PA24 said:winner, winner, Chicken dinner!BassCowboy33 said:
I used to work on oil tankers, often transporting multiple different fuels in the same load. Frankly, I'm amazed this doesn't happen more often. It's a very fine line ports walk, with disaster often just one wrong valve away.
We ran coastwise routes, with the big stops always being Corpus, Houston, Beaumont, Brownsville, Baton Rouge, and Tampa.
Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Most likely happen during transporting from the refinery to the terminal by pipeline, rail, and or water.aggiehawg said:Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Old May Banker said:
Depending on how much diesel is in this "contamination," gas engines will still run.
Oh. So the "port" of Tampa has their own pipelines to it?PA24 said:Most likely happen during transporting from the refinery to the terminal by pipeline, rail, and or water.aggiehawg said:Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Lot of moving parts.
Citgo doesn't own any fuel outlets, all distributors. They own a lot of terminals that fed these gasoline/diesel outlets.C@LAg said:
TBF I have always considered citgo gas to be contaminated.
and that is not even a lame attempt at blue stars. i find their gas always subpar and dirty when i am forced to use it.
Yes, to the different tanks but not a major pipeline feeding it.aggiehawg said:Oh. So the "port" of Tampa has their own pipelines to it?PA24 said:Most likely happen during transporting from the refinery to the terminal by pipeline, rail, and or water.aggiehawg said:Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Lot of moving parts.
aggiehawg said:Oh. So the "port" of Tampa has their own pipelines to it?PA24 said:Most likely happen during transporting from the refinery to the terminal by pipeline, rail, and or water.aggiehawg said:Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Lot of moving parts.
Thanks. Even though my Dad was an oil exec, he died in the early 80s, so my personal knowledge of certain infrastructures is pretty dated. But I can tell you that he never had such an issue but he was worldwide pipeline coordinator for a major oil company. So how pipelines got involved in thi Florida situation just wasn't sitting right with me.PA24 said:Yes, to the different tanks but not a major pipeline feeding it.aggiehawg said:Oh. So the "port" of Tampa has their own pipelines to it?PA24 said:Most likely happen during transporting from the refinery to the terminal by pipeline, rail, and or water.aggiehawg said:Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Lot of moving parts.
The only major product pipeline running east is Colonial Pipeline. It runs from Houston ship channel thru the south and up the eastern seaboard. Ed's just about everyone.
Don't think it goes by Tampa.
Tampa gets its fuel off the water if my memory serves me right. Barge deliveries from Lake Charles or trading with other refineries closer like in N.O.
Kenneth_2003 said:At certain pressures different fuels are regularly run in the same pipelines. They can be physically separated by pigs, but I believe at certain pressures they won't mix and can be run side by side.BassCowboy33 said:
I used to work on oil tankers, often transporting multiple different fuels in the same load. Frankly, I'm amazed this doesn't happen more often. It's a very fine line ports walk, with disaster often just one wrong valve away.
We ran coastwise routes, with the big stops always being Corpus, Houston, Beaumont, Brownsville, Baton Rouge, and Tampa.
I agree, it's amazing it doesn't happen all the time. Hell, the delivery trucks just use a rotating placard.
PA24 said:Terminal is suppose to test for off spec product but when demand is high, things are missed.Ol_Ag_02 said:PA24 said:LOL...Logos Stick said:PA24 said:When the product was pumped into the terminal, the product went to the wrong tank. I worked gasoline/diesel pipelines and have seen this type of mistake more than once.Logos Stick said:Rapier108 said:
All it takes is a someone either connecting a pipe wrong, or transferring the wrong fuel from one tank to another.
Not everything is a grand conspiracy.
That can't happen. This is from a distributor. The hardware is different to ensure that can't happen. A gasoline tanker can't hook up to a diesel tank and vice versa.
No you haven't.
go against your distributor expert...lol.
Seriously, I managed a control center for gasoline and diesel pipeline that fed hundreds of tanks.
So assuming you're correct (I have no idea about this stuff) who's ass would be on the line for any damages?
Also
Pipeline Controller turns products into terminals using a densitometer or reading gravities. The equipment seldom fails but human reads Diesel and turns it into a RBOB (regular gasoline) tank. Mistake happen.
Logos Stick said:
Never have I heard of that happening.
Thomas Jefferson recorded the weather every day at Monticello.ABattJudd said:Quote:
i anally keep detailed vehicle fueling, mileage, maintenace records
Seems like an overly complicated method, but to each his own I guess.
Plantation pipeline also runs from Baton Rouge up the East Coast, pretty much parallel to the Colonial. There are no pipelines in Florida for gasoline or diesel. It is all barged in, trucked in, or railed in.PA24 said:Yes, to the different tanks but not a major pipeline feeding it.aggiehawg said:Oh. So the "port" of Tampa has their own pipelines to it?PA24 said:Most likely happen during transporting from the refinery to the terminal by pipeline, rail, and or water.aggiehawg said:Wait, I'm confused now. So the contamination happened in pipelines before being off-loaded at the port? Or during the offloading at the port?PA24 said:Pro Sandy said:
My dad used to manage movement and storage for a refinery for 25+ years. He ran the tank farm, docks, pipelines, and truck rack. Called him and asked how many times he put diesel in the gasoline. He said only once. The operator reported it as soon as he realized what he did.
He said things like this happen, the wrong product is placed into the wrong tank, but he never had it leave the plant..
refinery has tighter controls than the transportation portion. Once it gets on the pipeline, from leaking valves to careless cutting batches, it happens.
Lot of moving parts.
The only major product pipeline running east is Colonial Pipeline. It runs from Houston ship channel thru the south and up the eastern seaboard. Ed's just about everyone.
Don't think it goes by Tampa.
Tampa gets its fuel off the water if my memory serves me right. Barge deliveries from Lake Charles or trading with other refineries closer like in N.O.
Heavy crude oil from Venezuela, I helped rebuild their LCR refinery to handle the high sulfur oil.Burdizzo said:
I avoid Citgo gas mainly because of their large Venezuela connection.
Yukon Cornelius said:
Sabotage
Imagine what would have happened if Katrina and Rita had hit a year earlier, in 2004 right before the election?Cromagnum said:Yukon Cornelius said:
Sabotage
It's only a conspiracy theory until the facts come out, then it's "old news" that nobody wants to talk about.
Thanks for the update. But that brings me back to original concern, how does it "get cleaned up quickly"?TexasAggiesWin said:
Heard the Mayor of Tampa interviewed earlier about this and she basically said, "This was a non-story and was cleaned up within hours of us being notified about it". We shall see how if that remains the case...
Maroon Dawn said:
You can poo-poo conspiracy theories
All you need to do is believe Democrats have the most incredible luck with getting the exact event they need to sabotage their political opponents at the exact moment they need it
PA24 said:Citgo doesn't own any fuel outlets, all distributors. They own a lot of terminals that fed these gasoline/diesel outlets.C@LAg said:
TBF I have always considered citgo gas to be contaminated.
and that is not even a lame attempt at blue stars. i find their gas always subpar and dirty when i am forced to use it.
A terminal receives gasoline in raw form, called RBOB or KBOB. One is regular and the other is premium gasoline.
The gasoline is fungible, meaning interchangeable with other gasolines on say the Colonial pipeline.
Once it gets to the Citgo terminal, it is blended with the brand's special detergents.
Now here is the kicker, Exxon or shell or whoever can call the Citgo terminal and ask them to blend up a batch of their stuff cause they are out. Citgo has all their recipes and can blend one up for them. Always trading with each other so the difference in your study must be the detergent recipe Citgo uses.
Burdizzo said:
I avoid Citgo gas mainly because of their large Venezuela connection.
C@LAg said:
TBF I have always considered citgo gas to be contaminated.
and that is not even a lame attempt at blue stars. i find their gas always subpar and dirty when i am forced to use it.
