy with their new desert locales and do not serve any of the incredible reparations / govt assistance they receive to this day.

After WWII, Israel was given the prime real estate and it continues to piss off the Palestinians and Muslims overall.
revisionist history, wars and battles have consequences. acting as if the native Americans were one homogenous group and they were simply innocent victims in the indian wars is the definition of revisionist history. Sorry your side lost


Agree. BTW - Only 1/16th of me lost the war between colonials / Americans and the Indians.

Also agree regarding the tribal nature of the Indians and their infighting. You can draw strong, almost absolute, correlations to the conflicts in the Middle East.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to outofstateaggie • 12:53p, 10/9/23
AG
outofstateaggie said:
DeangeloVickers said:



What the hell did they think the response was going to be? Israel wasn't going to just sit in their damn hands.


If they think that's bad, just wait til the bulldozers get there...
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SHELTON@TAYLOR
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 12:54p, 10/9/23
ABATTBQ11 said:
Hezbollah and hamas compete for recruits and resources to a degree. Hezbollah would probably rather sit on the sidelines and watch hamas get destroyed than help them.
nah, think of a hyena eating the scaps a lion didnt eat, and a vulture waiting for the leftovers on the bones. Thats Iran hamas and hezbollah
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Cliff.Booth
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12:55p, 10/9/23
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Claverack
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In reply to maddiedou • 12:55p, 10/9/23
maddiedou said:
For all yall saying it is about the land WRONG

Their religion is to kill that is not islam. Land has nothing to do with it

Also what kind of religion says you should rape and murder girls, mothers, grandmothers

Then parade them around and assault them even after they are dead


The best option Israel has now is the one taken by Charles Martel in 732.

Kill as many as you can and drive them out from your homeland.

When Hamas strikes again, then Israel needs to make certain that strike takes place a considerable distance away and not right next door to them.



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fka ftc
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In reply to Yukon Cornelius • 12:55p, 10/9/23
Yukon Cornelius said:
fka ftc said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Israel's arrogance in wanting to simply exist without their citizens constantly being slaughtered sure is the problem here.


Palestinians have no right to exist?


There are consequences for raping women and children to death and then raping their dead bodies in the middle of streets. Those consequences will be determined by Israel. Not us.


Agree, and the harshest of consequences should be merited out. And should be by Israel and not us as you suggest.
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Swollen Thumb
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12:56p, 10/9/23
AG
I don't see how you can even attempt to co-exist with a group who rejects any alternative to the eradication of all humans who does not share their religious belief. That position makes it a kill or be killed situation for every other group on the planet, even if that is not what we want. How can anyone sympathize with a group who's stated mission is to kill everyone else?
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SHELTON@TAYLOR
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 12:56p, 10/9/23
ABATTBQ11 said:
outofstateaggie said:
DeangeloVickers said:



What the hell did they think the response was going to be? Israel wasn't going to just sit in their damn hands.


If they think that's bad, just wait til the bulldozers get there...
Time to invest in Halliburton, KBR, and Oshkosh. Thats a free stock tip
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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 12:57p, 10/9/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Well, the post.

I don't like to think of myself as someone that thinks in 'absolutes' in a complex world of course, but here I just…agree with the sentiment I quoted.

The politics of solving this conflict long term are as complicated as anything on the planet, but for now I just want to see Hamas utterly eradicated, and feel very little to no human/christian sympathy toward the residents of the Gaza Strip that might be harmed in the process. American foreign policy should rightfully be aligned thus toward that goal, imho.
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Pinochet
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12:57p, 10/9/23

But I thought all the free Palestine idiots were telling us the hostages were not mistreated and that there was no proof they had been massacred or raped? What about now? Any Palestinian apologists want to address this?
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