C@LAg said:

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they need to sod asbestos all across the property .

stat

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LOL
I laughed

Old May Banker said:

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LostInLA07 said:

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They aren't going to pay through the nose. They are going to use eminent domain proceedings to take his property at a value that is less than what he would agree to sell it for. I wouldn't want to live there either but he apparently does. I don't think its all that uncommon for people in that age range to prefer to stay / die in the house they've lived in most of their life.

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Again, I'm no fan on eminent domain... but even when used, i don't believe they don't get to own it below market value.

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You don't understand.

They ARE using market price....if the market price is the same as what the mob would give you when they make an offer you can't refuse...

Actually, it's one area I do understand a little. Just because eminent domain is used doesn't mean they won't pay well... it's generally cheaper to pay more than fight in court.

That said, I wouldn't peg intelligence as that board's best asset.

LostInLA07 said:

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Correct, they have to pay based on some determination of market value during the eminent domain proceedings, and I believe the amount usually ends a bit higher than "market value" because there are other costs the taking entity has to pay. I'm sure the ISD has already offered "market value." The main issue here is the landowner doesn't want to sell for whatever someone else determined market value to be, so the government entity is going to force the sale for a non essential purpose.

I know there are instances where eminent domain is used because it is mutually agreed between the parties that the current owner will come out ahead, or the taking entity needs to acquire multiple tracts from multiple landowners so negotiating individually isn't feasible. This just isn't one of those cases. A handful of people shouldn't be able to force you to sell your property just because it is adjacent to an existing ISD facility.

I frankly can't think of any use case where an ISD would need eminent domain. The only essential activity they perform is education of students and, unlike roads or distribution lines, schools don't require an exact routing or location to perform that function.

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Agree completely with all of this.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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Two more things...
- The guy is 78, how much longer would AISD really have to wait to fulfill the life estate agreement?
- HCAD has this property appraised at less than $200,000. If they guy doesn't have much in savings, where will he really be able to afford to move to?

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Is that part of Houston so ****ty that ONE ACRE right adjacent to a school inside the city limits is worth only $200K?

I was off by one year when I was looking. The Market value is now $237k and the Appraised value is $157k. This all assumes that I'm looking up the right address:

Think of the children.

Cue similar outrage for them as Moses Rose Hangout.

And most of his property taxes have been frozen for 14 years, so even moving to an equivalent property is going to cost him more annually. Tough pill to swallow on what is probably a limited fixed income.

Ag with kids said:

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I grew up on Team Bugs Bunny.

I am STILL on Team Bugs Bunny...

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LostInLA07 said:

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And most of his property taxes have been frozen for 14 years, so even moving to an equivalent property is going to cost him more annually. Tough pill to swallow on what is probably a limited fixed income.

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Yeah...that part sucks.

I remember being up in DFW when they were buying up all that land to build Jerryworld. They basically used ED to get a large chunk of older neighborhoods in Arlington.

They talked about how they were giving "fair value" for the homes. Sure, it was 10% above what was probably market value for THAT house (or something like that)...but then those people still needed a house to live in. And the amount of money they gave them wasn't going to get them much of anything in the rest of DFW.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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I was off by one year when I was looking. The Market value is now $237k and the Appraised value is $157k. This all assumes that I'm looking up the right address:

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To him it doesn't really matter the valuation unless they suddenly decide to pay 10x what it is worth. Which would not be fair to taxpayers. The issue is he's an old man who wants to live out his life in probably the only hone he has ever known.

LostInLA07 said:

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And most of his property taxes have been frozen for 14 years, so even moving to an equivalent property is going to cost him more annually. Tough pill to swallow on what is probably a limited fixed income.

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The ISD should offer him a tax abatement on a different property.

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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eric76 said:

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I detest eminent domain with a passion. There is rarely, if ever, any need to use it. It is nothing more than a practice used by people who do not believe in Capitalism and Free Markets.

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Just another piece of evidence that personal property ownership is actually a myth and we are all just leasing it from the state.

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There is no myth about personal property ownership……..if you don't pay your property taxes, you will quickly learn who actually owns your property!

Ag with kids said:

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Is that part of Houston so ****ty that ONE ACRE right adjacent to a school inside the city limits is worth only $200K?

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Yes

CheeseSndwch said:

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'We are at peace': Aldine ISD votes to stop pursuing 79-year-old's home next to stadium

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Nice!

LostInLA07 said:

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Yep, and the government entity should have to prove public necessity and no reasonable alternative exist. This one should fail on the first point because a high school stadium parking lot isn't a public necessity.

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They're just pissed he's getting to watch games free.

Ag with kids said:

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LostInLA07 said:

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And most of his property taxes have been frozen for 14 years, so even moving to an equivalent property is going to cost him more annually. Tough pill to swallow on what is probably a limited fixed income.

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Yeah...that part sucks.

I remember being up in DFW when they were buying up all that land to build Jerryworld. They basically used ED to get a large chunk of older neighborhoods in Arlington.

They talked about how they were giving "fair value" for the homes. Sure, it was 10% above what was probably market value for THAT house (or something like that)...but then those people still needed a house to live in. And the amount of money they gave them wasn't going to get them much of anything in the rest of DFW.

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I stopped watching and supporting the Cowboys after that.

Proficiency scores are abysmal - especially when you consider the low bar "proficiency" is set at:

Aldine High
13% proficient at math
22% proficient at reading

Davis Aldine
10% proficient at math
29% proficient at reading

Eisenhower Aldine
15% proficient at math
30% proficient at reading

MacArthur Aldine
12% proficient at math
30% proficient at reading

Nimitz Aldine
14% proficient at math
30% proficient at reading

StandUpforAmerica said:

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Two more things...
- The guy is 78, how much longer would AISD really have to wait to fulfill the life estate agreement?
- HCAD has this property appraised at less than $200,000. If they guy doesn't have much in savings, where will he really be able to afford to move to?

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He would get the value of the property, and as part of the relocation study, would also get whatever else it took to get him into a similar place elsewhere. I am not familiar with this case, so if they are not providing relocation costs, he is getting screwed.

I also agree that they should not be using ED for a HS football field parking lot to begin with...

Private schools would have to purchase that property IF it were for sale. AGAIN, school vouchers stand on the side of individual freedom. Removing the govt. and handing back/maintaining this individual freedom is the most fundamental goal.

ISDs need to be hobbled. In no way or shape should a govt. be able to come in and TAKE property away from an individual. Especially to build an unconstitutional school football stadium parking lot (Where in the constitution does it say education is a right?)

OH but the rural areas???? Still no reason to suspend a Yes vote for school choice.

IndividualFreedom said:

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Private schools would have to purchase that property IF it were for sale. AGAIN, school vouchers stand on the side of individual freedom. Removing the govt. and handing back/maintaining this individual freedom is the most fundamental goal.

ISDs need to be hobbled. In no way or shape should a govt. be able to come in and TAKE property away from an individual. Especially to build an unconstitutional school football stadium parking lot (Where in the constitution does it say education is a right?)

OH but the rural areas???? Still no reason to suspend a Yes vote for school choice.

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Actually, the state constitution does say that.

Looks like two houses they seize but only choosing the one? What about the one on the corner?



And why not these businesses?

FarmerJohn said:

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Eminent domain should have the option for a jury trial.

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If it gets to a jury trial, that is always an option, and it is extremely rare that an ED case is a bench trial. But most cases settle before it gets to trial because it's expensive, and juries are quirky. I haven't seen the numbers lately, but it has to be a fraction of a percent of cases that make it to a jury trial.

Quote:

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Actually, the state constitution does say that.

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Unlike a democrat, I can admit when a point of mine is defeated. Texas has some bs language about education (and I knew that) as my brain was on federal auto pilot. Still do not like it. Education does not mean ISD, lunch, transportation, athletics, etc. It does not define that in the TEXAS constitution. It is time to eliminate/cap the standards OR (and I like this idea the best) SELL the ISD's to the private sector. What would Katy ISD be worth and could/would it sell?

Not sure if a single post on this thread is accurate so I will explain a little about ED and relocation. I have handled about 2000 of these in the last 10 years so I know a little.

First, education is a public interest. I honestly don't know what could be more in the "public interest" than schools. I just don't know what to say here. If it were the Texas Rangers taking a house for their stadium next to their stadium then that is a little more iffy. But this is a bad school trying to improve its facilities. I have heard a lot of people question project necessity and the right to take, but in all my career I have never heard someone question if a public school is a public interest.

Second, the ISD doesn't get to pay under market value. There is no "mob bullying". The US Constitution, the Texas Constitution, and Texas Senate Bill 18 all specify that the ISD must make a good faith offer based on an bona fide appraisal. There is a whole lot more to it than that, but I promise the ISD hired an independent appraiser who appraised the property. I also promise this was done fairly as nobody has any interest in trying to undercut the landowner. You think a school superintendent is going to commit federal fraud and risk actual pen time to save an ISD a few bucks? They just want to build a parking lot, they don't care about that BS. All other appraisals for the last ten years have to be given to the landowner as well.

The landowner got this info and offer and he held out for more. He clearly did this before as well and they built the parking lot around him. That is ok, school district didn't want to pay his price so they built around. So landowner hired an attorney to get his "windfall."

It will now go to a special commissioner hearing where both sides present their case and the commissioners give a value. Kinda like a forced mediation. After that objections will be filed and it will go to trial. He can have a jury if he wants. The trial is very math oriented so most choose to go to a judge, but one Houston landowner just got 90 million from a Jury so it happens. Most of the time the case will settle before trial anyway.



The landowner also gets relocation benefits. Benefits consist of the following...

the difference between the value of his home and equal or greater housing. The replacement housing must be decent safe and sanitary, must have equal number of bedrooms and bathrooms, all stuff must work, must be in the same school district, etc etc. There is a book of regulations on relocation and most revolve around making sure the displacee is put in a good house. He dos not have to move to any of the chosen houses.

He gets moving expenses by professional movers (or he can self move)

He gets reinstatement expenses to hook up all utilities, etc.

He gets a calculated benefit for increase in interest rates for the life of the new loan, if any.



I did two relocations in the last month.

First guy was in a 3/2 with his wife and 4 kids. It was OK but located right on a 70mph state highway on which a dozen or so have been killed within a couple miles of his home in the last 10 years. REALLY dangerous road. His new home will be a 4/4, same school District, 20 years newer, WAY nicer and thanks to his $273k relo benefit, his payment stays the same. To say he is happy is a little understatement. His original house was valued around $200k so he is getting twice the home for the same price.

Second guy was in a 3/2 with just his wife. His relo isn't done but his benefits are calculated (this will change slightly) at around $245k. Lower than guy 1 because relo regulations say the first family gets more bedrooms as kids of opposite sex cannot be forced to share a bedroom and more than 2 kids cannot share a BR. Three girls means 2 br, 1 boy means BR, and parents get a BR. Therefore family 1 gets a 4br and family 2 gets a 3br. Guy number 2 is also pretty happy about it as he no longer has to pull out of his driveway onto a road on which everyone is driving 85 mph.


So is ED evil? Not really on residential relocation. The people are better off and happy 99.99% of the time. Is it bad for small businesses? Yeah maybe. Businesses rely on their location and moving them very often affects them badly. What about taking an individual's stuff for common good? Well an individual shouldn't be able to hold the public hostage for his own profit. That is your "evil." But as long as it isn't abused, ED is necessary.