damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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Most of these school districts are incredibly top heavy. Allen ISD has multiple assistant superintendents making near or over $200k.

jt16 said:

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They could start by removing ridiculous standards and hiring the brightest they can find. My sister taught at a wealthy private school because she was unqualified to teach in Texas public schools. She has a phd in biochemistry.

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This is spot on. I'd like to one day leave corporate life and go be a STEM educator way on down the road. The two biggest detractors are: A) the state of texas doesn't care that I have advanced degrees. They want extra protectionist hoops for me to jump through. and B) There isn't a separate pay scale or way to leverage years of experience in engineering to incentivize me to jump into education.

This can all be fixed with an open market approach to teachers salaries. Everyone wants to be a kindergarten teacher in the nice burbs.

ts5641 said:

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damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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Most of these school districts are incredibly top heavy. Allen ISD has multiple assistant superintendents making near or over $200k.

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I believe FISD now has well over 100 employees making over $100k. Of course this includes Football Coaches/ADs for 12 high schools.

My wife was a teacher for 7 years. I've seen the ins and outs of how the machine works. Typical government pork.

My idea has always been to contract everything out except Administration and Teaching. Janitorial services, HVAC, grounds crew/landscape, cafeteria services, IT, etc.

If you get competitive bids from private enterprises, there's cost savings and you can change providers at the end of the contract if they underperform.

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I don't disagree, but athletics helps keep kids who might otherwise drop out.

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Very expensive retention program.
Private sports leagues must be terrible and unable to accomplish the same goal for less money.

School choice please. ISDs need to be neutered.

"they already make good money for only working nine months"

You have no idea the BS teachers have to put up with. They deserve raises.

TxSquarebody said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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But you likely get it directly from your employer.

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Good grief! Go to work, do your job, get your paycheck. Do a great job and get invited back tomorrow. Don't budget based on bonuses and be greatful for any amount!

Beyond that, here is a list of things one is entitled to:

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Are you entitled to sit in another persons seat at a football game? Asking for a friend

Robert L. Peters said:

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My spouse works more in 9 months teaching than most people work in a full year. 7 to 7/8 every day and then a few hours on the weekend.

Teachers are leaving in droves.

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Every single one I know that has left says that their current corporate job is much easier and they get paid more. They laugh when their co-workers come into their office and say they are swamped.

Not Coach Jimbo said:

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B-1 83 said:

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damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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You should have stopped before the ignorant troll line.

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Its not a troll line, some of the districts listed pay really well... Texas is actually pretty decent on teacher pay compared to some states.

Not many jobs get paid ~50k for starting right of college for working 9 months a year + all the benefits teaches have.

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What are "all the benefits teachers have"? Does it include dog **** and expensive insurance?

aggie93 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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This teacher wants merit pay. Just explain how one does it well.

We're about to see a serious teacher shortage. Very few young people are flocking to the profession and lots of young ones are getting out.

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To do it well you have to have a good measuring system and you have to cull the bottom 20 percent regularly. Essentially run it like a business where you create a culture of incentives and achievement.

You are a small minority within teaching in wanting that and it won't work unless teachers want it.

In the meantime the real solution is empowering teachers to have more control of behavior in their classrooms and more recognition for achievement. People who go into teaching don't do it to get rich and the massive mindset change to alter that mindset isn't realistic.

We should be encouraging more people from regular backgrounds to teach. The best math and science teachers my kids have had are former engineers who wanted a less stressful job with more flexibility and were fine with making less money to have it.

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So how do you identify the bottom 20%? What metrics identify a good teacher vs. a bad teacher?

This was what a teacher's employment contract looked like 97 years ago. The entire benefits package was $60 per month to teach in a one room school heated by a fireplace and served by an outhouse.

Duties required of the teacher:

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"to read or cause to be read at the opening of every school day a selection from the Bible; to give instruction in physical education; to give at least two fire drills per month; to teach forestation with respect of settling, cultivating, and protecting plants and forest trees; to teach the Constitution of the United States and the State of Tennessee..."

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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How much was for teachers and how much was for administrators?

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Doesn't matter. Neither should have got a raise.

There's a statewide teacher shortage. They are trying to hold on to the teachers they have. The way school districts are set up in Texas, there can be a bit of competition in the urban areas. Houston has more than 20 in the metro area. If a district doesn't keep up in pay, they lose teachers. I'm guessing Fort Worth is the same way. And the state isn't doing much to help, either.

Not Coach Jimbo said:

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Aggie Jurist said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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Good lord. I have been given leadership awards in my career - and they have been plaques.

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My thoughts exactly... mine wasn't even a plaque though, due to pandemic and work from home I just got a freaking pdf.

Also, obligatory

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Yeah...but was your PDF "screen shared" on a work zoom call so everyone could click the "clapping button" to recognize your achievement?

Frisco, as well as claiming the budget would be at a deficit this year and giving "modest raises" just approved(December) bonuses for all employees paid for with "Savings throughout the year". The kicker to this is that the bonus was based on years in the district ($50/year) + 1.5% of their pay (up from 1% last year) or $500 - which ever is greater. Guess who benefits most from the added .5% increase - if you guessed Administrators, you are correct.
I certainly think a "better look" would have been to cap the Administrators bonus - maybe something like nothing higher than the highest teacher bonus.

$9,000,000 expenditure

BBRex said:

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There's a statewide teacher shortage. They are trying to hold on to the teachers they have. The way school districts are set up in Texas, there can be a bit of competition in the urban areas. Houston has more than 20 in the metro area. If a district doesn't keep up in pay, they lose teachers. I'm guessing Fort Worth is the same way. And the state isn't doing much to help, either.

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They got their COL adjustment to one of the richest retirement packages out there. There's plenty of financial compensation for teachers. Guess they need still need that sweet, sweet victimhood though.

BBRex said:

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There's a statewide teacher shortage. They are trying to hold on to the teachers they have. The way school districts are set up in Texas, there can be a bit of competition in the urban areas. Houston has more than 20 in the metro area. If a district doesn't keep up in pay, they lose teachers. I'm guessing Fort Worth is the same way. And the state isn't doing much to help, either.

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Lower expenses elsewhere then.

That is for retired teachers, not for current teachers.

The state government recognized that teacher pay needed to be raised but they connected it to School Choice vouchers.

TheEternalPessimist said:

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damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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1. BAN PUBLIC FINANCING OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS. EVEN A&M. REDIRECT PUF TO CITIZENS DIRECTLY.
2. AUCTION PUBLIC SCHOOL FACILITIES OFF TO PRIVATE NON-PROFIT AND FOR- PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS, CHURCHES, ETC... OR ALLOW A COMMUNITY TO FORM A VOLUNTARY EDUCATION TRUST THAT MEMBERSHIP IS NOT COMPULSORY IN.
3. LIMIT THE SIZE AND SCOPE OF NON-PROFIT SCHOOLS TO NO MORE THAN 10,000 STUDENTS. LIMIT THE SIZE AND SCOPE OF FOR-PROFIT SCHOOLS TO NO MORE THAN 5,000 STUDENTS.
4. STATE FUNDED EDUCATIONAL GRANTS AVAILABLE BASED ON STUDENT DEMONSTRATED FINANCIAL NEED AND ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE AS MEASURED ON STANDARDIZED AGE APPROPRIATE TESTING.
5. TAX INCENTIVES OR REBATES FOR SCHOOLS THAT PROVIDE FREE OR LOW COST EDUCATION.

WATCH EDUCATION THRIVE WITHOUT ONE SIZE FITS ALL PUBLIC EDUCATION!

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So you would like to take every school district and break them into single feeder programs? What you described would be a signle high school, 2-3 middle schools and maybe 4-8 elementary schools. This would probably still exceed your 10k cap... you realize how dumb that would be right?

It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

IndividualFreedom said:

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It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

Our district passed a deficit budget but also a substantial pay raise. In an urban area with high real estate market, the competition to recruit and retain good teachers is crazy. The district did limit the raise for central admin to a lower % than that of classroom teachers.

The big picture issue is that public ed is paid for by taxes. Everyone wants to pay less in taxes. Expenses (all) go up every year. Labor and everything else. But tax rates go down (even though due to appraisals, taxes go up). But even with higher taxes, school districts are capped at the $ they get per student by the state. So that appraisal increase and increased tax revenue is not realized by the school district.

School district revenue is based on enrollment (actually average daily attendance). As long as dollars are tied to headcount of students, there will be wild fluctuation in forecasted costs. If headcount drops, which it is everywhere except the hyper-growth suburbs like in our case Prosper, Anna, Rockwall etc, so does your revenue. But kids don't leave by the classroom. It's one or two per class etc. So you still have roughly the same cost to run that school and need the same teachers. Expenses go up. Revenue goes down.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

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Did they return due to the quality of the education or the ability to afford the charter school?

The charter should have been "free". I thought charters were publicly funded.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

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As spouse of a public school teacher, I know of several charter schools in the area with a lottery because they have so many parents trying to get into them.

So my anecdote cancels yours. Charters that are bad go away, public schools are bad for eternity, its not good.

oldag941 said:

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The charter should have been "free". I thought charters were publicly funded.

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They are, but they get a lot less money per student. They are usually more efficient and do better across the board, with a few exceptions.

Demosthenes81 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

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Did they return due to the quality of the education or the ability to afford the charter school?

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Quality of education. The charter schools are essentially free.

samurai_science said:

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oldag941 said:

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The charter should have been "free". I thought charters were publicly funded.

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They are, but they get a lot less money per student. They are usually more efficient and do better across the board, with a few exceptions.

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Most of them do no better than public schools, right?

They also do not have elected boards of trustees from the community nor do they have to adhere to many of the state requirements and mandates. Pseudo private but tax payer funded. And results are all across the board from great to poor.

samurai_science said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

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As spouse of a public school teacher, I know of several charter schools in the area with a lottery because they have so many parents trying to get into them.

So my anecdote cancels yours. Charters that are bad go away, public schools are bad for eternity, its not good.

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Sure your wife loves you denegrating her profession....

samurai_science said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

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As spouse of a public school teacher, I know of several charter schools in the area with a lottery because they have so many parents trying to get into them.

So my anecdote cancels yours. Charters that are bad go away, public schools are bad for eternity, its not good.

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I don't doubt that your experience is real. I was just sharing mine.

As a public school teacher, it's hard not to denigrate it to some extent. There are a lot of good teachers out there but there are some really awful ones and there is essentially nothing being done about it.

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IndividualFreedom said:
It all starts to implode when parents have a choice with their dollars on where their kids go to school.

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It won't implode. It will change but the change you are hoping for is probably not going to be what actually happens.

As a public school teacher, I know of 11 kids that left to go to charters and 8 of them returned.

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Let's find out.