He should have shot that nut job in the foot!

I was in a sales meeting with co workers recently in Chicago. A very liberal co worker that I actually like talking to always brings up firearms when I am around. Half because I am from Texas and half because he knows I like to shoot competitively.

He asked how many times I have shown my pistol to scare somebody away. I told him never and not only that but you don't pull a firearm of any sorts out unless its time to pull the trigger. He was dumbfounded. He couldn't understand the concept. He gave me a few scenarios and in everyone I told him the legal and also best thing to do was just leave.

He then commented about Florida and stand your ground. He seemed to think people in Florida and to a lesser extent Texas are routinely showing people pistols to end hostile situations.

It was all friendly but also odd and revealing of how the liberal mind works.

AG81 said:

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Got no problem with this shooting. Have a big problem with a law against firing a gun in a building. If I use my gun to stop a mass shooter in a building, I'm going to jail. Just moronic.

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The statute defines it as an "unlawful" firing inside of a building. True self defense and defense of others would be considered lawful.

Quote:

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18.2-279. Discharging firearms or missiles within or at building or dwelling house; penalty.

If any person maliciously discharges a firearm within any building when occupied by one or more persons in such a manner as to endanger the life or lives of such person or persons, or maliciously shoots at, or maliciously throws any missile at or against any dwelling house or other building when occupied by one or more persons, whereby the life or lives of any such person or persons may be put in peril, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 4 felony. In the event of the death of any person, resulting from such malicious shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of murder in the second degree. However, if the homicide is willful, deliberate and premeditated, he is guilty of murder in the first degree.

If any such act be done unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony; and, in the event of the death of any person resulting from such unlawful shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. If any person willfully discharges a firearm within or shoots at any school building whether occupied or not, he is guilty of a Class 4 felony.

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That's some Wild West **** right there. Dumb punk harasses a guy, but you can't just shoot someone. I'm a big 2A guy and carry quite often, but never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

zephyr88 said:

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never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

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While I agree with your assessment, I'm betting the defense wasn't that he was "mouthy".

The defense should be "I feared for my life".

And as several have said in previous posts, you don't even draw a weapon unless you are in fear for your life.

zephyr88 said:

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That's some Wild West **** right there. Dumb punk harasses a guy, but you can't just shoot someone. I'm a big 2A guy and carry quite often, but never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

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It should be clear from this thread that I'm not a "big 2A guy", but even I can see in that video that the encounter was more than being a mouthy *******. The delivery guy made several attempts to break off contact with the YouTuber, but he kept getting back in the the delivery guy's face.

Maybe that is the "middle ground" I am seeking.

The Tuber is clearly being a dick. I'll give him that. IMO delivery man's life was not in jeopardy and his lethal response did not demonstrate good judgement.

SuhrThang said:

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He should have shot that nut job in the foot!

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Not in the foot. Dead offenders are not repeat offenders.

Madman said:

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I was in a sales meeting with co workers recently in Chicago. A very liberal co worker that I actually like talking to always brings up firearms when I am around. Half because I am from Texas and half because he knows I like to shoot competitively.

He asked how many times I have shown my pistol to scare somebody away. I told him never and not only that but you don't pull a firearm of any sorts out unless its time to pull the trigger. He was dumbfounded. He couldn't understand the concept. He gave me a few scenarios and in everyone I told him the legal and also best thing to do was just leave.

He then commented about Florida and stand your ground. He seemed to think people in Florida and to a lesser extent Texas are routinely showing people pistols to end hostile situations.

It was all friendly but also odd and revealing of how the liberal mind works.

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The flaw in the last paragraph is the presumption that the liberal mind "works".

zephyr88 said:

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The Tuber is clearly being a dick. I'll give him that. IMO delivery man's life was not in jeopardy and his lethal response did not demonstrate good judgement.

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You weren't there. It wasn't your life. Your opinion is utterly irrelevant.

zephyr88 said:

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That's some Wild West **** right there. Dumb punk harasses a guy, but you can't just shoot someone. I'm a big 2A guy and carry quite often, but never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

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So, if some ass clown twice your size gets into your personal space, harasses you and follows you around as you walk away, staying in your face the whole time, you're supposed to do...what, exactly?

coconutED said:

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zephyr88 said:

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That's some Wild West **** right there. Dumb punk harasses a guy, but you can't just shoot someone. I'm a big 2A guy and carry quite often, but never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

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So, if some ass clown twice your size gets into your personal space, harasses you and follows you around as you walk away, staying in your face the whole time, you're supposed to do...what, exactly?

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My opinion was that he went to the trigger way too fast.

The last option should be pulling the trigger.

Present your firearm. Announce with authority that you'll use it. Diffuse the situation.

If that doesn't work and you feel you life remains in jeopardy, then take it up a notch.

How many more times should he have said stop than he did?

Urban Ag said:

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As I have stated several times recently, I remain at the point where all I care about is who, of their own free will, created the dysfunction. That would be the harasser, not the delivery guy just doing his job.

I would have acquitted him too.

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I see the so-called "victim" as being kind of like I see protesters. Instead of minding his own business as any honest citizen would, he is an entitled snowflake harassing everyone else for profit and amusement.

Shooting may have been a bit much, though. A series of swift karate kicks to sensitive areas might have been better. I used to know someone who was accosted in a parking lot by a robber armed with a knife. The guy was very well trained in self defense and left the thief on the ground with a broken arm.

SuhrThang said:

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He should have shot that nut job in the foot!

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How big would his feet have to be to be considered "center of mass"?

Madman said:

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I was in a sales meeting with co workers recently in Chicago. A very liberal co worker that I actually like talking to always brings up firearms when I am around. Half because I am from Texas and half because he knows I like to shoot competitively.

He asked how many times I have shown my pistol to scare somebody away. I told him never and not only that but you don't pull a firearm of any sorts out unless its time to pull the trigger. He was dumbfounded. He couldn't understand the concept. He gave me a few scenarios and in everyone I told him the legal and also best thing to do was just leave.

He then commented about Florida and stand your ground. He seemed to think people in Florida and to a lesser extent Texas are routinely showing people pistols to end hostile situations.

It was all friendly but also odd and revealing of how the liberal mind works.

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He probably didn't consider the potential for you getting shot if the assailant retreated and pulled out his own handgun.

So basically, if you defend yourself and discharge a legally caring weapon, you can still be prosecuted for that discharge.

That is BS.

Not a Bot said:

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AG81 said:

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Got no problem with this shooting. Have a big problem with a law against firing a gun in a building. If I use my gun to stop a mass shooter in a building, I'm going to jail. Just moronic.

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The statute defines it as an "unlawful" firing inside of a building. True self defense and defense of others would be considered lawful.

Quote:

---

18.2-279. Discharging firearms or missiles within or at building or dwelling house; penalty.

If any person maliciously discharges a firearm within any building when occupied by one or more persons in such a manner as to endanger the life or lives of such person or persons, or maliciously shoots at, or maliciously throws any missile at or against any dwelling house or other building when occupied by one or more persons, whereby the life or lives of any such person or persons may be put in peril, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 4 felony. In the event of the death of any person, resulting from such malicious shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of murder in the second degree. However, if the homicide is willful, deliberate and premeditated, he is guilty of murder in the first degree.

If any such act be done unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony; and, in the event of the death of any person resulting from such unlawful shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. If any person willfully discharges a firearm within or shoots at any school building whether occupied or not, he is guilty of a Class 4 felony.

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Fair enough. Now explain how they could find him guilty of that but not guilty of all other charges. Don't the not guilty findings negate the necessary elements of the crime he was found guilty? Cognitive dissonance at best

zephyr88 said:

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coconutED said:

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zephyr88 said:

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That's some Wild West **** right there. Dumb punk harasses a guy, but you can't just shoot someone. I'm a big 2A guy and carry quite often, but never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

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So, if some ass clown twice your size gets into your personal space, harasses you and follows you around as you walk away, staying in your face the whole time, you're supposed to do...what, exactly?

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My opinion was that he went to the trigger way too fast.

The last option should be pulling the trigger.

Present your firearm. Announce with authority that you'll use it. Diffuse the situation.

If that doesn't work and you feel you life remains in jeopardy, then take it up a notch.

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Your opinion doesn't matter. The jury found him not guilty. Pulling your gun is never the way to diffuse the situation. Your gun is your last resort. I beg you to take a firearm course. You'd actually be able comment intelligently on this issue

coconutED said:

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zephyr88 said:

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That's some Wild West **** right there. Dumb punk harasses a guy, but you can't just shoot someone. I'm a big 2A guy and carry quite often, but never have I been tempted to shoot someone because they were a mouthy *******. So many better ways to resolve this without actually pulling a trigger.

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So, if some ass clown twice your size gets into your personal space, harasses you and follows you around as you walk away, staying in your face the whole time, you're supposed to do...what, exactly?

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Yep.

They do that because they aren't scared.

People should react in a way that makes them scared to bother people.

From what I understand what's shown in the video is only the second half of the interaction. That ****** canoe was harassing him way before that as well.

They found that he fired the gun unlawfully but not maliciously. It's not cognitive dissonance.

In many jurisdictions there's a concept called imperfect self-defense. You react to a situation because you are legitimately scared but the reaction is not in line with what the law allows. Not sure about the exact Virginia self-defense statute but imperfect self-defense seems to be in line with what the jury was thinking.

Considering the other charges he was facing this seems like a good outcome for him.

eric76 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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As I have stated several times recently, I remain at the point where all I care about is who, of their own free will, created the dysfunction. That would be the harasser, not the delivery guy just doing his job.

I would have acquitted him too.

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I see the so-called "victim" as being kind of like I see protesters. Instead of minding his own business as any honest citizen would, he is an entitled snowflake harassing everyone else for profit and amusement.

Shooting may have been a bit much, though. A series of swift karate kicks to sensitive areas might have been better. I used to know someone who was accosted in a parking lot by a robber armed with a knife. The guy was very well trained in self defense and left the thief on the ground with a broken arm.

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you should stop posting

Zergling Rush said:

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gbaby23 said:

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I would be curious to know the culture of this specific mall. There are definitely some that I have been to that will put you on edge.

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Aren't all malls sketchy at this point? I don't even recognize North Park in Dallas anymore.....

That being said, everyone should be practicing heighten situational awareness EVERYWHERE these days. He might have been able to avoid the whole situation if he spotted this idiot coming before it escalated.

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North Park is easily one of the most high end malls in the US and I'm even on edge in that one. We rarely go anymore and when we do it's in and out for a specific reason with head on a swivel.

Urban Ag said:

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As I have stated several times recently, I remain at the point where all I care about is who, of their own free will, created the dysfunction. That would be the harasser, not the delivery guy just doing his job.

I would have acquitted him too.

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This x1000 for me

It's ok. A white person was shot/killed. Nothing to see here.

No one is mentioning that he was approached by two people. He probably thought he was about to be jumped.

Who was that second guy?

APHIS AG said:

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So basically, if you defend yourself and discharge a legally caring weapon, you can still be prosecuted for that discharge.

That is BS.

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Yes, depending on the circumstances. The use of force in self defense has to be in line with the threat.

This guy was being followed, harassed, and insulted by a group of people. He was provoked into a reaction. He could have kept walking, but in that circumstance he chose to fire his gun. This was not a case of pure self defense.

The jury didn't want to convict him of the greater charge and compromised. Not sure if Virginia allows for an affirmative imperfect self defense claim but that's what seemed like happened here.

That idiot you tube antagonist was just following Maxine Waters' advice. Maybe he should hire a lawyer to sue Maxine Waters for following her advice.

Shame the YouTuber lived. He's still doing the exact same thing by the way.

Garrelli 5000 said:

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Like the guy in Japan harassing people on a train and an Aggie verbally put him in his place. That was posted here in the last year or so.

In this case shooter isn't playing with a full deck of cards, but I don't mind professional harassers getting f'd up either.

Edit to add x I couldn't hear what the guy was saying to the shooter so maybe his reaction wasn't "well that escalated quickly" but in silence it was quick.

Still happy to see YouTuber learn a lesson in civility.

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He clearly told him to "stop" multiple times. Prankster was much larger and in his face even after shooter tried to brush him off peacefully. I'm fine with this

torrid said:

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I don't carry or know anything about guns, but to me that looks like a situation where you would brandish it instead of shoot. But for all I know, that could create a worse legal position for the person with the gun.

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lolwut? No kidding

Madman said:

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I was in a sales meeting with co workers recently in Chicago. A very liberal co worker that I actually like talking to always brings up firearms when I am around. Half because I am from Texas and half because he knows I like to shoot competitively.

He asked how many times I have shown my pistol to scare somebody away. I told him never and not only that but you don't pull a firearm of any sorts out unless its time to pull the trigger. He was dumbfounded. He couldn't understand the concept. He gave me a few scenarios and in everyone I told him the legal and also best thing to do was just leave.

He then commented about Florida and stand your ground. He seemed to think people in Florida and to a lesser extent Texas are routinely showing people pistols to end hostile situations.

It was all friendly but also odd and revealing of how the liberal mind works.

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