Dies Irae said:
BG Knocc Out said:
Dies Irae said:
BG Knocc Out said:
Dies Irae said:
BG Knocc Out said:
Dies Irae said:
Rapier108 said:
Dies Irae said:
Seriously how does anyone reconcile "Jesus would be very much in favor of freedom of religion" with "God desires all men to be saved".
Jesus says he's the Way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through him, and desires that all men will be saved; but he's a fierce proponent of people not believing in him and going to hell?
Of course he desires it, but he will not force it on us. It is our choice.
We all know what you think about religion. You want a totalitarian Catholic state where pretty much any sin is a death sentence, and it would be convert or die.
How do you square that with my being against the death penalty?
Also, you've gone from Jesus would be very much in favor of freedom of religion" to "will not force it upon us". That's quite the walkback. Is that the end of your walkback or do you have more room to go?
Give me one piece of evidence that Jesus was against "freedom of religion". Bible only, Catholic writings don't count.
Well if I can't use Catholic writings we need to throw the Bible out as well. What time period do you consider the 'Catholic period'
I respect you as a poster and person of faith, but I can't have a religious discussion with someone who thinks the Apostles were "catholic". We will never see eye to eye on this topic, but no ill will.
Okay, then you have an argument with around 75% of Christianity compromising the oldest Churches of Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.
In the book of ACTS why did the apostles nominate a replacement for Judas?
The OG churches were more akin to protestant Bible studies than modern Catholic church. In style and substance. There is zero doubt in my mind that Jesus would be much more repulsed by the modern Catholic church than he would be with any government in this world.
How were they more akin to Protestant Bible studies than the modern Catholic Church. He is a writing from St.Justin the Martyr describing the mass in 135 AD.
Quote:
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation.
Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.
And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge'noito [so be it].
And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
That is the same format as the Mass I attend several times a week.
The Liturgy of St.John Chrysostom, still used in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox celebrations, was developed in the year 400.
You think Christ would recognize some sleeve tatted barista worker baptizing people in rose petals?
His main guy, the one who baptized him, was a rugged man who probably looked like an unclean hippie and wore clothes of camel hair and survived on locusts and wild honey. Modern closeted prissy robe and crown adorned priests would have scoffed at him for certain.
I do agree that the perversion of Christ's church began pretty early on, about a century or so after his death. original churches were gatherings in homes, town squares etc. They studied and discussed only the word, not man made traditions and practices with no biblical basis...like the concept of a pope etc.