Israel/Hamas going at it

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Ag with kids
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In reply to LMCane • 1:17p, 11/4/23
AG
LMCane said:
well we just saw what 3000 Hamas terrorists could do in an invasion into Israel

what would happen if 10,000 Hizbullah terrorists had done the same thing on 7 October?

It's pretty shocking now that Hizbullah did NOT launch a simultaneous attack-

there are more Israeli civilians close to the Northern border than to the Gaza border.
I said Hezbollah could cause problems for Israel. But that Hamas attack was not a military offensive in any way. THAT was my point.

That and the fact that they don't have 100K fighters...
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Psycho Bunny
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1:18p, 11/4/23
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Not a Bot
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In reply to txags92 • 3:23p, 11/4/23
AG
Not sure where the link ended up on this thread, but I posted an article a day or two ago published by an Egyptian newspaper talking about how Iran may not have as much control of Hezbollah as they would like. Also details why Hezbollah may be hesitant to attack due to material and human losses fighting the Syrian Civil War and domestic problems in Lebanon.
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clobby
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4:00p, 11/4/23
AG
Some action on Willys stream
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txags92
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In reply to Not a Bot • 4:43p, 11/4/23
AG
Not a Bot said:
Not sure where the link ended up on this thread, but I posted an article a day or two ago published by an Egyptian newspaper talking about how Iran may not have as much control of Hezbollah as they would like. Also details why Hezbollah may be hesitant to attack due to material and human losses fighting the Syrian Civil War and domestic problems in Lebanon.


Having their christian partners in the government demand that they pull back from southern lebanon and not commit a "crime against lebanon" by provoking an israeli invasion probably gave them some pause.
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nortex97
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In reply to Swollen Thumb • 7:34p, 11/4/23
AG
Sealed? LOL, their pimps are literally at the White House gates.



And in all seriousness, this is a good thread, though these guys sometimes get things very wrong;



good events tonight:

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YouBet
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7:38p, 11/4/23
AG
I wonder how many of these Hamas cowards are crying in the fetal position at this point.
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bthotugigem05
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10:46p, 11/4/23
AG
Some bullets on why this conflict, as it sits, is impossible to resolve:

  • Read about the formation of Al Qaeda and the historic of Islamic jihad. It almost always depends on a population of poor, uneducated people who are easily radicalized and are more than happy to become martyrs while those encouraging their martyrdom bask in relative safety elsewhere. Gazans are largely poor and uneducated, Hamas leadership views them as useful idiots more than as peers
  • Hamas is not stupid. They know that social media and the mainstream news media are their protection. They push propaganda that is lapped up by media desperate for the latest bleeding headline in an attempt to find a villain. The media do not care who the villain is as long as there is something fresh to write about. Want to know where the hostages are? Look in the tunnels and below hospitals and schools.
  • Hamas terrorists are indistinguishable from everyday Gazans when they choose to be, there are no uniforms in this conflict. It is impossible to "eradicate Hamas" at the soldier level, it is only possible at the leadership level
  • Palestine, as a concept, is more useful to the Middle East as a problem than as an actual state. Across the Middle East, Palestineans are used as a source of fundraising for jihadist organizations and as a rallying cry to foment hatred against Israel, Jews, and the USA. The average Palestinean is young, poor, uneducated, and likely radicalized from what schooling they do have. Why would anywhere else in the Middle East want to absorb that kind of person at scale?
  • What Palestine needs is industry and an economy. There have been prominent Israelis (both Jews and Arabs) who have set up offices in Gaza to provide good-paying jobs to Gazans in an effort to build an economic pathway to a better solution to all of this. One of those who had done this lost his daughter in the October 7 attacks
  • The worst thing for Hamas would be an educated, literate, and financially stable Gaza. Hamas has an existential incentive to prevent this from ever happening and they have proven talented at keeping their people poor, uneducated, and hopeless. Essentially, Hamas is running a martyr training camp with a population of 2 million people
  • The hardest part about this is the radical appetite for jihad (which, it needs to be said, is FAR different than the everyday practice of Islam, as most Muslims practice culturally more than religiously) and the duration they approach it with. They will wait for decades if they need to

The vision for Gaza and for the West Bank has to become more about opportunity and prosperity than anything else. If it is just about might and power, it will continue to be a protracted stress on the region and the world.
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Not a Bot
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 10:53p, 11/4/23
AG
Agree with a lot of that. Prosperity grows under the blanket of security.
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samurai_science
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 1:40a, 11/5/23
bthotugigem05 said:
Some bullets on why this conflict, as it sits, is impossible to resolve:

  • Read about the formation of Al Qaeda and the historic of Islamic jihad. It almost always depends on a population of poor, uneducated people who are easily radicalized and are more than happy to become martyrs while those encouraging their martyrdom bask in relative safety elsewhere. Gazans are largely poor and uneducated, Hamas leadership views them as useful idiots more than as peers
  • Hamas is not stupid. They know that social media and the mainstream news media are their protection. They push propaganda that is lapped up by media desperate for the latest bleeding headline in an attempt to find a villain. The media do not care who the villain is as long as there is something fresh to write about. Want to know where the hostages are? Look in the tunnels and below hospitals and schools.
  • Hamas terrorists are indistinguishable from everyday Gazans when they choose to be, there are no uniforms in this conflict. It is impossible to "eradicate Hamas" at the soldier level, it is only possible at the leadership level
  • Palestine, as a concept, is more useful to the Middle East as a problem than as an actual state. Across the Middle East, Palestineans are used as a source of fundraising for jihadist organizations and as a rallying cry to foment hatred against Israel, Jews, and the USA. The average Palestinean is young, poor, uneducated, and likely radicalized from what schooling they do have. Why would anywhere else in the Middle East want to absorb that kind of person at scale?
  • What Palestine needs is industry and an economy. There have been prominent Israelis (both Jews and Arabs) who have set up offices in Gaza to provide good-paying jobs to Gazans in an effort to build an economic pathway to a better solution to all of this. One of those who had done this lost his daughter in the October 7 attacks
  • The worst thing for Hamas would be an educated, literate, and financially stable Gaza. Hamas has an existential incentive to prevent this from ever happening and they have proven talented at keeping their people poor, uneducated, and hopeless. Essentially, Hamas is running a martyr training camp with a population of 2 million people
  • The hardest part about this is the radical appetite for jihad (which, it needs to be said, is FAR different than the everyday practice of Islam, as most Muslims practice culturally more than religiously) and the duration they approach it with. They will wait for decades if they need to

The vision for Gaza and for the West Bank has to become more about opportunity and prosperity than anything else. If it is just about might and power, it will continue to be a protracted stress on the region and the world.
The Palestinian people will never have an industry and economy. They were given that when Israel LEFT the first time, it was all destroyed.
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bthotugigem05
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3:18a, 11/5/23
AG
Then it must be rebuilt. The West needs to paint a vision for Palestine of existence outside of Hamas's power/control instead of just talking about killing Hamas, because what fills the vacuum that strategy creates may be worse.

All of the people (and countries) currently talking about freeing Palestine should be the first to line up to purchase products made by Palestinean companies.
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nortex97
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 3:35a, 11/5/23
AG
Not really. People can't be forced to be civilized/industrious. It will have to be forcibly occupied for decades and the welfare regime we fund to create the population boom has to be ended. If the Arabs want to send them money, so be it.









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nortex97
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6:03a, 11/5/23
AG
I assumed as well this was just to be vile but the images/video from the O7 attack were also to document the murders for pay, it appears.





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ttu_85
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 6:14a, 11/5/23
bthotugigem05 said:
Some bullets on why this conflict, as it sits, is impossible to resolve:

  • Read about the formation of Al Qaeda and the historic of Islamic jihad. It almost always depends on a population of poor, uneducated people who are easily radicalized and are more than happy to become martyrs while those encouraging their martyrdom bask in relative safety elsewhere. Gazans are largely poor and uneducated, Hamas leadership views them as useful idiots more than as peers
  • Hamas is not stupid. They know that social media and the mainstream news media are their protection. They push propaganda that is lapped up by media desperate for the latest bleeding headline in an attempt to find a villain. The media do not care who the villain is as long as there is something fresh to write about. Want to know where the hostages are? Look in the tunnels and below hospitals and schools.
  • Hamas terrorists are indistinguishable from everyday Gazans when they choose to be, there are no uniforms in this conflict. It is impossible to "eradicate Hamas" at the soldier level, it is only possible at the leadership level
  • Palestine, as a concept, is more useful to the Middle East as a problem than as an actual state. Across the Middle East, Palestineans are used as a source of fundraising for jihadist organizations and as a rallying cry to foment hatred against Israel, Jews, and the USA. The average Palestinean is young, poor, uneducated, and likely radicalized from what schooling they do have. Why would anywhere else in the Middle East want to absorb that kind of person at scale?
  • What Palestine needs is industry and an economy. There have been prominent Israelis (both Jews and Arabs) who have set up offices in Gaza to provide good-paying jobs to Gazans in an effort to build an economic pathway to a better solution to all of this. One of those who had done this lost his daughter in the October 7 attacks
  • The worst thing for Hamas would be an educated, literate, and financially stable Gaza. Hamas has an existential incentive to prevent this from ever happening and they have proven talented at keeping their people poor, uneducated, and hopeless. Essentially, Hamas is running a martyr training camp with a population of 2 million people
  • The hardest part about this is the radical appetite for jihad (which, it needs to be said, is FAR different than the everyday practice of Islam, as most Muslims practice culturally more than religiously) and the duration they approach it with. They will wait for decades if they need to

The vision for Gaza and for the West Bank has to become more about opportunity and prosperity than anything else. If it is just about might and power, it will continue to be a protracted stress on the region and the world.
Nice post. logical, readable, well meaning, lots of facts. It's something a good person truly seeking peace would write and believe.

But,

This has been going on for 70 years. Most if not all of this has been tried by other true peace makers. Unfortunately, even the Egyptians and Jordanians and others have not only given up on the Palestinians but have grown to despise them. Why ? And remember the Palestinian people voted for Hamas.

Now they went in and slaughtered men, women, and babies. They have gone over to a dark place that can only be rectified by blood. They put themselves here. They had many options to makes changes and showed no real interest in peace. Now the bill is due.

Like I said good post. Its too bad the evil that resides there has no interest in what you and other peace makers propose. If anything they will exploit it to shed even more innocent blood.
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nortex97
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In reply to ttu_85 • 6:49a, 11/5/23
AG
They have said, over and over this isn't about land and that they want to do it again and again (O7). I don't know why people refuse to believe them.



Their supporters (globally) consider…support for Israel a hate crime. Think about that.



The navet and abject stupidity of prior times and efforts (Carter/Clinton etc) just cannot be repeated to 'negotiate a peace' with these monstrous people. They have to be conquered and subjugated.
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W
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7:13a, 11/5/23
AG
so folks want to go back to the "hearts and minds" strategy

read a history book
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JW
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7:46a, 11/5/23
AG
Only thing worse than starting wars is not letting them finish.
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YouBet
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In reply to ttu_85 • 8:12a, 11/5/23
AG
ttu_85 said:
bthotugigem05 said:
Some bullets on why this conflict, as it sits, is impossible to resolve:

  • Read about the formation of Al Qaeda and the historic of Islamic jihad. It almost always depends on a population of poor, uneducated people who are easily radicalized and are more than happy to become martyrs while those encouraging their martyrdom bask in relative safety elsewhere. Gazans are largely poor and uneducated, Hamas leadership views them as useful idiots more than as peers
  • Hamas is not stupid. They know that social media and the mainstream news media are their protection. They push propaganda that is lapped up by media desperate for the latest bleeding headline in an attempt to find a villain. The media do not care who the villain is as long as there is something fresh to write about. Want to know where the hostages are? Look in the tunnels and below hospitals and schools.
  • Hamas terrorists are indistinguishable from everyday Gazans when they choose to be, there are no uniforms in this conflict. It is impossible to "eradicate Hamas" at the soldier level, it is only possible at the leadership level
  • Palestine, as a concept, is more useful to the Middle East as a problem than as an actual state. Across the Middle East, Palestineans are used as a source of fundraising for jihadist organizations and as a rallying cry to foment hatred against Israel, Jews, and the USA. The average Palestinean is young, poor, uneducated, and likely radicalized from what schooling they do have. Why would anywhere else in the Middle East want to absorb that kind of person at scale?
  • What Palestine needs is industry and an economy. There have been prominent Israelis (both Jews and Arabs) who have set up offices in Gaza to provide good-paying jobs to Gazans in an effort to build an economic pathway to a better solution to all of this. One of those who had done this lost his daughter in the October 7 attacks
  • The worst thing for Hamas would be an educated, literate, and financially stable Gaza. Hamas has an existential incentive to prevent this from ever happening and they have proven talented at keeping their people poor, uneducated, and hopeless. Essentially, Hamas is running a martyr training camp with a population of 2 million people
  • The hardest part about this is the radical appetite for jihad (which, it needs to be said, is FAR different than the everyday practice of Islam, as most Muslims practice culturally more than religiously) and the duration they approach it with. They will wait for decades if they need to

The vision for Gaza and for the West Bank has to become more about opportunity and prosperity than anything else. If it is just about might and power, it will continue to be a protracted stress on the region and the world.
Nice post. logical, readable, well meaning, lots of facts. It's something a good person truly seeking peace would write and believe.

But,

This has been going on for 70 years. Most if not all of this has been tried by other true peace makers. Unfortunately, even the Egyptians and Jordanians and others have not only given up on the Palestinians but have grown to despise them. Why ? And remember the Palestinian people voted for Hamas.

Now they went in and slaughtered men, women, and babies. They have gone over to a dark place that can only be rectified by blood. They put themselves here. They had many options to makes changes and showed no real interest in peace. Now the bill is due.

Like I said good post. Its too bad the evil that resides there has no interest in what you and other peace makers propose. If anything they will exploit it to shed even more innocent blood.
Agreed. I will go back to normal people (like us) trying to apply rational, logical thought to a culture and people who do not think, act, or live that way.

It's futile.
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dmart90
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 8:16a, 11/5/23
AG
That is reasonable, well thought out, and logical. I truly wish it would work, but I believe we are well past that point now.

A few random thoughts of my own:
* Why are no world leaders calling for the Hamas terrorists in Gaza to surrender?
* Hamas leaders outside of Gaza are cowards.
* I keep seeing those Hamas cowards interviewed in places all over the world. Can someone explain why Interpol or the CIA isn't out arresting those clowns? They are, by definition, known terrorists.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to bthotugigem05 • 8:37a, 11/5/23
It's too late.

The only remaining solution is to remove hamas, it's leaders and members from the planet and make the consequences of such belief so unbearable even the poor and stupid understand to not support its tenets.

Much like how the Japanese or Germans had to suffer to rid themselves of ideologies incompatible with a modern world, so will the Palestinians. The payment is due.
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Hogties
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In reply to JW • 8:42a, 11/5/23
AG
JW said:
Only thing worse than starting wars is not letting them finish.


Bingo. Cease fires solve nothing. Armistices solve nothing. Victory is the only way wars solve anything.

Within 30 minutes of seeing the Oct 7 reports I told my fianc, "the world is not prepared for what Israel is about to do in Gaza."

That world opinion would turn against Israel was a given. The only question is if the US won't abandon Israel and if Israel goes all the way.

All the way until Palestinians in Gaza, not politicians in Bolivia, not people in Turkey, not the UN, but the Palestinians in Gaza beg the Israelis to stop, they surrender, and Gaza accepts the occupancy and necessary re-engineering of their political lives. Just like Japan and Germany did.

And the people of Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc didn't tell Yamamoto to bomb Pearl Harbor. But they paid the price for the miscalculations of their leaders. As will the people of Gaza.

As someone said earlier, read a history book. It's the way of the world since time immemorial.

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TheGreatEscape
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8:45a, 11/5/23
Lot of action on this live cam

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Bellards Boys
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8:47a, 11/5/23
[We remove posts that are derails to the update nature of this thread. We've been very clear on that in numerous staff notes throughout the thread. You're free to make that same post in a different thread that doesn't have as narrow a scope as this one. We're trying to keep this one on topic so that readers can post and read updates easily without other clutter. Admittedly that line has some grey to it, but we're doing the best we can. Calling out moderation on the thread will result in timeouts, which will increase for repetitive occurrences -- Staff]
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Whirligigs
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In reply to Hogties • 8:55a, 11/5/23
Hogties said:
JW said:
Only thing worse than starting wars is not letting them finish.


Bingo. Cease fires solve nothing. Armistices solve nothing. Victory is the only way wars solve anything.

Within 30 minutes of seeing the Oct 7 reports I told my fianc, "the world is not prepared for what Israel is about to do in Gaza."

That world opinion would turn against Israel was a given. The only question is if the US won't abandon Israel and if Israel goes all the way.

All the way until Palestinians in Gaza, not politicians in Bolivia, not people in Turkey, not the UN, but the Palestinians in Gaza beg the Israelis to stop, they surrender, and Gaza accepts the occupancy and necessary re-engineering of their political lives. Just like Japan and Germany did.

And the people of Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc didn't tell Yamamoto to bomb Pearl Harbor. But they paid the price for the miscalculations of their leaders. As will the people of Gaza.

As someone said earlier, read a history book. It's the way of the world since time immemorial.



Yup, wars should be the last resort but if you commit to it, the goal has to be complete destruction of your enemy. And you better win too.
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TheGreatEscape
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In reply to Whirligigs • 9:24a, 11/5/23
Whirligigs said:
Hogties said:
JW said:
Only thing worse than starting wars is not letting them finish.


Bingo. Cease fires solve nothing. Armistices solve nothing. Victory is the only way wars solve anything.

Within 30 minutes of seeing the Oct 7 reports I told my fianc, "the world is not prepared for what Israel is about to do in Gaza."

That world opinion would turn against Israel was a given. The only question is if the US won't abandon Israel and if Israel goes all the way.

All the way until Palestinians in Gaza, not politicians in Bolivia, not people in Turkey, not the UN, but the Palestinians in Gaza beg the Israelis to stop, they surrender, and Gaza accepts the occupancy and necessary re-engineering of their political lives. Just like Japan and Germany did.

And the people of Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc didn't tell Yamamoto to bomb Pearl Harbor. But they paid the price for the miscalculations of their leaders. As will the people of Gaza.

As someone said earlier, read a history book. It's the way of the world since time immemorial.



Yup, wars should be the last resort but if you commit to it, the goal has to be complete destruction of your enemy. And you better win too.


Yep. You have to pound them into submission first.
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YouBet
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9:28a, 11/5/23
AG
Quote:
Separately, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday criticized his heritage minister, Amihai Eliyahu, after the cabinet member said that dropping an atomic bomb on the Gaza Strip was "one of the possibilities" for Israeli action. Netanyahu said Eliyahu's statements "are not based in reality."
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Aust Ag
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In reply to YouBet • 10:01a, 11/5/23
AG
Yeah, let's just stick to the original plan.
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XXXVII
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:39a, 11/5/23
nortex97 said:
They have said, over and over this isn't about land and that they want to do it again and again (O7). I don't know why people refuse to believe them.



Their supporters (globally) consider…support for Israel a hate crime. Think about that.



The navet and abject stupidity of prior times and efforts (Carter/Clinton etc) just cannot be repeated to 'negotiate a peace' with these monstrous people. They have to be conquered and exterminated.


FIFY
DeSantis 2024

FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
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Pizza
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12:47p, 11/5/23


Israel's Defense Minister: Gazans Can Help Us Shorten The War By Killing Top Hamas Leaders

https://www.dailywire.com/news/israels-defense-minister-gazans-can-help-us-shorten-the-war-by-killing-top-hamas-leaders

Israel is going to subvert them into the ground from every imaginable angle.
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YouBet
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In reply to Pizza • 1:09p, 11/5/23
AG
Pluralizes Everythings said:


Israel's Defense Minister: Gazans Can Help Us Shorten The War By Killing Top Hamas Leaders

https://www.dailywire.com/news/israels-defense-minister-gazans-can-help-us-shorten-the-war-by-killing-top-hamas-leaders

Israel is going to subvert them into the ground from every imaginable angle.


Brilliant. Create an insurgence within the insurgency.
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Pizza
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1:19p, 11/5/23
Another ipdate I picked up through fox:

Eliyahu has been relieved of his duties and will no longer participate in cabinet meetings, though it is unclear how long his suspension will last. The minister had told an interviewer that nuclear weapons were a possibility during an appearance on Radio Kol Berama this weekend.


Israel is smart, and they're moderating where they need to.

I wonder if every living hamas official realizes they're going to die within the next few years?
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richardag
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:42p, 11/5/23
nortex97 said:
I assumed as well this was just to be vile but the images/video from the O7 attack were also to document the murders for pay, it appears.
…,,,,…
Quote from the 1st article
  • Because the U.S. provides aid to the PA, the U.S. is indirectly paying for this terrorism.
Quote from the 2nd article
  • The Palestinian Authority pays monthly salaries to 5,500 prisoners in Israeli prisons, including terrorists
  • The PA honors terrorists who have killed civilians, presenting them as heroes and role models
  • The PA glorifies terror attacks as heroic, including suicide bombings
  • The PA funds these salaries and activities from its general budget
-------------------------------------------------------
US funding of the Palestinian Authority:
  • The US funds the PA general budget
  • US law prohibits funding of any person who "... engages in, or has engaged in, terrorist activity…"
  • US law prohibits funding "for the purpose of recognizing or otherwise honoring individuals who commit, or have committed acts of terrorism."

Our government bureaucracies have to know this and this is proof of the absolute moral corruption in our government. These sick *******s are paying for the murders of people with our tax money.

This bull**** has got to stop.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
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Ag87H2O
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In reply to Hogties • 5:50p, 11/5/23
AG
Hogties said:
JW said:
Only thing worse than starting wars is not letting them finish.


Bingo. Cease fires solve nothing. Armistices solve nothing. Victory is the only way wars solve anything.

Within 30 minutes of seeing the Oct 7 reports I told my fianc, "the world is not prepared for what Israel is about to do in Gaza."

That world opinion would turn against Israel was a given. The only question is if the US won't abandon Israel and if Israel goes all the way.

All the way until Palestinians in Gaza, not politicians in Bolivia, not people in Turkey, not the UN, but the Palestinians in Gaza beg the Israelis to stop, they surrender, and Gaza accepts the occupancy and necessary re-engineering of their political lives. Just like Japan and Germany did.

And the people of Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc didn't tell Yamamoto to bomb Pearl Harbor. But they paid the price for the miscalculations of their leaders. As will the people of Gaza.

As someone said earlier, read a history book. It's the way of the world since time immemorial.

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(Ahed Tamini has been used her entire life by the "Palestinians" and her parents as a useful propaganda tool, partly because she has light skin/hair/eyes, and was believable in the productions. She's horrible.)









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