Horrific......

If true, every single death there lays at the feet of Dem Gov. John Green, who's administration was more worried about appeasing political sensibilities of native Hawaiians than protecting human lives and property in real time. Hawaii's Department of Land and Natural Resources refused to release water until the fires were too close to Lahaina to help protect the city.

Note that the initial reporting on this was from a known liberal outlet, and then picked up by American Thinker:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/08/report_state_official_refused_to_release_water_to_fight_lahaina_fire_until_too_late.html

I'd say they got what they voted for, but in this case that seems excessively cruel, so I won't say that.

Sad.

BadMoonRisin said:

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I'd say they got what they voted for, but in this case that seems excessively cruel, so I won't say that.

Sad.

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The ones who voted Democrat did. The 28% or so in Maui who voted GOP - they deserve better than this.

It's a lot harder to escape Hawaii than it is California. So I have a lot more sympathy for conservatives who are there.

Why don't they just use seawater to fight fires?

It's an island. Fire can be put out by sea water.

I don't trust anything from the American Thinker./CM/Liberal

10thYrSr said:

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It's an island. Fire can be put out by sea water.

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Winds were gusting over 60 mph. How easy do you think it would be to fly an aircraft and scoop up sea water to douse the flames? Just asking.

If true…I'm going to guess that this was made before the fires but if this is fact, then he needs to be criminally charged.

What a whack job. Let me guess, he's a Democrat.

Hawaiian official M. Kaleo Manuel refused to release water in Maui as the fire raged

Manuel is deputy director of the Department of Land and Natural Resources

Here he is explaining that water should be revered, not used:pic.twitter.com/iZ6PvghwqN

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) August 16, 2023

WTF?

🚨 THIS IS PURE EVIL!!! I Have Obtained New Footage From Maui Fire Ground Zero That Shows Hawaii Police Officer SHUTTING DOWN A CITIZEN DONATION CENTER FOR VICTIMS OF THE FIRES 🚨

⚠️ The Officer Says (Not Knowing He is Being Recorded) THAT THE “POWERS THAT BE” ARE RESPONSIBLE ⚠️… pic.twitter.com/h90WAQle8d

— Matt Wallace (@MattWallace888) August 17, 2023

Leftists love misery for the populace.

The governor was talking about the state taking over the land that was destroyed. They may not let people rebuild.

This is not an answer, it is a deflection.

Reporter asks Biden's FEMA administrator:

"We keep interviewing survivor after survivor who says that either they didn't see any government personnel or assistance for days, or that they still haven't. How do you explain the disconnect between what they're saying and what you're… pic.twitter.com/BdHfKqAaqU

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) August 16, 2023

Bird Poo said:

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Why don't they just use seawater to fight fires?

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Because they need huge pumps, huge pipelines and tons of maintenance to keep saltwater pipelines from corroding?

Or are you not thinking clearly here?

People who are leftists often have temperament and personality types that make them very bad at assessing and weighing risks, and very bad at administration in general.

They get into their roles by expressing care and the right dogmatic intentions but they suck at actually doing good with the available resources.

C@LAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Why don't they just use seawater to fight fires?

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Because they need huge pumps, huge pipelines and tons of maintenance to keep saltwater pipelines from corroding?

Or are you not thinking clearly here?

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seattle has three fireboats that it maintains to provide salt and (if needed) fresh water fire support - direct cannon and indirect hose support,.

as well as to greet cruise ships and whatnot.

no reason the island should not have had some as well.

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Oh fully agree about the fireboats. I was shocked they did not apparently have any? To shoot water from the harbor? Winds were coming onshore water would have hit the target

encinoag said:

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10thYrSr said:

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It's an island. Fire can be put out by sea water.

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Winds were gusting over 60 mph. How easy do you think it would be to fly an aircraft and scoop up sea water to douse the flames? Just asking.

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How easy would it be to let the island be deprived of precious drinking water to fight these fires? It's not like fresh water is easy to find on the island. There aren't huge stores of fresh water just laying around on the island.

MouthBQ98 said:

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People who are leftists often have temperament and personality types that make them very bad at assessing and weighing risks, and very bad at administration in general.

They get into their roles by expressing care and the right dogmatic intentions but they suck at actually doing good with the available resources.

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What were the available fresh water resources at the time?

MouthBQ98 said:

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People who are leftists often have temperament and personality types that make them very bad at assessing and weighing risks, and very bad at administration in general.

They get into their roles by expressing care and the right dogmatic intentions but they suck at actually doing good with the available resources.

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It's shocking that a person with this background wouldn't be better qualified to make that judgment "M. Kaleo Manuel, a Native Hawaiian cultural practitioner"

C@LAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Why don't they just use seawater to fight fires?

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Because they need huge pumps, huge pipelines and tons of maintenance to keep sal****er pipelines from corroding?

Or are you not thinking clearly here?

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seattle has three fireboats that it maintains to provide salt and (if needed) fresh water fire support - direct cannon and indirect hose support,.

as well as to greet cruise ships and whatnot.

no reason the island should not have had some as well.

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^Stop thinking clearly.

Emergency systems do not necessarily need to be constantly exposed to seawater. Especially the mobile ones.

annie88 said:

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If true…I'm going to guess that this was made before the fires but if this is fact, then he needs to be criminally charged.

What a whack job. Let me guess, he's a Democrat.

Hawaiian official M. Kaleo Manuel refused to release water in Maui as the fire raged

Manuel is deputy director of the Department of Land and Natural Resources

Here he is explaining that water should be revered, not used:pic.twitter.com/iZ6PvghwqN

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) August 16, 2023

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It's a little known fact, but native Hawaiians had an extensive system of dams, reservoirs, viaducts, and irrigation before the arrival of the white man.

Well, zooming in I see a couple of streams and some small tanks/reservoirs in the fire area. Perhaps that is a start.

Looking at the geography, however, they were screwed. It's the arid side of the island and there are (were) a lot of abandoned fields with overgrown ground vegetation all over east of the towns along the coast. A strong east wind would have been doom, possibly regardless of any fire fighting, once it got going.

They should have dozed fire breaks in that drier vegetation periodically.

annie88 said:

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If true…I'm going to guess that this was made before the fires but if this is fact, then he needs to be criminally charged.

What a whack job. Let me guess, he's a Democrat.

Hawaiian official M. Kaleo Manuel refused to release water in Maui as the fire raged

Manuel is deputy director of the Department of Land and Natural Resources

Here he is explaining that water should be revered, not used:pic.twitter.com/iZ6PvghwqN

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) August 16, 2023

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This man should be charged with negligent homicide.

But watch.... he will be treated (D)ifferently.

Bird Poo said:

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C@LAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Why don't they just use seawater to fight fires?

---

Because they need huge pumps, huge pipelines and tons of maintenance to keep saltwater pipelines from corroding?

Or are you not thinking clearly here?

---

seattle has three fireboats that it maintains to provide salt and (if needed) fresh water fire support - direct cannon and indirect hose support,.

as well as to greet cruise ships and whatnot.

no reason the island should not have had some as well.

---

^Stop thinking clearly.

Emergency systems do not necessarily need to be constantly exposed to seawater. Especially the mobile ones.

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Not at all thinking clearly. Best they could do with ships is sit in the harbor and shoot water that would just be wind whipped back at themselves

Quote:

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There aren't huge stores of fresh water just laying around on the island.

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No idea how many waterfalls there are on Maui? Hint: A lot. Google it.

<sigh>

annie88 said:

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WTF?

🚨 THIS IS PURE EVIL!!! I Have Obtained New Footage From Maui Fire Ground Zero That Shows Hawaii Police Officer SHUTTING DOWN A CITIZEN DONATION CENTER FOR VICTIMS OF THE FIRES 🚨

⚠️ The Officer Says (Not Knowing He is Being Recorded) THAT THE “POWERS THAT BE” ARE RESPONSIBLE ⚠️… pic.twitter.com/h90WAQle8d

— Matt Wallace (@MattWallace888) August 17, 2023

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Nothing to see here.... we are all conspiracy theorists.....

What the hell ?

And that damn police officer should NOT have carried out that order.

Will somebody please stand up and do what is right for once?

Helicopters can drop sea water with fire buckets.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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There aren't huge stores of fresh water just laying around on the island.

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No idea how many waterfalls there are on Maui? Hint: A lot. Google it.

<sigh>

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on one side

TheEternalPessimist said:

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annie88 said:

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WTF?

🚨 THIS IS PURE EVIL!!! I Have Obtained New Footage From Maui Fire Ground Zero That Shows Hawaii Police Officer SHUTTING DOWN A CITIZEN DONATION CENTER FOR VICTIMS OF THE FIRES 🚨

⚠️ The Officer Says (Not Knowing He is Being Recorded) THAT THE “POWERS THAT BE” ARE RESPONSIBLE ⚠️… pic.twitter.com/h90WAQle8d

— Matt Wallace (@MattWallace888) August 17, 2023

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Nothing to see here.... we are all conspiracy theorists.....

What the hell ?

And that damn police officer should NOT have carried out that order.

Will somebody please stand up and do what is right for once?

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The supermajority of police and legal officers are not risking their livelihood, retirement, or reputation for what is right. Same thing we see with military leadership, too.

encinoag said:

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Bird Poo said:

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C@LAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

---

Bird Poo said:

---

Why don't they just use seawater to fight fires?

---

Because they need huge pumps, huge pipelines and tons of maintenance to keep saltwater pipelines from corroding?

Or are you not thinking clearly here?

---

seattle has three fireboats that it maintains to provide salt and (if needed) fresh water fire support - direct cannon and indirect hose support,.

as well as to greet cruise ships and whatnot.

no reason the island should not have had some as well.

---

^Stop thinking clearly.

Emergency systems do not necessarily need to be constantly exposed to seawater. Especially the mobile ones.

---

Not at all thinking clearly. Best they could do with ships is sit in the harbor and shoot water that would just be wind whipped back at themselves

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We have a saltwater boat. It has a water pump system that allows the deck to be cleaned with sea water. All you have to do is rinse it out when you get back and no corrosion occurs. Same can be scaled up to larger systems surely.

MouthBQ98 said:

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People who are leftists often have temperament and personality types that make them very bad at assessing and weighing risks, and very bad at administration in general.

They get into their roles by expressing care and the right dogmatic intentions but they suck at actually doing good with the available resources.

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You offer some of the best political and psychological insight on this board and I've thought so for a long time. And always level headed (unlike me). Just a sincere post of appreciation.