Anyone FOR forgiving student loans?

8,971 Views | 158 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by BCG Disciple
Wyoming Aggie
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I used to be vehemently against it, but I'm coming close to doing a 180 on that.

Let me preface this by saying I'm 40 years old, and I have both my undergraduate degree and my MBA paid off. I say that to acknowledge I wouldn't benefit from student loan forgiveness.

That being said, here is why I switched my stance...

College is a scam that has now been pushed on the last several generations as the only way to succeed in life. Couple that with the fact that many to most college degrees are effectively worthless in the workforce when it comes to landing you the type of employment you need to actually pay off those loans by the time you're in middle age.

Also, there is something fundamentally wrong to me about allowing 17-18 year old kids with no life experience or concept of money to take out tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars. The interest rates, not being able to declare bankruptcy on student debt, the list goes on. To top it off, nobody is telling these kids that college is a bad investment for the vast majority of students.

It's exploitation, plain and simple. It's taking young, naive CHILDREN and coercing them to take on a life a debt slavery that they cannot get out of.

For practically every other instance in life, whether that be taking out a mortgage, a business loan, whatever it may be, you have to be able to prove that you'll be able to pay it back or else a bank won't lend you the money. Not with student loans, though. "Hey kid, you want to be a communications or university studies major? Sure, no problem, here's $100k dollars!"

Anyway, a country's economy thrives by people having purchasing power. The college ponzi scheme is destroying the purchasing power for many in the 20-40 age group.

The system is broken when college graduates can't afford their own place due to overpriced college and runaway inflation that the GOVERNMENT CAUSED. Gee, I wonder why the birth rates are dropping. It's because nobody can afford children with crippling student loans coupled with runaway inflation.

TLDR version: The government built an unbeatable ponzi scheme to take advantage of naive children that have no clue what they are getting themselves into. Furthermore, the crippling debt many cannot pay back is limiting MILLIONS from contributing to the economy and having even half the purchasing power their parents had. The system is broken.
Manhattan
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Yes, and two year associates or two years of bachelors at a public university in a degree applicable to a profession job, accounting, engr, architecture etc should be paid for.
cone
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forgiving the loans takes the colleges off the hook

make the loans dischargeable in bankruptcy
'03ag
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The answer is to stop the scamming. Not doing a lot more of the thing that enabled/caused the scamming
Justin2010
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The only way I'd ever agree to forgive loans if it came with reform to the loan process. If they become dischargeable in bankruptcy and are performed by banks instead of the government, 90% of college related policy problems would solve themselves.
Bexar Ag
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Tax companies who made a bachelors degree a minimum bar for an entry level job
bmc13
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first, they need to fix the issues that caused the mess.
deddog
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You need to forgive nothing.
Let college loans be dischargeable in bankruptcy. That way, folks can take responsibility for their actions (taking a loan) and the lenders take a haircut for handing out loans for useless majors.

You know why Democrats will never agree to this? yes, of course, they don't understand the concept of personal responsiblity, but the bigger reason is that once this happens, all of the useless, commie teacher led, majors will disappear from colleges. No more gender studies majors, no more sociology majors. Whatever will Aiden/Adrianna/They then study?
Yesterday
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No. Because you're giving liberal institutions trillions of dollars that hate me and American values.
cone
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i'd like to hear the progressive case for why the loans shouldn't be dischargeable
deddog
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Manhattan said:

Yes, and two year associates or two years of bachelors at a public university in a degree applicable to a profession job, accounting, engr, architecture etc should be paid for.
Free college
Wyoming Aggie
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Justin2010 said:

The only way I'd ever agree to forgive loans if it came with reform to the loan process. If they become dischargeable in bankruptcy and are performed by banks instead of the government, 90% of college related policy problems would solve themselves.

Agree with you there, my friend.
kag00
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You have a lot of valid criticism about the college system. Forgiving student debt will do nothing to remedy those problems. It will in fact make them worse. Until the universities, the only true definitive and immediate beneficiary of gvt guaranteed student loans, have more accountability then nothing will change. Discharging debt will simply reinforce their profit motive and continue to allow borrowers to make stupid decisions with someone else's money.
Owlagdad
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when will they come up with forgiving black peoples student loans, because the color of their skin prevents them from paying back money owed?
Furious
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I'm for forgiving some of the loans but the pain has to be felt by the universities and not the taxpayers. Nobody is talking about fixing the problem - just writing off the debt. If we forgive loans today, what about everyone who gets a loan tomorrow? Nobody will ever pay their loans back - they'll just wait for the next promise of loan forgiveness.

College tuition is no longer a market. Unlimited free government money means nobody competes on price. You just apply to a school and take out loans for "however much they say it costs" and don't worry too much about it. It's another problem created BY government. The only winners are the schools.

Fix the actual problem and I'm open to talking student loan forgiveness...
PA24
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yes after completing 2 years of military service as a fry cook
Wyoming Aggie
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deddog said:

You need to forgive nothing.
Let college loans be dischargeable in bankruptcy. That way, folks can take responsibility for their actions (taking a loan) and the lenders take a haircut for handing out loans for useless majors.

You know why Democrats will never agree to this? yes, of course, they don't understand the concept of personal responsiblity, but the bigger reason is that once this happens, all of the useless, commie teacher led, majors will disappear from colleges. No more gender studies majors, no more sociology majors. Whatever will Aiden/Adrianna/They then study?


I also agree with this. These people need a way out. Corporations get bailed out everyday for poor decision making yet someone in their late 20's crippled with student loan debt that they'll never be able to pay off can't declare bankruptcy?
doubledog
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Quote:

College is a scam that has now been pushed on the last several generations as the only way to succeed in life.

No College is simply an institution of higher learning. Parents and educators are the ones counseling the students. The only unbalanced recruitment I see is in athletics.

Universities are not for everyone, I think University administrators agree, in fact it is the pressure from the outside sources (political) that force expansion of enrollment beyond that which is feasible.
ChemEng94
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While I agree with many of your points about the scam college is for many students, is it fair that you and I end up paying for it?

I paid for my college and the costs for my children. Now, you think I should pay for a bunch of other people as well?

There is a simple solution to solving this "crisis"; get the government out of the lending business.
2040huck
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deddog said:

You need to forgive nothing.
Let college loans be dischargeable in bankruptcy. That way, folks can take responsibility for their actions (taking a loan) and the lenders take a haircut for handing out loans for useless majors.

You know why Democrats will never agree to this? yes, of course, they don't understand the concept of personal responsiblity, but the bigger reason is that once this happens, all of the useless, commie teacher led, majors will disappear from colleges. No more gender studies majors, no more sociology majors. Whatever will Aiden/Adrianna/They then study?

You think bankruptcy is personal responsibility?
Funky Winkerbean
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Absolutely not. Your debt, no matter the reasoning behind it, is not my responsibility. If the government wants to improve financial viability in young people, educate them on the perils of excessive debt in high school. Do you really think the government should be lecturing us on debt? Look what debt is doing to government and the stability of the dollar.
one safe place
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No. If you borrow the money, pay it back. If you chose a stupid major, chalk it up to a life lesson learned. Just another liberal democrat vote buying scheme.
AgGrad99
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Quote:

College is a scam that has now been pushed on the last several generations as the only way to succeed in life.
I keep hearing this, but I dont buy it.

There are positions you cannot get, and doors that will not open, if you dont have a college degree (and in many cases, a graduate degree). That doesnt make it a scam, but an investment. You aren't going to be a structural engineer, without college. A CPA, an attorney, medical professional, on and on and on.

But there are good investments and bad. Do not get a 200k college degree for a job that pays 35k. That's a dumb decision, and a bad career investment. It's also simply common sense.

And no one ever told me it was the only way to succeed. Just walk around on any given day and you have countless examples of why that isnt true.

All that to say, it's about choice. Personal Responsibility. There are fruitful college degrees, and wasteful ones. There are fruitful jobs that dont require college degrees, and dead-end ones.

Our choices matter.
rynning
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bmc13 said:

first, they need to fix the issues that caused the mess.
You mean make it illegal to for people to get loans they can't pay back with the pursued degree?
Wyoming Aggie
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doubledog said:

Quote:

College is a scam that has now been pushed on the last several generations as the only way to succeed in life.

No College is simply an institution of higher learning. Parents and educators are then ones counseling the students. The only unbalanced recruitment I see is in athletics.

Universities are not for everyone, I think University administrators agree, in fact it is the pressure from the outside sources (political) that force expansion of enrollment beyond that which is feasible.

The problem I have is that these 17-18 year old kids aren't really getting counseled on what's best for them.

College counseling when I was going through it in 2001 was about help with admissions. Never once was I counseled on type of degree and what my earnings potential would be to be able to actually pay off loans.

It was always about, get a degree, any degree, and you'll be a success.
BigOil
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You lost me at "College is a scam"
Maroon Dawn
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Dear OP,

You seem confused about something.

The point of these government loans is not to get kids into college

The point is trap them into a lifetime of crippling debt that the government owns and controls! That way the government can then say "well if you vote Democrat then we'll make sure those loans stay PAUSED!"

Not forgiven. PAUSED. That way they still have leverage over you forever. Fail to vote the way you are told and the financial penalty of paying your loans is activated.

Do you see now why this will never happen the way you think?
Aglaw97
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Other than the themes that college may be overvalued to a degree and that colleges have some culpability in the rampant increases in tuition over the last several decades, there's nothing else in your post I can agree with. And forgiving the loans isn't the right answer to solve a few of the other issues.
richardag
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No, it perpetuates the problem with the selfish desires of the population. It ends up creating a population that only looks internally for that which they think benefits them.

It also results in the extreme surplus of people with degrees that end up not having the ability to obtain employment in that field and are saddled with debt they expect the lower income and middle class to pay for that never attended college.

The student loan program needs to be radically overhauled or eliminated.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
TJaggie14
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I have student loan debt. So selfishly I would like it forgiven. I agree with a lot of the points you make about college being a scheme and not doing a good job to prepare students for careers. I think you should have the option to bankrupt them.

However, I don't think fundamentally that it is a good idea. You took the loan out, you need to pay it back. No one forced you to go. No one forced you to get a degree in underwater basket weaving. It's not right for others to pay for your bad decisions.

Here is the real rub I have. The govt bails out crappy bad businesses for making terrible decisions all the time. So why not bail out the individual that made a crappy bad decision? Also the govt spends stupid amounts of money on worthless things, so why not spend that money on the individual tax payer? Fed loans have been on pause for like the last 3 years. Is that really the cause of the crappy inflation we have going on? Or is it more likely due to pumping the system with tons and tons of cash. The economy didn't grind to a halt because student loans weren't getting paid back, so just eliminate them and move on.
doubledog
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Bexar Ag said:

Tax companies who made a bachelors degree a minimum bar for an entry level job
In the hiring practice a BA/BS is often used to willow out the applications (move from stack A to stack B), not that it is an acceptable way to do things but that is the way it is done.
Wyoming Aggie
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AgGrad99 said:


Quote:

College is a scam that has now been pushed on the last several generations as the only way to succeed in life.
I keep hearing this, but I dont buy it.

There are positions you cannot get, and doors that will not open, if you dont have a college degree (and in many cases, a graduate degree). That doesnt make it a scam, but an investment. You aren't going to be a structural engineer, without college. A CPA, an attorney, medical professional, on and on and on.

But there are good investments and bad. Do not get a 200k college degree for a job that pays 35k. That's a dumb decision, and a bad career investment. It's also simply common sense.

And no one ever told me it was the only way to succeed. Just walk around on any given day and you have countless examples of why that isnt true.

All that to say, it's about choice. Personal Responsibility. There are fruitful college degrees, and wasteful ones. There are fruitful jobs that dont require college degrees, and dead-end ones.

Our choices matter.

Choices do matter. But I draw the line when you lie and coerce children into believing just getting a college degree is the key to success without actually educating them on their degree options, their earnings potential with said degree, etc.

I'm sorry, but I'd wager most kids never get that type of counseling.

Anyway, again, choices do matter, but the ponzi scheme is targeting children that really don't know any better. That's exploitation.
Owlagdad
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Take the money out of the college endowment.. Colleges take govt backed tuition loans, and sit on pile of money, and expect others to bail their ass out?
cone
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the threat of bankruptcy is absolutely the fiduciary responsibility of the lender

why are they being let off the hook?
Tom Kazansky 2012
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cone said:

forgiving the loans takes the colleges off the hook

make the loans dischargeable in bankruptcy
 
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