Wow. Averaging 55 posts per day, almost all on F16.

The only ones trying to be cool around here are the EV haters scrounging up every clickbait title article they can find. Crazy for the board to suddenly trust the accuracy of news sources when it is something they agree with

OK, I'll beat the dead horse a bit.

You used the term "supercharger" to be provocative and with intent, you say it's out of ignorance, so I'll believe you and not think it was intentful.

If those of use that believe that EVs should be market driven and the various issues with them need to be exposed to the light of day, then either using words out of ignorance, or worse yet using them knowing they are incorrect, only hurts our arguments.

You could have easily backed off, and fell back to they "the voltage to the charge isn't the issue, parking an EV in my garage is" argument, which many other people make.

I linked no clickbait site but your obsession and derail is duly noted.

cecil77 said:

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OK, I'll beat the dead horse a bit.

You used the term "supercharger" to be provocative and with intent, you say it's out of ignorance, so I'll believe you and not think it was intentful.

If those of use that believe that EVs should be market driven and the various issues with them need to be exposed to the light of day, then either using words out of ignorance, or worse yet using them knowing they are incorrect, only hurts our arguments.

You could have easily backed off, and fell back to they "the voltage to the charge isn't the issue, parking an EV in my garage is" argument, which many other people make.

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No thanks. Teslag knows what he is doing and his condescension should be called out.

I did not use the term to indicate anything other than normal extension cord charger. I quite well understand the standard electric service provided to most all homes and that a Level 3 charger is not for home use.

I had not realized the term supercharger had been absconded from the normal english language use to only refer to Level 3 Tesla chargers.

My intuition tells me the higher the voltage and the faster the charger the higher risk of fire and intensity of fire. My iPhone heats up when put on a "supercharger" vs regular charger. Is the contention this does not happen with EVs?

Battery tech is largely the same, so yes, the faster you charge the more heat generated.

SockStilkings said:

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I linked no clickbait site but your obsession and derail is duly noted.

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Where did I say you linked an article? I said EV haters in the general term, not specific to you

ntxVol said:

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Battery tech is largely the same, so yes, the faster you charge the more heat generated.

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Fire hazards.

My bad, maybe misread what you posted.

techno-ag said:

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ntxVol said:

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Battery tech is largely the same, so yes, the faster you charge the more heat generated.

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Fire hazards.

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Guess it's time for you to throw everything out of your home

https://www.seattletimes.com/explore/at-home/avoiding-a-lithium-battery-fire-requires-attentive-behavior/

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Six months ago, a home near mine burned almost to the ground because power tool lithium-ion batteries ignited a fire. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured in the fire, but lithium batteries are causing death and permanent injuries to many across the country and the world.

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Teslag said:

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techno-ag said:

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ntxVol said:

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Battery tech is largely the same, so yes, the faster you charge the more heat generated.

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Fire hazards.

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Guess it's time for you to throw everything out of your home

https://www.seattletimes.com/explore/at-home/avoiding-a-lithium-battery-fire-requires-attentive-behavior/

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Six months ago, a home near mine burned almost to the ground because power tool lithium-ion batteries ignited a fire. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured in the fire, but lithium batteries are causing death and permanent injuries to many across the country and the world.

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That article contains practically no information.

There is a problem with cheap crap coming out of China. E-Scooters have had some problems. Knock off replacement batteries for power tools and such are also a problem.

Samsung had a problem with their phone batteries a few years ago but, overall, tech like phones and laptops are pretty safe now. That's because those industries have worked through the problems.

I'm seeing a lot more things moving to lithium batteries and that's a cause for concern. Golf carts are one example.

A little common sense is warranted here. Be aware of damaged batteries or charging in the sun.

These larger batteries are especially worrisome. The auto manufacturers better get this figured out though because the size of those batteries make them an extreme hazard.

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The auto manufacturers better get this figured out

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What do they need to figure out?

Teslag said:

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The auto manufacturers better get this figured out

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What do they need to figure out?

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If their batteries and charging system are designed correctly, this should never be a problem. The need for charging quickly is probably a driving factor. Whatever it is, they must figure it out or the liabilities are going to put them out of business.

Teslag said:

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techno-ag said:

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ntxVol said:

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Battery tech is largely the same, so yes, the faster you charge the more heat generated.

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Fire hazards.

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Guess it's time for you to throw everything out of your home

https://www.seattletimes.com/explore/at-home/avoiding-a-lithium-battery-fire-requires-attentive-behavior/

Quote:

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Six months ago, a home near mine burned almost to the ground because power tool lithium-ion batteries ignited a fire. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured in the fire, but lithium batteries are causing death and permanent injuries to many across the country and the world.

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My power tools and associated batteries are kept in a outer garage with multiple fire / smoke detectors and fire suppression at the ready.

Plus that story is from Seattle and its likely the soy beta boy neckbeard guy was practicing bad battery charging methods and storage.

ntxVol said:

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Teslag said:

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The auto manufacturers better get this figured out

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What do they need to figure out?

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If their batteries and charging system are designed correctly, this should never be a problem. The need for charging quickly is probably a driving factor. Whatever it is, they must figure it out or the liabilities are going to put them out of business.

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What liabilities? What is the rate of catastrophic EV fires that you've based your risk on? Be specific.

There's 2 variables weighed in risk calculations.

Hell I'm just hoping for one at this point

AgBandsman said:

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Teslag said:

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https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/sugar-land-car-house-fire/285-d55134fd-9cab-4ac9-b7c2-9c0d8cf89c9a

ICE vehicles are so dangerous that they can burn your house down even if parked OUTSIDE the garage.

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Sugar Land police said the fire started when a 2023 Range Rover SUV parked outside the home caught fire and spread to the garage. This happened as the family had just fallen asleep upstairs.

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ICE vehicles catch fire from improper engineering and can be fixed with recalls.

EV's catch fire because of the nature of EV's. There's no recall that can prevent one from exploding.

edit: from the article, "KHOU 11 learned there was a recall issued back in April on the same model for a missing gasket on an oil drain pipe that could lead to a fire."

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Nonsense. I've seen two ICE vehicles catch fire because of a battery leak. No recall involved.

Teslag said:

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ntxVol said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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The auto manufacturers better get this figured out

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What do they need to figure out?

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If their batteries and charging system are designed correctly, this should never be a problem. The need for charging quickly is probably a driving factor. Whatever it is, they must figure it out or the liabilities are going to put them out of business.

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What liabilities? What is the rate of catastrophic EV fires that you've based your risk on? Be specific.

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When people die because of your poorly designed equipment, juries tend to not treat you kindly.

Which vehicles are poorly designed? Can you share your analysis and findings that led to your conclusion?

Teslag said:

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Which vehicles are poorly designed? Can you share your analysis and findings that led to your conclusion?

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Any that burst into flames while just sitting there charging. That should never happen.

ntxVol said:

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Teslag said:

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Which vehicles are poorly designed? Can you share your analysis and findings that led to your conclusion?

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Any that burst into flames while just sitting there charging. That should never happen.

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This sometimes happens to ICE vehicles and has been documented on this thread. Even lithium electronics/power tools have burst into flames and killed people. Nothing is perfect and there are acceptable failure tolerances with anything. 1 in 100 is a problem. 1 in a million is not.

The tolerances for EVs should be much more stringent because the battery packs are so much larger and far more dangerous.

Smart EV manufacturers will move away from lithium completely. Hopefully, that happens soon.

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Smart EV manufacturers will move away from lithium completely. Hopefully, that happens soon.

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What current failure rate are you basing this on? Care to share your findings? You said the tolerances should be much more stringent. What are they now? Where does each manufacturer fall in regards to those tolerances from your research?

On-road is okay, off-road has a lot of bad designs right now. We have seen a lot of fires due to bad practices or bad designs.

A lot of the lithium batteries were not initially designed for mobile vehicle use and don't handle the vibration and shock very well. One of the main reasons Teslas went tabless

Look man, nobody wants a ticking time bomb sitting in their garage. No amount of risk is worth it, for me at least, when it comes to my home and family.

These things are dangerous, if you don't want to acknowledge that fact then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Later.

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Look man, nobody wants a ticking time bomb sitting in their garage. No amount of risk is worth it, for me at least, when it comes to my home and family.

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So you don't park ICE vehicles in the garage then either? Because those also catch fire in garages and kill people. And you literally just said "no amount of risk is worth it"?

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These things are dangerous, if you don't want to acknowledge that fact then we will just have to agree to disagree.

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I'm just asking you to share the thorough, reasoned, and calculated analysis that resulted in that conclusion.

An ICE fire is different from a Li battery fire.

The latter is much harder to extinguish. At least admit that.

cecil77 said:

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An ICE fire is different from a Li battery fire.

The latter is much harder to extinguish. At least admit that.

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Of course it is. But he said "no risk". And if he moves to "reduced risk" I'd like to see his comparisons.

Teslag said:

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cecil77 said:

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An ICE fire is different from a Li battery fire.

The latter is much harder to extinguish. At least admit that.

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Of course it is. But he said "no risk". And if he moves to "reduced risk" I'd like to see his comparisons.

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So whatever the risk level of occurrence is, a burning battery in an EV has significantly higher consequence, therefore the acceptable level of risk would logically be lower.

I would think it would be lower but not necessarily significantly. Either way, I'd have to see the numbers that people are basing their risk on. So far, no one can even tell me what percentage of EV's spontaneously catch fire. That would be a good starting point.

I have only seen that happen as a result of some other, usually electrical, problem in an older or damaged vehicle. Even those instances are extremely rare.

So you think an ICE vehicle parked in a garage is at a comparable risk of fire as an EV plugged into a wall?

Your wrong.

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Your wrong.

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Then show me your data. Because NTSB says the ICE is more prone to fire per 100,000 vehicles.

I'm beginning to think you are either a paid advocate or you just like stirring up **** on this subject.

Just compare the potential hazards between a full tank of gasoline and an EV battery pack. The worst case scenarios aren't even close.

Even if the risk of fire were equal between ICE and EV, the ICE fire is manageable but the EV fire is not. You can't put that EV fire out without a major containment effort that just isn't going to available in the real world.

Teslag said:

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Your wrong.

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Then show me your data. Because NTSB says the ICE is more prone to fire per 100,000 vehicles.

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Not sitting in a garage turned off they don't. So, yes, you are wrong.